Intellectual Rejection

O

Oort

Registered Member
More and more often I seem to be noticing the lack of acceptance towards intellectualism and artistic expressiveness from the masses within society. People have begun to put people down for trying to pursue a job/degree that is not soully focused on annual pay. There are numerous studies on these unfortunate turn of events and it seems to explain a lot about how unhappy people are in their own lives.

Just thought I would state the obvious and see what you guys may think about what could come in the future if this stance on intellectualism continues. I found this to be a very important issue considering it effects us all and could be quite detrimental in the not-so-far future.
 
Oort,

Yes I agree, currently there does seem to be a downhill race towards increasing materialism. This is unfortunate, but I hope once enough people have become saturated with such things that the pendulum will swing the other way and we may eventually see an appreciation for the more subtle things in life.

Cris
 
Where to begin....

Most people today see it that if you're not making money then they think they are supporting you. In the rat race of today that working for the joy of what you desire seems to have been lost. Amazing what some people will put up with for the dollar...
 
I don't know about that.

I don't think there has been a massive swing towards materalism.

While people spend money on stupid things, and have most they really don't need. I don't think everyone is soley devoted to materials, family, and other important aspects usually hold up to the mass market community.
 
Curly, I hope you're right. But things do seem different these days. I guess it's true for every generation, but it just seems like we were a lot less commercial and materialistic 20 or 30 years ago, as a society. The things we needed to be happy were less complicated, and I think less selfish in nature. We used to sit around the radio, the whole family, listening to the "Mystery Theatre" and that was better than any rented video or Playstation game. As a kid, my day was made if I found a good stick to whittle with my pocket knife. What's happened!? What will it take to entertain our kids when they're adults. Better illegal drugs? Why are kids resorting to things like Ecstasy for recreation? People are essentially the same, right? It's just the circumstances that have changed, right? How can it all be so different now, and most importantly, what's next?! Will kids ever again be happy with a pair of scates or a kite for Christmas? Or laying in the freshly cut lawn watching dragonflies? Things are quite different now, but I surely don't know why.
 
The reason we are in a more materalistic period now is because we had the best economy for eight years in American history. So naturally we can afford better things, and more of them.

While we've just exited the nineteen nineties I think one of the labels will be the Corporate Decade. A natural follow up to the decade of excess. We see now everything being sponsored by a corporation, stadiums, TV shows, even some movies.

I think that society in all forms of multimedia are nearing the saturation point of fakness, and corporate strangleholds on everything. I predict that this decade will become an anti-corporate/money decade to a far extent. I'm not saying that my generation will become neo-hippies but I think there will be a movement away from excess and corporate sponsorship of everything.

There are only so many, Coca Cola Instant Replays a man can take.
 
My 2 cents

I believe there is a swing towards materialism, but it is fueled by a growing sense of "I want to belong". I have noticed people tend to identify themselves by their possessions. In my little corner of society, people are interested in what kind of computer you use. Are you a PC or a Mac? (Those are the only two that matter. All others are snickered at.) Mac people tend to congregate in their own little corner while PC people congregate in another, each side feeling that they have at least something in common with the person standing next to them. (There was a brief segregation between Windows and Linux users, but too many cross-platform systems got out there.)

The whole Chevy/Ford thing is another fine example of people identifying themselves according to the products they buy. I can't count the number of times I have been confronted by "Ford people" just because I have a Chevy. They try to keep it friendly enough, but it soon turns into an all-out spoiling for a fight. I ususally end up telling them to grow up. I drive a Chevy just because I happened to be able to get one. I am not one of the "Chevy people". [For those of you who may not be familiar with this phenomena, Ford and Chevrolet have been rivals for the performance automobile market for years. This rivalry has filtered down to the consumers who buy their products. If you were to ask a Ford man what he has against Chevy, all he can say is "They suck." The same goes for a Chevy man. Both sides forget that Ford produced a fine car in the Mustang, and Chevy has produced a fine car in the Corvette. Both cars have their pros and cons.]

I don't know how things are in other countries, but here in America, we have an almost total lack of cultural roots. We make up for that by our consumerism. With a near collapse of the borders, Americans are desperately shoring up their identities, lest we lose our very way of life...

OKAY! ALL YOU NATIVE AMERICANS CAN STOP LAUGHING NOW!

against what amounts to a gradual invasion of our country.

Well, that's my 2 cents (US currency) worth.
 
Since everyone is pitching in theirs let me add my 2¢ to the growing pile. (There's gotta be bucket around here for my retirement fund)

For as long as I can remember product identification with the consumer has always been something corporate America has tried to get going. If they get you to buy their product then they think that consumer loyality will encourage you to buy their product again. Well I had a falling out with the automotive manufactures and it is still not on good grounds. Any time that junk like that of the mid and late 70's can be put on the market and it is expected that Joe Blow will be happy with that then there is a rat in the wood pile...and it has been dead for more than a few days! The auto manufactures of America lost my business and a good bit of their market share over it. It is not that I am brand loyal, I simply want a good product at a reasonable cost. And once again corporate America is getting greedy. Ever try to work on your car anymore? There isn't a lot that shade tree mechanic can actually do. Not with out more money spent in equipment than it is worth.

You can see it in the products you buy today. Ever notice that candy bar seems to get a little smaller? Or that a Coke doesn't taste like a Coke of 15 years ago?

Badfish, man you drag back some memories I hadn't remembered since who flung the clod. Thank you.
 
Might as well get mine in, 2 cents that is.
I just think it's that whole keeping up with the Jones's mentality.
Oxygen
I drive a 1973 AMC Javelin.:cool: :D
 
Well is it that big of a deal if people like the Bowtie (Chevy), or the Blue Oval (Ford). Its a matter of oppinion and likeness. American's have always identified themselves with products or companies that seem to reflect themselves. It's something interestingly unique about our society, but I don't think its neccesicarily a bad thing.

Maybe someone likes Ford cars because of a good history, A plan, or maybe they don't buy a foreign car because they belong to the UAW.

Really being a Pepsi or Coke family doesn't make you better than the other, but it does make us unique from some other countries. Do the Vietnamiese have white rice or brown rice families?
 
Re:

I think that you guys are getting slightly off the point. I think many of these social separations can be closed if people we're to just look at many of these situations logically (Socrates) and openminded. In order for this to actually take place there has to be a major shift in society to respect/accept intellegence (or just eachother), whether this be from the adverage man or a professor. I think one thing that binds all humans together is our mental capability. If we all gave ourselves a chance to develope this basic level of intellegance people might be able to see eye to eye again and would understand that there really isnt much of a difference between us.

All of these other minor details are just a product of illogical thinking (materialism). Many of these replys about products really could be easily solved just by asking ourselves what are the necessities of life and am I straying from the basic threads of life too much.

Chevy vs Ford, whats the difference, the people who have these arguments are normally shallow and hollow people who know nothing else. If they really thought that one was better than the other they could just converse about what the pro's and con's were of either side. Same with Mac and PC. But what it really comes down to is, its that persons choice to drive that car or to have that computer and there is no need for judgement, even thought it is very natural to do so. If it isnt the most optimum then thats their loss. If you care to educate them on why, then do so. Keep in mind these are only objects.

Call be idealistic but these are my thoughts, sorry for being so philosophical.
 
No problem with being philosophical. I don't claim that the segregation of people based on what they own is a valid pretext for organizing society, in fact I've riled up many a Ford owner by not taking the bait, but it's one of the ways people try to get a sense of belonging to something larger. I think this urge would be better served if they realized that they already belong to something larger. We belong not only to ourselves but to our families, our communities, our nations, our world, and to the human race as a whole. Perhaps if we took a little more pride and dignity in that, we might see an overall improvement of the human condition.
 
I can only afford 1 cent, and here it is:

Intellectual Rejection ? Why do you say that? There are more magazines than ever before. More books, Barnes Noble, access to every newspaper and most magazines online free except WSJ and Economist (you have to pay to get the good stuff), Cable, Satellite, 100s of channels, A lot of schools/ colleges, evening classes, art classes, organized travel tours, discovery channel, history channel, AMC, more meuseum, art fairs, fashion shows, Hollywood....

Also we have credit cards in every color (was not much 30 years ago) and hence buy now pay later, more products, innovation, restaurants, Turkish food disguised as Greek food, Maxim's in Beijing, gourmet cooks on television, PhDs in every subject, Honorary PhDs, Faux PhDs, Super Collider, Babylon 5, Galaxy Quest, Benny Hill, Farscape, Gene annotation, Proteomics, Peptides, Nanotechnology, Quantum computing, Prozac, Zoloft, Zantac, Pepto Bismol.....

Intellectual Rejection ? I don't think so. May be a little...depending on the company you keep....
 
Here's a reply from a "froggy" newcomer.
I had a quick glance at your discussion. Let me telle you about us Frenchies about "materialities".
Here, the question is not betwwen having a Mac or a PC, but having a computer (of ANY kind.... we don't mind).
About cars : a lot of people achieve a decent life without a driving licence (particularly in great cities like Paris when the Urban means of transport are quite good, and it would be crazy to drive a car because the town is a bit cramped, and if you have a car you might not be able to park it). Only outside great cities, it is necessary to drive : but we generally buy cars only because we have to (although, of course, more and more people are beginning to pay attention to the brand).
Well : I do hope you will accept me in your discussions, I shall tell you lots of things about our own culture -which is, as you know, slightly different from yours; (for instance, some of us have the bad habit to burn down McDonald's - or, as I can deplore as an English teacher REFUSE to learn the language of those "damned imperialists". (which doesn't prevent them from refusing to learn latin either).
Fran.
 
Hi Fran:

Welcome to sciforums. Personally I know, very little about french culture, even though I live in a french dominated area (Louisiana was purchased from France). The laws are screwed up here, so not much business. The excuse is it is Napoleonic law that has not been changed to 21st century.

Anyway, let us know more about French view of the world.
 
Hi !
What is "screwed up" ? Louisiana : more American than French. At all events, a good bargain, and Napoleon was such a fool !
Do you know "cajun" ? I love "the Creedence" and particularly "born in the Bayou". What would you like to know about us Frenchies ? I'll tell you all I can tell (if not "secret defense").
As for me : I teach your language to young "froggies"; let me know about you too.
PS : have you ever smelt or tasted a goo piece of "camembert" ?
Bye, Fran.
 
Personally I think that materialmism has grown and money has become more and more important to the people. Ofcourse other values have not perished compleatly, family is still wery important and everyone haven´t sold theyr ideology or sacrificed theyr happiness for money.

If you look materialism as a bad thing, then perhaps western countries have been the center of that for a long time... we have always tried to get our hand into the riches (often to the riches of others).
Europe invaded a lot of countries and exploited them. But there has also been HUGE amounts of culture in Europe and religion has been important for us as well.

So religion, culture and philosophy has been important for western countries, not just wealth and power.

But it does worry and annoy me as economy is becoming more and more important every day... technologically and economically we are growing faster and faster... but we have perhaps lost our direction and sense of moderation.

On the other hand... perhaps we are just looking at the big picture and not looking at individuals... the job of nations today is to grow and serve its citizens (atleast the job of western nations) and that is just what they are doing. Perhaps we as humans have evolved into that point, in which the nations won´t try to direct our philosophy and values, but they let us define ourselves... but as we have taken our own point of view, we have lost unity and so altough it would seem that most of us are materialistic people, we are all thinking... but other people don´t notice that... they just notice the new car or expensive whatch etc. And so that other person thinks that all the other people are unphilosophical materialists and ask that are they the only ones thinking today. It is much easier to look at the materialistic things of people, than try to find out about theyr "inner-universe" etc.
 
If I may make some more groundless conclusions :) :

Perhpas when we are afraid to tap on other peoples shoulder and ask about theyr opinion on philosophical topics... we harm everyone. Because usually talking, even arguing evolves our opinions... we notice things which we haven´t noticed before etc. our own point of view doesn´t evolve... and so we all just have a few ideas or an ideology which could be a lot better, more complete, if we would only discuss with people.

BUT this doesn´t ofcourse happen always... some people do discuss and people can be philosophically wery "evolved", I don´t mean to generalize but I´m quite sure that there are atleast few cases like this.

It would also perhpas be better if we would discuss with other kinds of people. When I first started to think about philosophical things seriously, I also became an atheist and I thought that I knew what was good and right and how people should live etc. But as I discussed with religious people (mostly christians) my opinions evolved quite a bit... and today I think that I have evolved quite a lot from those times, even though I am still an atheist.

Net is a great invention in a way that we don´t have to be so close to people or reveal our true identity... it gives people security and courage to be more open and discuss.
 
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