''Inseparable''

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Reiku

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I can't help but have a bit of ego about me when I say, superluminal is wrong. In physics, we say that ''time'' is inseparable from ''space''

He says that this doesn't mean that are the same somehow.

So tell me, if physics says that time and space are inseparable, then why do we also say the are the same thing?
 
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Why are you posting this in linguistics?

[Mod note: Because he thought I didn't have enough to do today. There's nothing I enjoy more on a pleasant Sunday after a holiday than cleaning up a flame war.

I don't mind any discussion of words as long as it turns into an interesting discussion. But I don't tolerate flaming.]
 
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First, space and time are the same thing. Ben will confirm this...

Ben.

I posted this here, because it was my choice of wording that was in question. I am simplyshowing that this is what physicists say and do mean. We both know this.
 
Reiku said:
First, space and time are the same thing. Ben will confirm this...

Ben.

I posted this here, because it was my choice of wording that was in question. I am simplyshowing that this is what physicists say and do mean. We both know this.
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This is just plain silly. There was a time when mankind could not break the chemical bonds of of compounds - iron oxide (iron ore), for example. In no way does that mean that the oxygen and iron atoms were the "same" things just because they were inseparable.

Neither physics, logic nor linguistics are your strong suit.
 
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Find it interesting and note, that when I said,

''First, space and time are the same thing. Ben will confirm this...''

Give evidence to suggest I am wrong. Not saying it's nonesense. It's a well-known fragmentation in relativity.
 
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Reiku, I remember Ben and others objecting to your statement that matter and spacetime were the same thing, that matter was an excitation of spacetime. You went on to claim that Einstein stated if all energy and matter were removed from the universe, spacetime would disappear.

I have something for you to think about. Einstein introduced the cosmological constant into GR's field equations. The cosmological constant manifests itself as a constant average curvature of empty spacetime. I started to post this in the other thread, but Ben locked the thread while I was writing the post.
 
Actually, he disagreed that spacetime + matter-energy was interdependant. He will agree however that space and time are inseprable.

I still hold to the energy-matter-spacetime as well.
 
[Mod note: I have deleted the text of this posting to avoid a flame war. But the sentiment expressed was correct. Will everyone please respect the scientific method at all times. At the very least, try to be logical and consistent leave personalities out of it. You will find the enforcement of that principle to be particularly zealous in Linguistics.]
 
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Reiku said:
Actually, he disagreed that spacetime + matter-energy was interdependant. He will agree however that space and time are inseparable. I still hold to the energy-matter-spacetime as well.
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So, your OP was poorly stated? Are we still talking about the energy-matter-spacetime thing?
 
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It is my view that the cosmological constant is an attempt to describe an effect of the Dirac sea, the ZPE, the aether, the Dark energy or whatever one wishes to call spacetime. The cosmological constant describes the accelerating expansion of spacetime. Matter and energy cause further distortions of spacetime. In my view, matter and spacetime are not the same thing, though matter can sometimes arise from spacetime through pair production. I cannot, however, claim my view is the 'correct' one, only that it seems logical to me.

And, uh, I apologise if I have taken this thread too far from your OP, but I saw it as intimately related.
 
Reiku, please post the famous spacetime-mass/energy relation. I will accept the seminal paper or the equation that shows this.

Note:

After ten years of arduous intellectual searching, in 1915, Einstein succeeded, finally, in translating his profound physical intuition about Nature into a rigorous mathematical theory of free motion in curved spacetimes. Thus was born the general theory of relativity. Einstein's equations

Gmn = -(8pG/c2)Tmn
connect matter and energy (the right-hand side) with the geometry of spacetime (the left-hand side).
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Source:
http://www.physics.fsu.edu/Courses/Spring98/AST3033/Relativity/GeneralRelativity.htm

This is NOT a statement of equivalence between mass-energy and spacetime. Just as the simpler but even more well known F= ma (which connects force, mass, and acceleration) is in no way a statement of equivalence of mass with force or acceleration.

Again, newtons laws describe how a ball on a rubber sheet will deform the sheet. They in no way indicate that the ball itself is made of "rubber sheet".

See?
 
No I don't see.

All I know, is that spacetime are codependent, and that space itself is a physical substance, therefore it must also have an energy. The spacetime tensor equations describe distortions, which are themselves just matter, energy and gravity, which turns out to be a geometrical design in relative standards.

I have explained this a million times. I have even shown the math. How many times will one need to do this?
 
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Space, energy, time and matter are inseparable, and in quantized mathematics, all of the one thing, as predicted by relativity. Quantization hasn't yet been accomplished, but relativity has been proven to be 99% accurate to all standard tests.
 
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Reiku said:
No i don't see.
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I know.

All i know, is that spacetime are codependant,
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RIght.

and that space itself is a physical substence,
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You then are the only one that does. Pleas share this breakthrough with the scientific community and stop wasting time here. Hurry!

...describe disortions, which are themselves just matter,
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No. The equations say no such thing.

I have explained this a million times. I have even shown the math. How many times will one need to do this?
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No. You pasted the general form of the general relativistic tensor. This says NOTHING about spacetime and mass-energy being equivalent.
 
Reiku said:
Space, energy, time and matter are inseprable,
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No. mass-energy distorts spacetime. That's all the equations say. Being connected in a causal way implies no "equivalence". Please look up the word "equivalence".

and in quantized mathematics, all of the one thing, as predicted by relativity.
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No. Jibberish.

...but relativity has been proven to be 99% accurate to all standard tests.
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No. At least 99.9998% in the most sensitive tests.
 
Yes, the equations do say that matter is distortions, just as much as the distortions are the matter. If one thing equals another, it means the same in reverse... a = b and b = a.

Space is a physical realm, as it spontaneously bubbles out diffused matter.

And the tensor equation means everything. Another thing you are blind to.

S = T = M = E
 
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Reiku said:
Yes, the equations do say that matter is distortions, just as much as the distortions are the matter.
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No. Wrong again. Mass-energy causes distortions in the spacetime continuum.
Space is a physical realm, as it spontaneously bubbles out diffused matter.
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No, it dosen't. If you are referring to the existence of virtual particle pairs and the quantum effect called the Casimir effect (force), then you are misinterpreting it. The cosmic balance sheet for the conservation of mass is balanced. Space does not "bubble out" real matter.

See, I would ban you outright for this, but that's just me. I'm not a mod. And for good reason. No tolerance. You should send a group thank-you to them for letting you hang out this long.
 
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Well you are all smarter then me....I quit highschool. lol
Jeez and to think I don't even use spellcheck :eek:
 
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