just me said: ↑
If an instant can exist before forever in the past, infinite time could have begun in that instant.
How does this ( highlighted ) make sense ?
just me said: ↑
If an instant can exist before forever in the past, infinite time could have begun in that instant.
Okay. I'll bite.
1. Assume there is an infinite past.
2. An infinite past means that for every instant in time there is an earlier instant.
3. Assume there is a beginning that happened at a particular instant in time.
4. A beginning is an instant in time prior to which there are no instants in time.
5. By (2), there must be an instant in time earlier than the time of the beginning.
6. However, (5) contradicts (4).
7. Therefore, if all of the above is valid, then there can be no infinite past with a beginning, since the notion that both things can exist simultaneously leads to contradiction - a logical impossibility.
I think that's a "proper" argument.
The argument can be attacked on several fronts, of course. One way would be to claim that (3) is false, and that the "beginning" can be at an indetermine time rather than representing a fixed instant in time. Another is to object to one or both of the definitions in (2) and (4).
How does this ( highlighted ) make sense ?
I always imagined that an infinity without time translates into a single instant of "now" containing all abstract universal mathematical potentials in a singularity and a resulting mathematical imperative for expression via a mega-quantum event AKA Big Bang.just me said:
If an instant can exist before forever in the past, infinite time could have begun in that instant.
New
just me said:
If an instant can exist before forever in the past, infinite time could have begun in that instant.
I always imagined that an infinity without time translates into a single instant of "now" containing all abstract universal mathematical potentials in a singularity and a resulting mathematical imperative for expression via a mega-quantum event AKA Big Bang.
Ok, that'll stir the pot, no doubt.
No doubt to your last statement .
Above that , so a singularity results in a ; mega-quantum event .
Explain further . This .
Write4U said: ↑
I always imagined that an infinity without time translates into a single instant of "now" containing all abstract universal mathematical potentials in a singularity and a resulting mathematical imperative for expression via a mega-quantum event AKA Big Bang.
Ok, that'll stir the pot, no doubt.
Some people seem to view the notion of an infinite past with a beginning as impossible. Anyone can argue this impossibility properly?
EB
If the OP had included a time metric like a second or hour etc and asked whether an infinite number of past hours could have a beginning then no, it is not logically possible. However what makes it intriguing is that every arbitrary second or hour ( infinitely finite moment) could be stated as having a beginning and an end. Yet each remain infinite, made up of infinitesimal lengths of time.Speakpigeon said: ↑
Some people seem to view the notion of an infinite past with a beginning as impossible. Anyone can argue this impossibility properly?
EB
Infinity condensed in a single instant, a singularity. Seems to me something 's gotta give. Boom.To add , physically , how is the singularity possible ? What came before the singularity ?
river said: ↑
To add , physically , how is the singularity possible ? What came before the singularity ?
Infinity condensed in a single instant, a singularity. Seems to me something 's gotta give. Boom.
I read , but don't understand .
So infinity condensed ? ( what infinity is condensed in a single instant ? ) Explain in-depth.
Actually, in a timeless condition any first measurable instant of time associated change is the begining of time.So an infinite past can have an infinite number of beginnings and ends
What is a timeless potential?First, in a timeless potential...
An action constitutes a timeframe? Please explain.... any emergent dynamic action constitutes the first instance of a emergent timeframe associated with that dynamic action.
Please define "dynamic instant".When there is no prior time, every dynamic instant would be the first instant.
Matter is drawn into black holes. I'm not so sure about "blocks of spacetime". What is a block of spacetime? I wasn't aware that it came in blocks.Think of a black hole, where entire blocks of spacetime are drawn in and condensed into incredibly massive patterns at the center of the BH.
What does that even mean?Assuming that infinity has potential...
Intrinsic to what?..., an intrinsic abstract quality with a value.
Please explain how a value can collapse. While you're at it, please define "value", because you seem to be using that word in a strange way.Imagine this value collapsing into itself, somewhat similar as a BH and condensing this value into a dynamic infinitely dense singularity.
If it's a fission bomb, the aim is to construct a critical mass, so as to enable a nuclear chain reaction. If it's a fusion bomb, the aim is usually to compress and heat the material sufficiently for fusion to occur.An atom bomb can only be exploded by creating an inward explosion which starts the nuclear reaction.
Mathematics is an abstraction. How can anything mathematical cause a real-world physical event?I see this mathematical function of collapse as being causal to the origin of the BB.
Infinity is a sort of number, isn't it? One of those mathematical abstractions. How can a number collapse? What would the collapse of the number 17 look like?Infinity collapsing into itself ...
Hypotheses to explain what?I know this is speculative, but are there any alternative hypotheses?
This sounds like complete nonsense.Before then there is no time, i.e. during any first change, timelessness (0) resolves in to a Fibonaccy sequence. (0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, etc.)
BINGO!First, in a timeless potential any emergent dynamic action constitutes the first instance of a emergent timeframe associated with that dynamic action. When there is no prior time, every dynamic instant would be the first instant.
Think of a black hole, where entire blocks of spacetime are drawn in and condensed into incredibly massive patterns at the center of the BH.
Assuming that infinity has potential, an intrinsic abstract quality with a value. Imagine this value collapsing into itself, somewhat similar as a BH and condensing this value into a dynamic infinitely dense singularity.
An atom bomb can only be exploded by creating an inward explosion which starts the nuclear reaction. I see this mathematical function of collapse as being causal to the origin of the BB. An inward collapse, creating an immeasurably dense singularity and subsequently violent expansion as chaotic energetic spacetime.
Infinity collapsing into itself and creating a mega-quantum event the BB, and the creation of all the potential physical properties of the spacetime. During cooling, the formation of mass in accordance to E = Mc^2
I know this is speculative, but are there any alternative hypotheses? If so, I want to see them.
But nothing to replace my proposals, right? It's easy to say Bingo when you have nothing else to offer.BINGO!
BINGO!
BINGO!
BINGO!
The definition of potential is "that which may become reality", i.e. potential is not physical and therefore not causal to the emergence of time.W4U said; First, in a timeless potential...
James R said; What is a timeless potential?
IMO, time emerges as a result of duration of change (action). In a completely static universe, time would not existW4U said:... any emergent dynamic action constitutes the first instance of a emergent timeframe associated with that dynamic action.
JR said: An action constitutes a timeframe? Please explain.
Sorry, that should read dynamic action. An instantiation (emergence) of time in relation to a dynamic action.W4U said; When there is no prior time, every dynamic instant would be causal to the first instant of time associated with that action.
JR said: Please define "dynamic instant".
I suspect that entire areas of spacetime itself are drawn into a BH. Hence my use of "blocks".W4U said: Think of a black hole, where entire blocks of spacetime are drawn in and condensed into incredibly massive patterns at the center of the BH.
JR said: Matter is drawn into black holes. I'm not so sure about "blocks of spacetime". What is a block of spacetime? I wasn't aware that it came in blocks.
IMO, potential is a mathematical latency contained in everything regardless of size, from Infinity to Planck scale. I see Pi and Phi as infinite potentials.W4U said: Assuming that infinity has potential...
JR said: What does that even mean?
Everything.Please define "infinity" and "potential".
W4U said:..., an intrinsic abstract quality with a value.
JR said: Intrinsic to what?
A quality is a measurement with a specific value, i.e. the color quality of red consists of a mathematical valueJR said: How can a quality have a value? Please explain.
Value = a quality that can be measured mathematically as a real property or as a potential.W4U said; Imagine this value collapsing into itself, somewhat similar as a BH and condensing this value into a dynamic infinitely dense singularity.
JR said: Please explain how a value can collapse. While you're at it, please define "value", because you seem to be using that word in a strange way.
W4U said: An atom bomb can only be exploded by creating an inward explosion which starts the nuclear reaction.
JR said; If it's a fission bomb, the aim is to construct a critical mass, so as to enable a nuclear chain reaction. If it's a fusion bomb, the aim is usually to compress and heat the material sufficiently for fusion to occur.
Collapse from one physical state into another pysical state is a mathematical function.W4U said: I see this mathematical function of collapse as being causal to the origin of the BB.
JR said: Mathematics is an abstraction. How can anything mathematical cause a real-world physical event?
Throw a 17 lb massive rock in a BH and watch it become infinitely small while maintaining its mathematical value.W4U said; Infinity collapsing into itself ...
JR said: Infinity is a sort of number, isn't it? One of those mathematical abstractions. How can a number collapse? What would the collapse of the number 17 look like?
The causality of the BB. Please note that I am not advocating for an motivated supernatural intelligence. It is my attemp to seek a scientific explanation for the event, if it had any causality at all, which to me it should have.W4U said; I know this is speculative, but are there any alternative hypotheses?
JR said: Hypotheses to explain what?
Hehe,W4U said: Before then there is no time, i.e. during any first change, timelessness (0) resolves in to a Fibonaccy sequence. (0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, etc.)
JR said: This sounds like complete nonsense. Please explain how and why, in detail.W4U
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_numberIn mathematics, the Fibonacci numbers, commonly denoted Fn, form a sequence, called the Fibonacci sequence, such that each number is the sum of the two preceding ones, starting from 0 and 1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implicit_function_theoremIn mathematics, more specifically in multivariable calculus, the implicit function theorem[1] is a tool that allows relations to be converted to functions of several real variables. It does so by representing the relation as the graph of a function. There may not be a single function whose graph can represent the entire relation, but there may be such a function on a restriction of the domain of the relation. The implicit function theorem gives a sufficient condition to ensure that there is such a function.
Ok, I'm sure this is full of errors.
I am asking for a tolerant examination of possible logical implications of these thoughts.
I am here to learn, not to instruct.