I'm ashamed of some of my fellow Australians
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Krieg Order
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Gustav said:
It looks like you want to live in a Communist totalitarian government, where multiculturalism will have to be enforced, as YOU admitted.
In this kind of totalitarian enviroment, you seem to think you can get everyone to think EXACTLY the same, which is the only way you can avoid offending, typical PC banter.
Interesting, however you didnt need to tell me this. I already knew that this was the kind of world Social Marxists wanted.
We already have millions of immigrants who dont speak english IN Western nations. The people that immigrate to Western nations,
do not fully assimilate but actually keep their old cultural values and ways, which you seem to want to destroy.
you are admitting that European culture is extremely influential and superior, with this statement which I EXPECTED you to make.
No, humans do not have the same values and beliefs,regardless of secular humanism, but that might be news to YOU.
You cant seriously be suggesting that all cultures and peoples have the same values and beliefs, if this was so we wouldnt have all of the conflict in our modern day world.
Tell me that Radical Islamist societies have the same principles as Secular or Christian ones.
So we are going to teach about all of the cultures of the world, yet not emphasize ANY one of them, thus leaving a cultureless society.
A society relies on certain belief systems and values, this will eventually be A PROBLEM when people come into conflict with each other.
Right, good luck convincing Christian Fundamentalists and Radical Islamists to hold hands with each other, my friend.
Can you give me historical examples of this "system" of you'res working? or is it another ridiculous liberal dream???
Do you know how you will implement this social marxist dictatorship? or are you just being another delusional liberal?
Krieg Order said:
come now
what i see here is an individual getting hung up on slogans, seemingly unwilling to consider the matter in ways that do not involve a mindless knee jerk reaction. allow me to elaborate on a few of the principles that i espouse...
* A conviction that dogmas, ideologies and traditions, whether religious, political or social, must be weighed and tested by each individual and not simply accepted on faith.
* Commitment to the use of critical reason, factual evidence, and scientific methods of inquiry, rather than faith and mysticism, in seeking solutions to human problems and answers to important human questions.
* A primary concern with fulfillment, growth, and creativity for both the individual and humankind in general.
* A constant search for objective truth, with the understanding that new knowledge and experience constantly alter our imperfect perception of it.
* A concern for this life and a commitment to making it meaningful through better understanding of ourselves, our history, our intellectual and artistic achievements, and the outlooks of those who differ from us.
* A search for viable individual, social and political principles of ethical conduct, judging them on their ability to enhance human well-being and individual responsibility.
* A conviction that with reason, an open marketplace of ideas, good will, and tolerance, progress can be made in building a better world for ourselves and our children. (Fritz Stevens, Edward Tabash, Tom Hill, Mary Ellen Sikes, and Tom Flynn.)
i must qualify the 2nd point
if faith and mysticism works for anyone, i say go for it. if prayer puts food on ones table....lucky you. if spiritual beings want to party, tell them its byob. nothing is dismissed out of hand.
so
we have some actual meat on the table
voice your objections
i find it strange that culture should be treated with such overblown and exaggerated importance . i find it even stranger that it is used as an identifier. as far as i am concerned, food is food, clothes are clothes, language is simply a form of communication, people are people....etc
all that concerns me is utility and efficiency. aesthetics is always secondary. of course, that statement assumes that what is efficient is not pleasant. it really need not be the case
Gustav said:
But what are you going to do when others do NOT accept/abide by those principles in your little dreamworld? Or what if there are conflicts between individuals over those principles?
Gustav said:
But others do NOT find it so strange. So if that's the case, then how do you deal with in in your little dreamworld? Do you force people to accept your ideals/principles?
Those "principles" that you've outlined have been in existence for millions of years, yet the world is still experiencing problems, conflicts, racism, discrimination, hatred, wars, etc. Why do you think that you can just make those statements, and they all go away and the world becomes full of peace and love and bounty?
Baron Max
Baron Max said:
silly little max
allow me to demonstrate social evolution thru a very simple example
baron max: circa 10000 bc bashes woman with club and fornicates
baron max: circa 2005 ad bashes woman with club, fornicates and goes to jail
ja, that simple.
now, rather than talk in ambiguities, give me a specific conflict(s), and lets discuss
Baron Max said:
strawman, an aside indicating a personal idiosyncracy has nothing to do with the advocacy of cultural repression. yet, a culture that promotes a hacking of heads due to a misguided sense of honor will invariably find its proponents familiar with, and in close proximity to, the justice system
that is how it is now, that is how it is in the real world
why do you not know this?
Baron Max said:
another stinking strawman. retarted reasoning. full blown senility
i piss on all of them
Gustav said:
Well, sure ....but look how fuckin' long it took for that to happen!! As I see it, that change took place in a period of over 12,000 years! ...yet you can't even see that!
You act like it's all supposed to happen instantly, curing the world of all problems and conflicts ....INSTANTLY. And that's precisely why I call your "principles" nothing but a silly, childish dreamworld. Idealism is a wonderful thing ...but it takes a helluva lot of realism to make it all work. And you don't consider reality at all ...so you, like most idealists, will fail miserably.
Baron Max
Krieg Order said:
in that case, i am glad not to have disappointed.
you obviously do not have a clue about the dynamics of language acquisition in relation to immigration issues
*the recent immigrant does have a hard time coping but the next generation is usually fluent.
*most countries teach english as a 2nd language. the assumption of course, is that a potential immigrant did indeed go to school
*countries vary in the ways in which they assimilate foreigners. some throw them in a ghetto, others open doors and let them loose
*speaking the language of an adopted country should not imply a loss of the original culture and traditions. nor does it preclude the fact that bilingualism is a common facet of immigrant populations.
*i would however expect that most traces of a native culture to disappear within a number of generations. for instance, we do not have italian speaking americans bemoaning the loss of their culture. perhaps the ones who got off the boat did but no one gives a shit now. they have room to express themselves in the private and public arenas without fear of harassment.
*the french kids of algerian descent that rioted probably were fluent only in french
now a few pointers on why the ways of modern civilization is indeed superior to the old world shit
we have thrown off excess baggage
like jesus
like rituals
like formalities
like mythology
our culture consists of a series of endless fads, none of which are taken seriously (except perhaps by teens)
what we do focus on is our work, vacations and a quest for new knowledge. we understand impermanance and make the best of what we have. above all, we look to the future.
and it looks great
a word of caution tho. you have to be in the bus to come along for the ride and hopefully....throw in your 2 cents
Krieg Order said:
i think the easiest way to deal with this is to speak in specifics. why dont you offer up some examples?
understand that i will not consider any bogus comparisons
in modern times, there has been one "radical islamist" society... afghanistan. i think of it as an aberration rather than the norm. it was an exceptional turn of events tho not entirely unpredictable. in the same vein, there are many that promote repressive practices but these tend to be, at this time, at the fringes of society.. it might be wahhabism in the middle east or evangelicalism in america, they still are few in number
since most buy into sensationalism, what goes unnoticed is that most majorities in any society are actually quite moderate in their outlook and viewpoints.
ja, boring and quite humdrum
secondly, what is so special about the fact that there is conflict? most do tend to be amicably resolved.
of course, if some nut argues that he has a right to violate another's rights and goes on to do just that..........i'll shoot the fucker myself.
Krieg Order said:
well genius
do expand
i wish to learn
Krieg Order said:
actually kid
all you gotta do is look around
the statements are enshrined in constitutions and bills all over the world
we just wait for the masses of humanity to catch up and get with the program
as for this "system", it is, i think fairly unique. it is the culmination and culling of useful knowledge acquired from the systems of govt of the past. from being ruled by the descendants of gods, priestly kings, feudal overloads, constitutional monarchies to representative govt's, we are constantly revising the "system" in an attempt to give all...... a fair shake.
funny that i am supposed to be promoting a utopia
look around
this shit aint nothing new
Different cultures don't mix. What's happening in Australia is a response to a Lebanese crime wave of the past decade:
Priest describes how in 2001, in a Muslim dominated area of Sydney two policemen stopped a car containing three well-known Middle Eastern men to search for stolen property. As the police carried out their search they were physically threatened and the three men claimed they were going to track them down, kill them and then rape their girlfriends.
According to Priest, it didn’t end there. As the Sydney police called for backup the three men used their mobile phones to call their associates, and within minutes, 20 Middle Eastern men arrived on the scene. They punched and pushed the police and damaged state vehicles. The police retreated and the gang followed them to the police station where they intimidated staff, damaged property and held the police station hostage.
[racist propaganda removed]
Priest describes how in 2001, in a Muslim dominated area of Sydney two policemen stopped a car containing three well-known Middle Eastern men to search for stolen property. As the police carried out their search they were physically threatened and the three men claimed they were going to track them down, kill them and then rape their girlfriends.
According to Priest, it didn’t end there. As the Sydney police called for backup the three men used their mobile phones to call their associates, and within minutes, 20 Middle Eastern men arrived on the scene. They punched and pushed the police and damaged state vehicles. The police retreated and the gang followed them to the police station where they intimidated staff, damaged property and held the police station hostage.
[racist propaganda removed]
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Thats obvious , you only have to look also at the Hindu crisis culture in Fiji as well as the clash with Hinduism in Britain . Hinduism / Judaism and Islam each strictly enforce marriage within their own groups . This sets about a fortress mentality within those groups and this self imposed seclusion creates divisions as like in Australia . These religious based cultures inevitably set courses for their own destruction such as the Jewish holocaust and the current Islamic upheaval .android said:
That's a lovely observation, Brian.
It also explains why the European Jews have been oppressed throughout the century. They refuse to marry non-Jews, which makes it almost impossible to assimilate into their adopted homeland.
The same is now happening with some Muslims in Australia and European. The mindset that they are Muslims/Middle Easterners, but not Australians, is a very dangerous mindset, which creates an 'us vs them' situation.
I know mate and appreciate your point of view , my fear is that if Australia does not enforce a secular society , meaning taking and banishing these religions will we end up like that theocratic religious shithole Israhell .mountainhare said:That's a lovely observation, Brian.
It also explains why the European Jews have been oppressed throughout the century. They refuse to marry non-Jews, which makes it almost impossible to assimilate into their adopted homeland.
The same is now happening with some Muslims in Australia and European. The mindset that they are Muslims/Middle Easterners, but not Australians, is a very dangerous mindset, which creates an 'us vs them' situation.
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