Human presence in Arctic

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by paddoboy, Jan 14, 2016.

  1. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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  3. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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  5. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

    • Comments on the sexuality of other members are, in general, unnecessary and unwelcome. Please avoid.
    paddoboy, I am 100% Heterosexual!
    In the United States, Adult Heterosexual Males do not make Sexual WINKS at one another!
    Ergo, I find your Trolling Sexual Innuendo WINKS neither proper, nor welcome!
    I would prefer that you cease and desist with them.

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  7. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    More evidence to support concept of hunters that far north circa 45kybp:
    Heinrich event H5 during mis 3
    During that event: Arctic temperatures were very close to those of today. Add in the previously mentioned arctic water temperatures which were warmer than those of today, and you have an environment much less harsh than we may have imagined.

    hunter gatherers weren't tied to the land----no farms, no cities
    so as the climate changed and the prey moved, so did they.

    I hope that the Russians are doing pollen analysis of the mud that came back with the mammoth. 'Twould make an interesting read.
    I would not be surprised to see pollen indicators of a warm moist climate rich in vegetation for that time.

    The question remains. Why after putting in the effort to kill the mammoth was it not completely consumed?

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  8. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    From your link:

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    Really crazy
    or stupid?
    Mammoths were grazers
    There ain't nothing worth grazing on the ice.
    Why do idiots continue to associate "science" articles with such nonsensical pictures?

    Picture the prey animals grazing in lush meadows full of edible plants.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2016
  9. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Kinda like this: (needs more forbs, flowers, butterflies, birdies)

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    A brief pause for another Pavlovian moment.
  10. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    I'm sure further investigations are taking place to either further validate this theory or otherwise.
  11. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Will it merit the same attention as this teaser?
  12. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    It will merit the necessary scientific investigation as needed by the experts.
    Not chitter chatter on a forum such as this.
  13. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    que lastima
  14. paddoboy Valued Senior Member


    The carcass was uncovered from a steep bank on the eastern shore of Siberia's remote Yenisei Bay, very close to the Sopochnaya Karga (SK) meteorological station. The latitude is 72 degrees North. By way of comparison, the previous firmly dated evidence for human occupation this far north comes from 35,000 years ago.

    The mammoth has various injuries to its head and ribs, but perhaps the most intriguing is the puncture mark in a cheek bone. Dr Pitulko and colleagues say it was produced by a sharp, robust implement, and from its geometry was very likely delivered when the animal was on the ground.

    They write in their Science paper: "This injury itself is probably the result of a missed blow, targeting the base of the trunk.

    "This specific hunting method is still practised in Africa by elephant hunters, who target the base of the trunk to cut major arteries and cause mortal bleeding. This blow becomes necessary after the animal has been sufficiently injured, and the SK mammoth displays numerous injuries in the thoracic (chest) area."

    The team discusses the mammoth find in the context of other archaeological discoveries from across the Siberian Arctic. The researchers build a picture of human settlers getting themselves close enough to the far northeast of Russia that they could have made an early bid to cross into North America before the last ice age became so severe that the way would have been blocked. This would have been prior to 30,000 years ago.

    Currently, the evidence in northwest America does not support this, but Dr Pitulko said he and other scientists would continue to investigate the idea.

    "These finds change our mind on possible options and this is going to give a new stimulus for further research," he told BBC News.

    "These finds do not give an immediate answer, but allow thinking about the possibilities."

    Dr Pitulko is affiliated to the Institute for the History of Material Culture, at the Russian Academy of Sciences, in St Petersburg.
  15. paddoboy Valued Senior Member


    Genome reveals how woolly mammoth thrived in the cold

    Woolly mammoths spent their lives enduring extreme Arctic conditions including frigid temperatures, an arid environment and the relentless cycle of dark winters and bright summers.

    An exhaustive genetic analysis of these bygone Ice Age giants and their living cousins, Asian and African elephants, has revealed a slew of genetic adaptations that enabled woolly mammoths to thrive for eons in such adverse circumstances.

    The study, published the journal Cell Reports , compared the genomes of two mammoths whose remains were found in permafrost in northeastern Siberia, one 18,500 years old and the other 60,000 years old, with genomes of three Asian elephants and one African elephant.

    Mammoths possessed genetic changes associated with skin and hair development, fat biology, insulin biology and temperature tolerance that differentiated them from the elephants, says the study's lead author geneticist Vincent Lynch of the University of Chicago.

    "We think that these changes make sense in mammoths because we know that mammoths evolved long, thick hair, large fat deposits and lived in really cold places," says Lynch.

    "Insulin signaling is important for fat biology because insulin regulates how much sugar in the blood is converted to energy and fat."

    The researchers also "resurrected" the mammoth version of a gene called TRPV3. When transplanted into human cells, it produced a protein less responsive to heat than its elephant versions, indicating it helped make mammoths less sensitive to cold.

    Woolly mammoths, a bit larger than modern elephants, dwelled in the steppes of northern Asia, Europe and North America.

    The last mammoth disappeared roughly 4000 years ago. Whether their extinction resulted from a warming climate or human hunting remains hotly debated.

    The researchers acknowledged their genome sequencing could make it easier to bring back the mammoth via cloning.

    "If you want to build a woolly mammoth, we're showing some places to start. But that had nothing to do with why we studied mammoths," says another co-author Penn State University biologist Webb Miller.

    "I don't know why people are interested in cloning mammoths. It would be much easier, and perhaps more useful, to clone Franklin Roosevelt," adds Miller.

    Lynch says it seems inevitable someone will clone a mammoth.

    "While I think it will soon be technically possible to resurrect a mammoth, it is not something that we should do. Modern humans are not responsible for the extinction of mammoths, so we owe no debt to nature," Lynch adds.
  16. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

    Si, que pena
  17. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    The following message from the previous BBC link, sums up the scientific method admirably........

  18. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    There was a recent article in the Smithsonian magazine about the discovery of a small village buried under the tundra in Alaska. They were surprised to find that people who were living together, not long after what we regard as the first migrations from Asia, had five distinct DNA patterns. This suggested that various explorers crossed over Beringia at different times (although well within the general window of known migrations), established residency, made peace with each other and ultimately merged into a single community.

    In a harsh environment, which nonetheless had a more-or-less stable food supply, this is not unreasonable. Strength in numbers.

    If it turns out that Asians had discovered North America 20,000 years earlier than current evidence suggests, it will rewrite the history of our hemisphere. It's often pointed out that once the Siberians found their way into the Americas, it only took them one thousand years to populate both continents, all the way to Tierra del Fuego. That's a steady southward march of roughly ten miles (16km) per year--for an entire millennium!
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2016
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  19. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Nice to see some substance in this thread Fraggle.....
    Quite a change from the trolling being perpetrated for reasons only known to the perpetrator.
    I'm not that into Archeology/Paleontology, but could you post a link in this thread, and/or summary, re the discovery of the small village in the tundra in Alaska?
  20. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Here is a Smithsonian link.......


    If the findings are verified, it could mean the ancestors of modern humans left Africa earlier than previously thought, says Leonid Vishnyatsky, a Paleolithic archeologist at IHMC who was not involved in the study.

    “To penetrate beyond 70 degrees North as early as this evidence is suggesting, our tropics-born ancestors, assuming these Arctic pioneers belonged to our own species Homo sapiens, had to probably start their out-of Africa-and-into-Eurasia odyssey much earlier than 50 or 60 thousand years ago,” Vishnyatsky wrote in an email. “Before getting so far north, they would have had to learn to survive in many different types of environments, and that doesn’t happen overnight.”

    Pitulko says there is no doubt in his mind that the hunters were modern humans.

    “I fully reject the idea of Neanderthal involvement in the case,” he says. “Neanderthals were still alive 45,000 years ago, but there is no indication at all that they ventured beyond 48 degrees North elsewhere. Also, Neanderthals are known to be based in mountain landscapes, more or less high, while we are speaking of open landscapes.”

    The new findings could also be interpreted as support for the hypothesis that human settlement of the New World involved a millennia-long layover in Beringia that lasted up to 20,000 years, says Ripan Malhi, an anthropologist at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign.

    “Early adaptations and technologies that allowed humans to live in the Arctic supports the idea of ancestors of current-day Native Americans living in Beringia for an extended period before peopling the Americas,” says Malhi.

    John Hoffecker, a paleoanthropologist at the University of Colorado Boulder, has a more cautious take on the findings. “I don't think the new finds necessarily support the 'Beringia standstill' hypothesis,” says Hoffecker. “But they do fill in some background by confirming that humans were in the Arctic 45,000 years ago, and [possibly] in Beringia itself at this time.”

    For IHMC’s Vishnyatsky, the intriguing question now is what could have driven early humans to such a remote region. “It seems unlikely that such factors as land shortage and demographic pressure were at work in North Eurasia at that time,” he says.

    The answer might simply be that the Arctic was not as harsh as it is now, so humans readily used their advances in mammoth hunting techniques to follow their prey farther north. Evidence from Greenland ice core records, for instance, suggests that the Northern Hemisphere was undergoing a very warm period 45,000 years ago, Hoffecker says.

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    sculptor likes this.
  21. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    The "out of asia" hypothesis could use an alaskan site that pre-dates monte verde by a couple thousand years(or more---more would be better).
    Keep digging.
  22. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

    sculptor, your Posts have been quite insightful.
    I have earned 10 Warning Points because I did not react subserviently to some Harassment inflicted upon me in this Thread.

    Again, sculptor, I concur completely with all of your Posts. It has been refreshing to converse with you about Real Science.

    If I come across any more information, other than the usual regurgitated "Pop Science", about this particular Mammoth find...would it be alright if I simply send it to you in a PM?
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2016
  23. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    And here's another reputable report of this finding and the associated evidence....Nature: International weekly journal of science

    Human presence in the European Arctic nearly 40,000 years ago
    Pavel Pavlov1,2, John Inge Svendsen2,3 & Svein Indrelid4

    The transition from the Middle to the Upper Palaeolithic, approximately 40,000–35,000 radiocarbon years ago, marks a turning point in the history of human evolution in Europe. Many changes in the archaeological and fossil record at this time have been associated with the appearance of anatomically modern humans1, 2. Before this transition, the Neanderthals roamed the continent, but their remains have not been found in the northernmost part of Eurasia. It is generally believed that this vast region was not colonized by humans until the final stage of the last Ice Age some 13,000–14,000years ago3, 4. Here we report the discovery of traces of human occupation nearly 40,000 years old at Mamontovaya Kurya, a Palaeolithic site situated in the European part of the Russian Arctic. At this site we have uncovered stone artefacts, animal bones and a mammoth tusk with human-made marks from strata covered by thick Quaternary deposits. This is the oldest documented evidence for human presence at this high latitude; it implies that either the Neanderthals expanded much further north than previously thought or that modern humans were present in the Arctic only a few thousand years after their first appearance in Europe

    Again, as most agree with, further confirmation is desirable one way or the other......That's how science works!

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