I don't believe that all powers need be selfish, even communism if done according to the book which it never has.To the thread ; simply power ; nothing more or less than power that is selfish.
"Selfish" is more a personal human affliction.
I don't believe that all powers need be selfish, even communism if done according to the book which it never has.To the thread ; simply power ; nothing more or less than power that is selfish.
I don't believe that all powers need be selfish, even communism if done according to the book which it never has.
"Selfish" is more a personal human affliction.
Yep, just as I said, "Selfish" is more a personal human affliction.Wake up pad.
It's about power ; money and control . Population control.
It's not personal ; it's about ; persons' .
Yep, just as I said, "Selfish" is more a personal human affliction.
Just as I said river, "Selfish" is more a personal human affliction.To what ; pad ?
Just as I said river, "Selfish" is more a personal human affliction.
Yes, people often forget that the Nazi Party actually dragged Germany out of a very deep hole before Hitler and the Hierarchy went all wild on it. Even then, they did quite well for a few years before biting off more than they could chew.Well, life for the German people improved initially under his leadership. People were working and eating again. The value of German currency also took a turn for the better. He restored their national pride and gave them back hope for the future. It's unfortunate that war became the focus of their later years.
Yes, people often forget that the Nazi Party actually dragged Germany out of a very deep hole before Hitler and the Hierarchy went all wild on it. Even then, they did quite well for a few years before biting off more than they could chew.
The Weimar Republic was the first taste the German people had had of "democracy", and it failed miserably. We all understand the effect of the treatment handed out by the allies post WW1, but all the common man knew was that he didn't have a job.
"Give us a few more years to get it right" isn't going to fly when your kids are hungry.
Basically, as you more or less said, give people in a terrible economic situation a breath of fresh air and lift their living standards, and they'll follow you without many looking too closely at how it's being achieved.
Start a thread like this these days, though, and all you're going to get is pretty much the last three pages.
Perspectives based purely on a current moral position.
Nazi Party gained power in 1933, River. Not 1939, or the 6 odd years that followed.Hmmmm....of course you know that Banks ; International Banks ; financed Germany in World War 2. And Russia.
No holds barred on making money.
So no " bull shit here " of or about morality .
Manipulation of the most insidious kind was used in Germany and is still used today. World wide.
Nazi Party gained power in 1933, River. Not 1939, or the 6 odd years that followed.
Has absolutely nothing to do with why people wanted them in power. Does it.
1919, river. 1927. 1933. 1939. 1946. Now you go look up those years and get yourself some perspective.
It's fairly clear you're just posting on some vague "knowledge" gleaned from a few websites without any notion or understanding of the timelines and prevailing attitudes.
Another little tidbit - the German economy between 1925 and 1929 was injected with roughly 25 billion dollars of foreign cash, more than half from the USA. 25 billion dollars. in the 1920's. Would you like to go away and make some calculations and find out how much that would be by today's standards?
But the Weimar republic wasn't working. In spite of all that money, it had a long way to go before it became anything even closely resembling effective government.
Let's ignore for the moment that your average German citizen in 1933 didn't know international financiers were going to help prop up the German war machine from 1939-1945
Even though that's a fairly large point, it seems we have to start from some fairly basic levels with you.
Let's say you did know that. Let's say everything below assumes you know international financiers are propping up your country. Before the war, after the war, during the war... I don't really see what your point is, but let's play anyway.
It's 1933, And you're one of those millions of unemployed. A third of the population, River. A third. You've never experienced anything like that in your life. Not many in our particular social circles would have.
It's the first experience you've ever had with "democracy". It's been imposed upon you after a bunch of people started fighting about how you should govern yourselves.
Your old rulers are gone, exiled. Before that, and the war, you were one of the most powerful economies in the world.
You have no experience with this new type of government, this democracy thing. You only know you didn't get much say in what form it would take. You were happy before; now, you're hungry and out of work.
There has been a bit of violence around the country, but this is fairly normal for 1933. Fights on street corners are par for the course in most nations. Franklin Delano Roosevelt had just escaped an assassination attempt in Florida.
Politics is a dirty business, and physical violence is pretty much normal. It doesn't fly as high on your radar as it would in these times. Some of the protagonists in this violence wore uniforms. That's new. Well, sort of - many people bore a cockade or something to show their political allegiance.
Everyone is a bit wary of Jews anyway - nothing new there. It'll be a few more years yet before they start disappearing, so you know nothing of that yet.
This new mob doesn't like communists or gays, either. Well, that's ok. Neither do you.
You might have even been a member of the Freikorps after the first war. A fair few of this new mob were too. You might have fought alongside them in the war. They don't think the war was their fault. They don't even really think they were properly beaten. Millions of ex-military men who have no work and long for structure, order. Like it was in the old days.
Your kids are hungry. Your neighbours kids are hungry. Of 30 families in your little street, 10 have no job.
There is little in the way of unemployment relief. At some points, the value of money became meaningless. Less than ten years ago, foreign troops occupied the Ruhr to ensure your country paid its debt in kind rather than using your worthless money.
You'd been invaded, and no one said much about it.
This new mob are going to change all that. They're going to get you back on track. They're going to get you a military again, so those bloody French don't go around thinking they can occupy you to get paid.
This new mob says they'll get everyone a job. This new mob promise order, they promise structure, they promise it'll be more like it was 20 years ago when you were happy.
And it seems they might actually be able to do that - unlike this Weimar mob. The only other alternative really is the communists. Yech.
So you head down to the ballot boxes.
Now you go on with your moral principles, river.
You just go on with that. You go on pretending you know a little something. you know... the great cosmic love principle, or whatever it is you've got your head in.
Because, you know... in Germany, in 1933 - no one would have had any time for your thoughts at all.
What reason was that?
The same kind of "greed" resulted in the Marshall Plan after world war two.
It's currently resulting in better living conditions in many nations throughout the world dependent upon foreign cash.
Without this "greed", million of Africans would be starving... well, millions more.
Financial cash injections result in as much good as they do harm, river. Yet they all originate from the same source... people interested in self-enrichment.
That you choose to label a thing with your own perception of it is indicative only of an unbalanced viewpoint. You can call it insidious all you like, but the fact is that it is amoral, not moral or immoral.
...And it still has nothing to do with why those forms of government sometimes have success in gaining traction.
You sure about that?
What exactly do you think would happen if foreign donations and investment were pulled out of many African nations right now?
What do you think would have happened in Germany after world war 2 if it were not for the Marshall plan?
Do you honestly think it matters more that some people got rich, than it does millions didn't have to live in poverty?
That's a fairly uncaring world view you got there.
Yes, people often forget that the Nazi Party actually dragged Germany out of a very deep hole before ...
Basically, as you more or less said, give people in a terrible economic situation a breath of fresh air and lift their living standards, and they'll follow you without many looking too closely at how it's being achieved.
Start a thread like this these days, though, and all you're going to get is pretty much the last three pages.
Perspectives based purely on a current moral position.
By appointment, and violence. Not by election.retribution said:Nazi Party gained power in 1933, River. Not 1939, or the 6 odd years that followed
There's another one: That intelligence and benevolence are necessary, but not sufficient. Also among the necessities: luck. Because you need a simultaneous absence of dominant military capability and long term security of territory. You need longevity in your tyrant. And you need respite from things like drought and plague. Benevolent tyranny may be the most fragile of all governmental systems.retribution said:The only real problem with tyranny, in all its various forms, is that it demands leaders with intelligence and benevolence.
But for every South America, Africa, Asia, you have another continent full of benevolent strongmen?retribution said:In spite of that, and generally speaking, though, for every Athens, I'll give you a Rome. For every Germany, I'll give you a Singapore.