How are people suffering from Covid-19 in your place?

[Quantum Quack]

The problem with this line of thinking, is that even though you may have mild symptoms, you could pass the virus to someone else...who will pass it to an elderly person. And so on. If you suspected that you had the virus, even fleetingly last year, you and your family members should have stayed home.

Covid19 isn't a philosophy lesson, it's a physical virus.

if you are interested, google:
post covid syndrome

 

[Quantum Quack]

quoted wrong post sorry Billvon

 

[Quantum Quack]

I'm 65 years old.

Evidence that "age" is not a factor to be in poor health is the famous news of people over 90 years old who survived the virus infection.

You are exposed to bacteria and viruses all the time. And in many cases you don't even know about it. To get infected by those is the "normal" in nature.

In my case, I think I also got the virus in February last year, I had a kind of diarrhea and some pressure on the head for a few days. Here at home one of us also lost the sense of smell. Even so, everybody went to work and we lived as if it is the normal body reaction when a foreign body gets inside your body. No one in my home was afraid of a weak virus that kills only people with poor health condition.

Of course side effects are to happen, but this is how nature works. You have been infected by the virus already, then why do you think you need to be vaccinated if at your age you are in good health status? A "just in case"? It makes no sense.

Look at what is going on now. The pandemic hysteria is a fade already. More and more people are going outside in the middle of Winter season, and they have not been vaccinated yet. Many people are practically waking up to reality. In my family we only took extreme measures to take care of the real sick old members. The rest of us live as usual.

I do respect the fear of others and use the mask when going near people who are also wearing it. No need from my part to criticize their beliefs. Here we are discussing our points of view, so you are free to let being vaccinated, isolate from others, and so forth. I, from my part, just continue my life as usual as much as is permitted by the current regulations, even when I know some of them are unnecessary.

It is ironic that you fail to understand that it is you and people like you who deny the reality of the problem, that has created the need to have those "global" restrictions, lockdown's and mandatory mask wearing.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

Close the restaurants

rich people wont go bankrupt from covid
they will still be rich & still want to spend their money

smart restaurants would keep on their kitchen staff & do take away 5 star dining at 5 star prices
along with easy freezer meals for those same customers.
good chefs could knock out dozens of top quality 5 star quality 5 star priced customised freezable TV dinners

home(renovation) depot stores have been doing world record sales, along with grocery stores.
they have been keeping it as quiet as possible

so the money is still going around in the smart economy's

countrys with private health systems are showing how they have completely failed their citizens
that is the elephant in the room sitting on the baby crushing it to death

countrys with high levels of corruption have collapsed economically but no one wants to talk about that because soo many of the government are corrupt
their entire system runs on bribes so everyone is expected to be corrupt & normal business is run on bribes and corruption.

its quite fascinating.

hope modi kicks those protesting maharaja farmers asses
imagine how much food they are stopping from being grown by taking those tractors off the farms
none of them wearing masks
all of them are almost slave owners
with wage slave people working on their farms
its so disgraceful them riding around on their elephant tractors denying Indian people food then complaining they are not going to be as rich as they were before because their own corrupt power system will be turned into a democracy giving the small guy or girl the power to sell to someone other than them
the slave masters
i think modi is doing so well holding it all together.

I do respect the fear of others and use the mask when going near people who are also wearing it. No need from my part to criticize their beliefs. Here we are discussing our points of view, so you are free to let being vaccinated, isolate from others, and so forth. I, from my part, just continue my life as usual as much as is permitted by the current regulations, even when I know some of them are unnecessary.

interesting
i get a sense of culture type from you saying "life is tough, get fit or get dead" which is very common in peoples who have struggled through terrible times like war & extreme hardship.
but there is a distinct difference between those who have experience struggle
and those who are upper class who do not care about other people around them.

do you read on any science information about viruses and pandemics and infection of peoples with viruses ?
(..."how viruses live & evolve etc..." ?)

"incubation" is a science word used by scientists to describe the process where a virus is allowed to live continually & spread & evolve.

i am guessing you would not have been following the science on SAR'S CoV-2 ?

have you heard of the "new variants" issue ?

what is happening now is those places where the virus has been allowed to live & spread, is evolving at such a massively fast rate
the DNA of the virus is evolving millions of times
this is giving it the ability to change into something vastly more deadly

so while you think you are being practical & think only the lazy stupid sick fat people will die
the virus is evolving at such a fast rate that without scientists spending massive resources into developing vaccines
the evolving virus will evolve to over take human society's ability to fight it.

i am well aware some peoples ideologies and that they truly believe in such a terrible catastrophe of the human civilization
and want it to happen
and will help it happen in what ever way they can
and hope billions will die

yes i am well aware of the simple fact that many millions of people hope for that.

imagine what it would be like to live among thousands of dead & rotting human bodies everywhere polluting water supply's & all the air born diseases that would then spread.

modern society operates via high density city life dependent on monopolized systems of transport & supply
manufacturing relys on this same principal

It is ironic

the expression "im all right jack"
meaning "until "i/we" start to suffer directly there is no problem"

like middle eastern Muslim war refugees being ignored by middle eastern Muslim country's & people while the west falls over its self to provide houses food & medicine
and then those same Muslim middle eastern country's then criticizing those western country's for not giving more to those middle eastern Muslim war refugees
then mocking them
then labeling them as to blame & seeking to create and spread hate about them

shit is messed up in so many ways

 

[Quantum Quack]

shit is messed up in so many ways

yes... the hypocrisy shows no limitations...
"Darn it... if only I maintained social distancing as repeatedly recommended by thousands of medical professionals, I wouldn't have to be sitting in a wheel chair with a tube stuffed down my throat and my family wouldn't be facing the same deal"
Am I conflating the issue... perhaps a tad... but no one really knows what the long term prognosis is for any one who has had any degree of infection by this bug... no one!

It is called a novel virus for a reason and hearkening back to previous viruses and their outcomes just doesn't cut it...

From what I understand it is imperative that the viral load sustained by the community is reduced as a matter of urgency to avoid the advent of more aggressive mutations and apart from vaccines, social distancing and good quarantine provisions are the only way forward.

For example: ( my rant)
One of the big reasons why impoverished nations need to be helped with social distancing and vaccine regimes by 1st worlder's is to avoid the viral load in those nations generating some serious mutations. It is in every ones interests to do what ever we can to reduce the viral load in ANY society regardless of wealth and access. ( end of rant)

 

[RainbowSingularity]

Your ranting is always warmly received & digested as scientific opinion

For example: ( my rant)
One of the big reasons why impoverished nations need to be helped with social distancing and vaccine regimes by 1st worlder's is to avoid the viral load in those nations generating some serious mutations. It is in every ones interests to do what ever we can to reduce the viral load in ANY society regardless of wealth and access. ( end of rant)

100 or more percentage agree (cynercistic humour at the anti science tin-foil-hat propaganda merchants)

long covid(as one example)[american culture wants the fast easy money single pay out, long covid doesnt play by those rules]
what is also an unknown is the micro changes in humans that will then evolve as humans breed
Zika was easy to see
with part of the babies head missing at birth it was a bit of an early give away

who is to say SAR'S CoV-2 cant mutate into something like this but it skips a generation
it would bring modern civilization into a human sacrifice culture where human society would routinely sacrifice its babies in mass cull events to compensate.
the down stream effect on lost reproductive cycle would destabilize knowledge bases from being passed on from generation to generation
so intellect would go backwards
trades & services skills would be lost

those people not taking SAR'S CoV-2 seriously do not deserve to be included in the conversation or the decision making processes.

wiki site on Zika for anyone not up on it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zika_virus

how strange is life perspective concepts
looking at people like Bill Gates
The Gemini & Apollo teams & Manhattan teams etc
(building a weapon to destroy the world to save the world to be stared down by a tiny virus)
now staring modern civilizations collapse directly in the face in 2021 when theory was we would have colonized the moon by this time.

 

[Quantum Quack]

who is to say SAR'S CoV-2 cant mutate into something like this but it skips a generation

I agree with your general statements but wish to extend a little if I may ( i am confident you already know what i am about to post...but will post any how)
You have stated quite correct in opinioning that "the vector of mutation is unknown and at this stage unknowable." and that it may possibly take the leap into human reproduction etc..aka Zika.
Perhaps it is worth considering that the current virus, even with out mutation has many unknowns as to infection, recovery ramifications and mutation of the virus is not necessary to raise concerns as the concerns already exist.

The news on the viral impact on pregnant women is currently in it's infancy but there are enough indicators to raise serious concerns. This also concerns more than just currently pregnant women when discussing virus and human fertility.

Prevention and mitigation are by far the best ways to deal with this issue for any one foolish enough to wager a bet on how they are going to turn out may find themselves on the wrong end of the stats.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

I agree with your general wrong end .

editing for humour

i suspect people with very expensive pets do not want their pets to contract covid19
[best practice appears to be not soo alien to many peoples concepts when considered in the right context]

viral loading
hhmmm...
lets say the nay sayer nut jobs get their best ever hopes dreams & prayers met by SAR'S CoV-2 not mutating too drastically and all it does is manages to spike its viral loading as an exponential mutation(increase).
onset of massive immunological over response could be triggered in a matter of hours instead of days, although it would 1st require an asymptomatic period to be transmitted, maybe 2 weeks would be sufficient to just maintain its global longevity
[proof reading & thinking maybe only 1 week considering the average current situation globally]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
we have the science
why not use it
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
splain spiel
..... because greed because capitalism because user pays capitalism must be maintained by demanding all modern working class throw themselves on their swords so the elite can survive & breed a master race ...
sheesh

p.s
comment
was standing in line at the store
no one was wearing masks
early 70s year old lady was chatting with 70yo staff member being served
most were social distancing
as 70yo customer turned away from the counter she coughed without covering her face
then said to the staff member "its asthma" then walked out down the line of waiting customers coughing as she walked past them all not covering her mouth or face in any way
it was a bit surreal
i thought BIEETCH ! if you have asthma your a nut job for not wearing a mask in public because IF you catch covid it will kick your ass.
stoopid woman !

i know people in the medical profession who have told me terrible things and how common they are, a lot of people so easily forget how fragile life is.

 

[Luchito]

I am all for people wearing masks:
1) who have the flu
2) who are more susceptible to the flu
3) during a really bad flu year

But since COVID-19 is killing an order of magnitude more people than the flu, far more caution is wise.

You're not good at logic either, are you.

The flu kills about 35,000 people a year in the US. So far in the US (April to April) COVID-19 has killed over 500,000.

Those two numbers are different. So sorry, you fail math if you think they are the same.

Again, do a little googling on what the WHO is. (Hint - it's not a government.)


They did publish it. I saw it. You did not because you get your news from biased right wing sources.

Expand your sources and you will learn a lot more.

Yes there are, because he is an irresponsible fool.

Meanwhile, it is a fact that Trump hid in the basement when protesters scared him. Biden did not.

And back to what Biden is doing to fight the pandemic - today he brokered a deal between Johnson and Johnson and Merck (a competitor.) Merck will make the J+J vaccine to increase the supply, even though they are in direct competition with J+J.

That's something Trump could never have done. He would have told Merck to do it, they would have said "we don't really want to . . ." and he would have fired off a dozen angry tweets comparing Merck to Hitler, then gone golfing.

Thank you for admitting that. Ignorance, fortunately, is curable. Your choice.

So, manipulating my last answer was your best shot.
Besides of lying when you talk of an imaginary Biden plan for the pandemic in March 2020, a laughable argument of yours, you are demonstrating how a poor fanatic uses tricks and deviate responses to "look good in front of readers".
Surely, in this topic is a waste to discuss with you.

 

[wegs]

Okay, that response sounds so Jan Ardena. ^^
lol

 

[Luchito]

The problem with this line of thinking, is that even though you may have mild symptoms, you could pass the virus to someone else...who will pass it to an elderly person. And so on. If you suspected that you had the virus, even fleetingly last year, you and your family members should have stayed home.

Covid19 isn't a philosophy lesson, it's a physical virus.

This is the reason I said the protection should have been focused on people with poor health condition. Many elderly are in very good shape, in many cases with better health than lots of young people.

 

[Luchito]

If you are so passionate about what you consider to be a hoax, by all means prove your point and deliberately infect yourself, then report back here about your experience and post infection trauma.
I look forward to you supporting your claim...You never know you may actually be one of the people that survive a couple of weeks hooked up to a ventilator.
View attachment 3956

I never said it was a hoax.

 

[billvon]

Besides of lying when you talk of an imaginary Biden plan for the pandemic in March 2020

I gave you a link. Are you unable to read? Or has your steady diet of right wing news sources rendered you resistant to fact?

Just in case you're still capable of accepting factual information, here are some more links for you:

April 2020 - four point plan for protecting front line workers from COVID https://joebiden.com/joe-bidens-4-point-plan-for-our-essential-workers/
June 2020 - updated COVID plan released https://joebiden.com/beat-covid19/
July 2020 - plan for school reopenings https://joebiden.com/school-reopening/

This is something that candidates who want to win an election commonly do - lay out their plans for their term in office.

a laughable argument of yours, you are demonstrating how a poor fanatic uses tricks and deviate responses to "look good in front of readers".

I haven't cared about looking good for years.

But, uh, good luck with that. You'll really "look good in front of readers" by denying that there's a pandemic, or by denying that Biden's plan exists.

 

[Luchito]

It is ironic that you fail to understand that it is you and people like you who deny the reality of the problem, that has created the need to have those "global" restrictions, lockdown's and mandatory mask wearing.

Lets see.

I will compare the virus with storm categories.

It is category 1. So you can say good bye to your mobile home, some damage to weak coverings like roofs in shopping centers, some electric lines in streets.

It is not category 3 or, 4 or 5.

Just category 1. I will raise it to category 2 to make you happy.

The taken measures to fight against the virus were evacuation of the area, hiding in basements Biden's style, collecting water supplies, food and medicines, as if it was a category 5 storm.

Do you get it now?

 

[Jeeves]

rich people wont go bankrupt from covid
they will still be rich & still want to spend their money

smart restaurants would keep on their kitchen staff & do take away 5 star dining at 5 star prices
along with easy freezer meals for those same customers.
good chefs could knock out dozens of top quality 5 star quality 5 star priced customised freezable TV dinners

home(renovation) depot stores have been doing world record sales, along with grocery stores.
they have been keeping it as quiet as possible

so the money is still going around in the smart economy's

countrys with private health systems are showing how they have completely failed their citizens
that is the elephant in the room sitting on the baby crushing it to death

countrys with high levels of corruption have collapsed economically but no one wants to talk about that because soo many of the government are corrupt
their entire system runs on bribes so everyone is expected to be corrupt & normal business is run on bribes and corruption.

its quite fascinating.

hope modi kicks those protesting maharaja farmers asses
imagine how much food they are stopping from being grown by taking those tractors off the farms
none of them wearing masks
all of them are almost slave owners
with wage slave people working on their farms
its so disgraceful them riding around on their elephant tractors denying Indian people food then complaining they are not going to be as rich as they were before because their own corrupt power system will be turned into a democracy giving the small guy or girl the power to sell to someone other than them
the slave masters
i think modi is doing so well holding it all together.

You got all that out of "close the restaurants".... and yet never got to GBI.
its quite fascinating.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Just category 1. I will raise it to category 2 to make you happy.

Like I posted:

It is ironic that you fail to understand that it is you and people like you who deny the reality of the problem, that has created the need to have those "global" restrictions, lockdown's and mandatory mask wearing.

Do you seriously believe that community leaders like the idea of locking down communities and losing billions etc.
Why do you think those normally money hungry bastards recommend restrictions ? Is it just to flex a bit of muscle or something else?

 

[Quantum Quack]

Lets see.

I will compare the virus with storm categories.

It is category 1. So you can say good bye to your mobile home, some damage to weak coverings like roofs in shopping centers, some electric lines in streets.

It is not category 3 or, 4 or 5.

Just category 1. I will raise it to category 2 to make you happy.

The taken measures to fight against the virus were evacuation of the area, hiding in basements Biden's style, collecting water supplies, food and medicines, as if it was a category 5 storm.

Do you get it now?

try this scenario:

You have a million people living in a medium density environment.
at 12 noon on day one, one person will become contagious and not even know they are.
By the time it is discovered that a deadly infection is spreading it is day 4.
How many people are infected after 4 days? ( rhetorical)
How many of those are asymptomatic?
What action would any sane leader take once advised of a highly contagious and fatal illness spreading with out check?
With a CFR of 4% and hospitals services overwhelmed etc what would you recommend?
What rating would you give it Cat 1 or Cat 5?
and why would you?
Remember it was only one person to start with....at that time was it a cat 1 or a cat 5?

ok now exaggerate the situation for a virus with similar transmission rates but a CFR of 80%
One person out of a million is initially infected: Is it a Cat 1 or a cat 5 event?

Edit:
btw I do understand your perspective and have some sympathy towards it. Here in Australia we have virtually eliminated the virus having almost zero community transmission. This was achieved only because of severe restrictions on travel social distancing and mask wearing. All events that do take place are from international arrivals and quarantine breaches.

Even so we still are required to wear masks and gathering size is restricted. International borders have been more or less closed for nearly 13 months now.

Of course it is easy to wonder what all the fuss its about given such low infection rates but of course this only happens when you forget about the fact that the only reason we have low infection transmission IS because of those tough restrictions. IS because we all had to stay at home and avoid any contact with others etc...

It was not that long ago I had my first cafe meet and greet in nearly 12 months...( normally it was a daily event)
So far I have avoided becoming infected which is a good thing as I am in a high risk group.

 

[Luchito]

Do you seriously believe that community leaders like the idea of locking down communities and losing billions etc.
Why do you think those normally money hungry bastards recommend restrictions ? Is it just to flex a bit of muscle or something else?

Finally, you got it!

 

[Luchito]

try this scenario:

You have a million people living in a medium density environment.
at 12 noon on day one, one person will become contagious and not even know they are.
By the time it is discovered that a deadly infection is spreading it is day 4.
How many people are infected after 4 days? ( rhetorical)
How many of those are asymptomatic?
What action would any sane leader take once advised of a highly contagious and fatal illness spreading with out check?
With a CFR of 4% and hospitals services overwhelmed etc what would you recommend?
What rating would you give it Cat 1 or Cat 5?
and why would you?
Remember it was only one person to start with....at that time was it a cat 1 or a cat 5?

ok now exaggerate the situation for a virus with similar transmission rates but a CFR of 80%
One person out of a million is initially infected: Is it a Cat 1 or a cat 5 event?

Edit:
btw I do understand your perspective and have some sympathy towards it. Here in Australia we have virtually eliminated the virus having almost zero community transmission. This was achieved only because of severe restrictions on travel social distancing and mask wearing. All events that do take place are from international arrivals and quarantine breaches.

Even so we still are required to wear masks and gathering size is restricted. International borders have been more or less closed for nearly 13 months now.

Of course it is easy to wonder what all the fuss its about given such low infection rates but of course this only happens when you forget about the fact that the only reason we have low infection transmission IS because of those tough restrictions. IS because we all had to stay at home and avoid any contact with others etc...

It was not that long ago I had my first cafe meet and greet in nearly 12 months...( normally it was a daily event)
So far I have avoided becoming infected which is a good thing as I am in a high risk group.

I love Australia.

It took me years to find out the meaning of the images painted in the Uluru rock, and I think I'm in the right path.

Your example is excellent.

At noon, a person is infected and the out co0ming is unknown.

As a preventive measure, extreme actions are taking because the magnitude of the contagious rate can't be determined.

You see president Trump ordering close of offices, restrictions in airports, lots of measures, all of them happening because no one knows the consequences arisen from a situation that became a pandemic.

But, after weeks it is found the virus was not lethal as it was predicted.

Question: Was necessary to maintain the extreme measures any longer?

By no means.

Using my analogy: preparations are made to a coming storm category 5. But, when the storm arrived was category 2. Was necessary to keep all the measures taken for a storm category 5 after its arrival as category 2?

My answer is NO.

 

[Quantum Quack]

I love Australia.

It took me years to find out the meaning of the images painted in the Uluru rock, and I think I'm in the right path.

I love Australia too... lol
I worked at the 4 seasons hotel Yulara resort, Uluru for just on 9 months as a purchaser (1990/91). I have visited the area from Melbourne, on 4 separate occasions and find the place and local indigenous peoples fascinating..
reminder:


you probably know more about the art work than most Australians.(including local Indigenous).. lol

Your example is excellent.

thank you...

At noon, a person is infected and the out co0ming is unknown.

ah but you are mistaken, the outcome is quite well understood. A person who is free to travel any where is infected unknowingly and has approximately 4 days to spread the good news.
Going on to further infect others who are also free to travel and interact with potential vectors and also do so unknowingly. By the time the 4 days are up before the alarm is raised thousands could be infected and also free to travel were ever they like. Add in a 14 day incubation period and you have pandemic on your hands...

By the time Trump acted and closed the border to Chinese travelers the USA was already carrying a heavy viral load.
The USA continued to import the virus from Spain, Italy , France and most of Europe as they were also carrying a viral load and were in a state of emergency.
But of course Trump had refused to take the advice of medical experts and was not intelligent enough to realise that closing the border to China only, was an excercise in futility. He really needed to do a lot better....
Mind you in all fairness many world leaders ignored the obvious as well,,, Boris Johnston of the UK was one of them....and take a look at what has happened there...

Trumps inaction and stubborn stupidity cost how many of the 500,000 lives 12 month later?

You see president Trump ordering close of offices, restrictions in airports, lots of measures, all of them happening because no one knows the consequences arisen from a situation that became a pandemic.

But, after weeks it is found the virus was not lethal as it was predicted.

Question: Was necessary to maintain the extreme measures any longer?

Ask any of the 500,000 that died as a result of his poor leadership and then go on to ask any of the next 500,000.
You see, the cumulative effect is that the USA is going to be crippled by this virus for the foreseeable future until the population take the situation seriously enough to obey simple social distancing rules including mask wearing ( especially in crowded situations) and no, the virus is not going to simply vanish as Trump publicly suggested.

Latest stats appear to reflect that the population is generally starting to get the message and the new case rate is actually falling in many states, the ones that have severe restrictions mandated.

Today in the USA
the total case number :
29,427,000
new cases:
53,600
total death ( CFR)
531,000
days new death
1,941
Do the research and work it out for yourself...

Texas has just announced they are opening up totally removing all restrictions.
the total case number today (04/03/2021) (src: worldometers)
3,564,778
total new cases:
1,160
total deaths:
44,701
total new deaths:
47

It will be tragically interesting to see where the figures go 7-14 days after the restrictions are removed and people relax their social distancing requirements as per Government encouragement.
The Governor, Greg Abbot, may end up in jail for deliberately ignoring medical advice and literally killing thousands due to his failure to protect his community from their own ignorance.
In fact I may run a thread topic on the Texas experiment and record their progress back to the inevitable lock down in a few weeks....it is almost a scientific certainty that Texas will be back into severe restrictions with in a few weeks. Same goes for Mississippi. Perhaps the world needs to prepare for a Texan mutation?

There is also the issue of the latest and greatest mutation from Brazil that is already being seen in the USA that appears ( the studies are ongoing) to be able to avoid the vaccination regime. If so then the world is going to be in pandemic status for a few years yet...

History will show that Trump's willful incompetence has cost the USA a staggering amount not only in human terms but in economic ones as well..

I hold him personally responsible for the death of 10's of thousands and I am not the only one.
As in Brazil the president there ( a trump clone) is also responsible not only for a significant portion of deaths so far but also the consequential mutation that has emerged in the Amazonia that has the potential to kill millions.