Home made energy converter.

billvon said:
Nope. A closed container of boiling water at 100C most definitely does not have a "pressure force" of 1 bar. It boils at 100C at 1 bar; the pressure then increases quite rapidly.



True. But once you are out of liquid CO2 then you can get no more energy out of the system. You're done. (Unless you have a -40C heat sink to recondense it.)



Very true. You can use a solar concentrator, or a nuclear reactor, or natural gas combustion, or wood, or pretty much any heat source.
Click to expand...

Correct on all points, of course.

The thing is, this guy obviously does not understand phase change CYCLES. Although he seems to understand that the volume/pressure increases when a liquid is heated and turns to vapor, it's his concept of getting it back to a liquid again that's so foolish. He still believes you can extract heat from the surrounding air AND (somehow) get that vapor to turn into liquid again by dumping the heat into the very same air.

At one point he did acknowledge that a heat sink is needed BUT he thinks that heat sink is created by the expanding gas itself. He thinks that the cooling effect of the expanding gas is sufficient to re-liquefy the gas!! That's where he's stuck - WE understand the problem there but it's entirely over HIS head and he'll never get it no matter how many times we explain it. <shrug>
 
Hello Read-Only,

"re-liquefy the gas!!" Realy dont see any mention in post or any reply.

"phase change CYCLES" Realy dont see any mention in post or any reply.

"it's his concept of getting it back to a liquid" Realy dont see any mention in post or any reply.

Perhaps some nice person might read them to you. While they are at it they may help you understand H2O and CO2 are not the same thing.

Steam is not magical, its 1 bar pressure (at 100*C) does not increase unless more heat is added, unless it knows your magic secret.

Dont step out of the freezer or your body may start absorbing heat extracted from the air and blow your belief thats not possible.

Come back again, its truly is well worth the laugh.

Cheers Peter
 
DaS Energy said:
However I am glad your smart enough to realise that water at 100*C and 1 bar pressure aint going to do much.
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Deadly storms that uproot trees, rip buildings apart, toss vehicles in the air, and scoop away barrier islands, can be born in conditions like those you think are useless. This gets back to not understanding the difference between temp. (and/or pressure) and energy. Energy does work. And hot water has the potential to do work, but only in reference to a hotter or colder source. Either pressure or temperature can be assessed as energy when associated with a volume (or number of moles) at the given temp./pressure.
 
DaS Energy said:
Hello Read-Only,

"re-liquefy the gas!!" Realy dont see any mention in post or any reply.

"phase change CYCLES" Realy dont see any mention in post or any reply.

"it's his concept of getting it back to a liquid" Realy dont see any mention in post or any reply.

Perhaps some nice person might read them to you. While they are at it they may help you understand H2O and CO2 are not the same thing.

Steam is not magical, its 1 bar pressure (at 100*C) does not increase unless more heat is added, unless it knows your magic secret.

Dont step out of the freezer or your body may start absorbing heat extracted from the air and blow your belief thats not possible.

Come back again, its truly is well worth the laugh.

Cheers Peter
Click to expand...

It's a wasted effort trying to teach you anything. You absolutely do NOT know enough about basic physics for anyone to help you. Everyone here who taken the time to try and help you understand is talking FAR above your feeble ability to comprehend.
 
Hello Aqueous Id,

Absolutely agree and wish I had your way with words.

By hydro turbine conversion, one litre of water per second having 9 bar pressure when arriving, shall convert to 720 watts.

By applying heat to a gas we obtain a working pressure gas force. By applying a gas force to a quantity of liquid we obtain liquid force capable to rotate a hydro turbine generator.

Heat differential CO2 50*C -100*C provides 6,800 bar driver force, converting to 500kW.

Now to make the whole energy thing even more curious a company is advertising an electric heating element of 320kW that will output one litre per second of water at 100*C despite an inflow of water one litre per second at 50*C.

Text book overunity has not yet gone to trial as the turbine shaft seal is wanting. Whowever built Natalaus got the seals to work 20,000 leagues under the sea. We only want the pressure of 12,500 leagues under the sea.

Mid strength line pipe easily handles the pressures involved. So overunity is not that far away.

What we now dont know is, do we need leather seals, magnetic force feild, or what type of shaft seal to install in the turbine.

Cheers Peter
 
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DaS Energy said:
Hello Aqueous Id,

Absolutely agree and wish I had your way with words.

By hydro turbine conversion one litre of water per second having 9 bar pressure when arriving at the turbine shall convert to 720 watts.

By applying heat to a gas we obtain a working pressure force. By applying a gas force to a liquid

Now to make the whole energy thing even more curious a company is advertising an electric heating element of 320kW that will output one litre per second of water at 100*C despite an inflow of water one litre per second at 50*C.

The heat differential when applied to Carbon Dioxide creates a 6,800 bar driver force. That pressure force applied to water feediing a hydro turbine outputs 500kW.

Text book overunity has not yet gone to trial as the turbine shaft seal is wanting. Whowever built Natalaus got the seals to work 20,000 leagues under the sea. We only want the pressure of 12,500 leagues under the sea.

Mid strength line pipe easily handles the pressures involved. So overunity is not that far away.

What we now dont know is, do we need leather seals, magnetic force feild, or what type of shaft seal to install in the turbine.

Cheers Peter
Click to expand...

See what I mean about not understanding even basic physics? This poor jerk actually BELIEVES overunity is possible!! <heavy sigh>
 
Hello Read- Only,

Your copying cut the quote, here is the full quote "By applying heat to a gas we obtain a working pressure gas force. By applying a gas force to a quantity of liquid we obtain liquid force capable to rotate a hydro turbine generator."

Cheers Peter
 
DaS Energy said:
Hello Read- Only,

Your copying cut the quote, here is the full quote "By applying heat to a gas we obtain a working pressure gas force. By applying a gas force to a quantity of liquid we obtain liquid force capable to rotate a hydro turbine generator."

Cheers Peter
Click to expand...

Irrelevant - that's just additional background noise. My point is unchanged: only highly uneducated and/or ignorant people believe in overunity.
 
DaS Energy said:
... Text book overunity has not yet gone to trial as the turbine shaft seal is wanting. Whowever built Natalaus got the seals to work 20,000 leagues under the sea. We only want the pressure of 12,500 leagues under the sea.

Mid strength line pipe easily handles the pressures involved. So overunity is not that far away. ...
Click to expand...

As used in Jules Verne's "Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea", a league is 4km, and describes distance traveled, not depth. 20,000 leagues = 80,000 kilometers (The radius of Earth is less than 6,400km.)

The deepest known ocean location, about 11km, is in the Mariana Trench. Per Wikipedia: "At the bottom of the trench, where the plates meet, the water column above exerts a pressure of 1,086 bars (15,750 psi)" [108.6 megapascals].

Given that 3 leagues exceeds 108 MPa, would you care to calculate the pressure at your hypothetical 12,500 leagues?
 
Pantaz said:
Given that 3 leagues exceeds 108 MPa, would you care to calculate the pressure at your hypothetical 12,500 leagues?
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Good post. Welcome to the board, where logic meets insanity without the pressure differential ever moving a thing.

A good way to characterize the pressure needed to liquefy CO[sub]2[/sub] is simply to correlate it to a depth. So, for example, we could ask DasEnergy to dive with a balloon full of CO[sub]2[/sub] gas (say at 1.5 atm) and ask him how far he must descend before the gas liquefies.

This would be a good follow-up the the question you asked.
 
Hello Pandaz

Thank you for the correction. You absolutely correct.

It not be 12,500 leagues under the sea, but meters under the sea.

Late night attempt at humour in finding shaft seal went amiss.

Web defines one league as 5.55600 Kilometers, or 5,560 meters.

Each 10 meters of depth increases pressure by one bar. Calculates to 556.6 bar pressure every league.

556.6 into 6,800 =12. 21 times or 12.21 leagues which slightly increases as pressure is slightly more than one bar for each ten meters of water depth.

Thank you for the help.

Cheers Peter
 
Hello Aqueous Id,

You are right, by the information provided in your question I have no idea at what pressure/depth CO2 will liquefiy.

Firstly because none of DaS machine technology requires CO2 to be liquefied.

Secondly one can take CO2 past the depth of deepest ocean and out the other side of the Planet and it still it wont liquefy if its temperature is above +33*C.

Pressure needed to liquefy CO2 at a given temperature is readily Web available

Cheers Peter
 
DaS Energy said:
Hello Aqueous Id,

You are right, by the information provided in your question I have no idea at what pressure/depth CO2 will liquefiy.

Firstly because none of DaS machine technology requires CO2 to be liquefied.

Secondly one can take CO2 past the depth of deepest ocean and out the other side of the Planet and it still it wont liquefy if its temperature is above +33*C.

Pressure needed to liquefy CO2 at a given temperature is readily Web available

Cheers Peter
Click to expand...

Egad!! I cannot believe you actually said that!

Here you are, attempting to talk about refrigeration and power generation technology and you do not even understand that phase change is the very heart] of both of them!

It's by virtue of the tremendous mechanical advantage gained by going from a liquid to a gas that makes it possible to spin a turbine to produce electrical power. And it's by virtue of condensing the gas to a liquid that makes it possible to move and reject the large amount of heat involved that makes modern refrigeration work.

Yet according to your statement I bolded above, you never leave the gas phase at all !!!! That's just plain stupid, STUPID thinking.
 
Hello Read-Only,

Pressure required to condensense CO2 to liquid is dependant on TEMPERATURE. Without such given see Web, though it shall require it also.

"It's by virtue of the tremendous mechanical advantage gained by going from a liquid to a gas that makes it possible to spin a turbine to produce electrical power"

It's by virtue of the TINY mechanical advantage gained by going from a liquid to a gas (Steam) that makes it possible to spin a turbine to produce electrical power.

"And it's by virtue of condensing the gas to a liquid that makes it possible to move and reject the large amount of heat involved that makes modern refrigeration work."

Turning the gas into ice would remove even larger amounts of heat. Silly buggers havent thought of that.

6,800 bar of pressure without any heating need to make liquid or ice into gas, now theres a thought, how STUPID..

Such a con from school days up, gas pressure drops with temperature, the bastards!

Cheers Peter
 
DaS Energy said:
Hello Read-Only,

Pressure required to condensense CO2 to liquid is dependant on TEMPERATURE. Without such given see Web, though it shall require it also.

"It's by virtue of the tremendous mechanical advantage gained by going from a liquid to a gas that makes it possible to spin a turbine to produce electrical power"

It's by virtue of the TINY mechanical advantage gained by going from a liquid to a gas (Steam) that makes it possible to spin a turbine to produce electrical power.

"And it's by virtue of condensing the gas to a liquid that makes it possible to move and reject the large amount of heat involved that makes modern refrigeration work."

Turning the gas into ice would remove even larger amounts of heat. Silly buggers havent thought of that.

6,800 bar of pressure without any heating need to make liquid or ice into gas, now theres a thought, how STUPID..

Such a con from school days up, gas pressure drops with temperature, the bastards!

Cheers Peter
Click to expand...

As I've said before you clearly know VERY LITTLE about this subject.

Tell us: Just how many of your silly "DaS machines" have you managed to sell? And to whom?
 
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