Holocaust ... and other forms of Denial

[Michael]

You just claimed that some hypothetical

I see we need a summary:
1. Between 50 - 85% of an IQ score is genetic.
2. A lifetime of parenting styles has no significant effect on IQ score.
3. Some IQ test questions can only be used one time and therefore a lifetime of government school MCQ assessment has inflated IQ test scores (IQ is now decreasing each year in the USA).
4. Adoption studies showed black children have an increased IQ score when raised by white parents, and that their IQ scores as adults in the USA is around 85, insignificantly different from the average for black Americans.
5. The average IQ score for black Americans is similar to the average for blacks living outside of the USA.
6. The average IQ for black children of black Americans raised in upper-income black families is the same as the national average (around 85) whereas poor white children raised in poor families in poor depressed areas is the same as the national average (around 98).
6. E. Asian children raised in England had IQ scores that matched E. Asians raised in Asia (around 107).
7. Structural racism, such as laws that lower the SAT score required for admission to higher education, are biased in favor of black applicants.

8. There is no good evidence white racism affects the IQ of black people in the USA
9. There is no good evidence blacks are being purposely poisoned by whites.
10. There is no good evidence that blacks are purposely malnourished by whites.
11. There is no good evidence that exposure to lead, noise or pollution is lowering the national average IQ score for blacks living in America (around 85)

The above is a list of the scientific evidence.
The data.
To deny the empirical data, is to deny science (what iceaura is doing). A reasonable conclusion is that the average IQ score of black Americans is just as the Minnesota adoption study published in their peer review study, around 85.

While iceaura would like to spin a tale about how the planets dance around in various orbits as the circle the Earth, the simpler explanation is the planets circle the Sun. The simplest answer as to why some people are in the lowest socioeconomic level in the USA, is due to their biological IQ. This claim is a race independent claim and it explains why most poor people in the USA, are poor low IQ white people.

You can continue to deny science all day every day until the last of your days. In the meantime, the science will continue to demonstrate that IQ is mostly biological, that the reason why blacks have average IQs that are lower than whites, is the same reason why whites have lower average IQs than yellows - biochemistry. In the next ten years we will have 100% completely objective brain function tests, genetic and fMRI scans will easily categorise people into various categories. And, because we live under the rule of an Authoritarian State in a Progressive Socialistic Utopia, the Government will use these scores to place some Citizens of the State into some categories - where they will be given economic opportunity, including the opportunity to have children, while others will be given a nice Government Welfare social community to live out their sterile days. That will finally be your Utopia iceaura.

Then you will have no worry about 'white racism' in the least iceaura. Just objective Government enforced Progressive Socialism.

Yay for you

 

[Michael]

The Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study examined the IQ test scores of 130 black or interracial children adopted by advantaged white families. The aim of the study was to determine the contribution of environmental and genetic factors to the poor performance of black children on IQ tests as compared to white children. The initial study was published in 1976 by Sandra Scarr and Richard A. Weinberg. A follow-up study was published in 1992 by Richard Weinberg, Sandra Scarr and Irwin D. Waldman. Another related study investigating social adjustment in a subsample of the adopted black children was published in 1996. One of the studies' findings was the IQs of adopted black children reared by white families did not differ significantly from that of black children raised by their biological parents.

On measures of cognitive ability (IQ tests) and school performance, black children in the U.S. have traditionally performed worse than white children. At the time of the study, the gap in average performance between the two groups of children was approximately one standard deviation, which is equivalent to about 15 IQ points or 4 grade levels at high school graduation. Thus, the average IQ score of black children in the U.S. was approximately 85, compared to the average score of white children of 100. No detectable bias due to test construction or administration had been found, although this does not rule out other biases. The gap is functionally significant, which makes it an important area of study. The Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study tried to answer whether the gap is primarily caused by genetic factors or whether it is primarily caused by environmental and cultural factors.

--o--
Of course, iceaura will claim we didn't randomise the wombs. It was the pesty womb randomization all along! Sure, it may be true that there is something about the 'wombs'. And it may be a coincidence that the IQ did not differ significantly from that of black children raised by their biological parents. Given the most recent data, that shows IQ is mostly genetic (up to 85%), the more reasonable conclusion would be that the kids reached their biological IQ, just as most children do. Biological IQ is so powerful, that even parenting styles across a lifetime, have no significant effect. Which is why we see E. Asians with the highest IQ scores (on average) and they are subsequently in the highest socioeconomic stratum in our supposed 'white patriarchy'.

Of course, none of this matters, because just as the Science was Heretical 1000 years ago, it's Heretical to the Statists Religion today. Exactly the same. Which is what I find interesting.


Science denial is now the accepted norm. Welcome to 100 years of Government Schooling finally bearing fruit.
LOL
Insane.

We're literally watching the end of Western Civilisation - to the cheers of Westerners. That's fascinating. Of course, it was baked in the cake.

 

[iceaura]

8. There is no good evidence white racism affects the IQ of black people in the USA
9. There is no good evidence blacks are being purposely poisoned by whites.
10. There is no good evidence that blacks are purposely malnourished by whites.
11. There is no good evidence that exposure to lead, noise or pollution is lowering the national average IQ score for blacks living in America (around 85)

8 and 11 are false, as can be seen by reviewing this thread.

More interestingly: 9 and 10 are deceptive, and reveal that the absurd denier is in some sense aware of the falsity of the claims if made honestly.

That's interesting, because the level of awareness of the absurd denier is a key question - they often seem to be aware that there is something wrong with what they are claiming, and exactly what is going on there is significant.

I see we need a summary:
1. Between 50 - 85% of an IQ score is genetic.
- - -
(more of the same)
- - -
7. Structural racism, such as laws that lower the SAT score required for admission to higher education, are biased in favor of black applicants.

None of that is relevant, and your denial of Jim Crow remains.
Or as posted:

You just claimed that some hypothetical half-assed government school test prep boosted the average population IQ score of the entire US by 20 points, where earlier you had denied anything - even lead poisoning, stress, stereotype threat, poor diet, bad schooling, etc - could move even an individual's IQ score by 15 points.

The reason you are getting tied up in knots like this is your overwhelming need to defend an absurd denial of physical and historical reality. You are trying to deny Jim Crow, and rendering yourself unable to reason in the process.

And this is typical of the absurd denial.

 

[Syne]

Wow, the conspiracy theories needed to justify calling other deniers is truly rich.

 

[Michael]

From: The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education

Study after study, across ALL human populations, ALL adoption studies, for decades and decades find that ADULT IQ is mostly biological, is resistant to parenting style, and explains socioeconomic status.

 

[Michael]

Wow, the conspiracy theories needed to justify calling other deniers is truly rich.

Isn't it amazing?

Could you imagine entertaining the CT that white people are actually physically lowering the IQ of black people in the USA?!? I mean, this is making the claim white people are committing a War Crime against black children in the USA. Insane.
Utterly insane.

But, classic Progressive Socialism. Many Progressives were Eugenists, naturally of course. The core of the Socialist's Ideology is the idea of using State Authoritarianism against morally innocent Citizens for the good of the nation because we use the roads. Thus, Progressives naturally wanted to sterilise any Citizens (white, black, yellow) that they thought would have produced children who would not be good for their Collectivist hive-mind / Nation State / "Society".

The Alt-Left should be renamed Borg-lite

 

[iceaura]

Study after study, across ALL human populations, ALL adoption studies, for decades and decades find that ADULT IQ is mostly biological, is resistant to parenting style, and explains socioeconomic status.

You claimed, above, that government schooling and test prep added twenty points to the average American IQ since 1948.
You also were presented with the well known facts that diet, sleep quality, heavy metal exposure, and various stress inducers (maternal and societal and developmental) affect IQ. You yourself have pointed out that familial inheritance strongly influences IQ. So do music lessons

And so forth.

Study after study, across ALL human populations, ALL adoption studies, for decades and decades find that ADULT IQ is mostly biological, is resistant to parenting style, and explains socioeconomic status.

According to your posted table, a white SAT of 978 is worth less than 10% of the income and socioeconomic status of a black SAT of 981 - within the margin of error of the SAT. You also contend that SAT and IQ scores are proxies for each other. So by your table race is far more important than IQ, in determining socioeconomic status.

Could you imagine entertaining the CT that white people are actually physically lowering the IQ of black people in the USA?!? I mean, this is making the claim white people are committing a War Crime against black children in the USA. Insane.
Utterly insane.

And Flint, Michigan, never happened. Miscegenation laws never had any effects. The Great Migration is fake history.

You are denying Jim Crow. You're calling it a "conspiracy theory". And then calling other people insane.

 

[Syne]

Isn't it amazing?

Could you imagine entertaining the CT that white people are actually physically lowering the IQ of black people in the USA?!? I mean, this is making the claim white people are committing a War Crime against black children in the USA. Insane.
Utterly insane.

But, classic Progressive Socialism. Many Progressives were Eugenists, naturally of course. The core of the Socialist's Ideology is the idea of using State Authoritarianism against morally innocent Citizens for the good of the nation because we use the roads. Thus, Progressives naturally wanted to sterilise any Citizens (white, black, yellow) that they thought would have produced children who would not be good for their Collectivist hive-mind / Nation State / "Society".

The Alt-Left should be renamed Borg-lite

True. There's a reason all truly socialist states ultimately resort to murdering dissenters. Socialism cannot compete in a free market of ideas, so like the current trend of denouncing free speech, violence must escalate against any who do not toe the state line, mainstream, scientific consensus, or whatever the latest euphemism may be. Conspiracy theories are needed to justify the unjustifiable.

 

[iceaura]

True. There's a reason all truly socialist states ultimately resort to murdering dissenters

Now if one could only hold the absurd deniers to those kinds of claims, with reason and so forth - so that any State that did not murder dissenters would therefore not be "truly socialist".

Then we could get decent medical insurance and care in this country - by imitating one of those working setups the rest of the First World has set up, without having to battle through a fog of yahoo "socialism" rants.

 

[Michael]

According to your posted table, a white SAT of 978 is worth less than 10% of the income and socioeconomic status of a black SAT of 981 - within the margin of error of the SAT. You also contend that SAT and IQ scores are proxies for each other. So by your table race is far more important than IQ, in determining socioeconomic status.

We already know most IQ is genetic, that's established. We also know that high-IQ people are more likely be of a higher socioeconomic status, that's a strong correlation. The table suggests that the children of high-income black families have an IQ similar to the IQ of low-income white families. Or around the average for the black population. Which is reasonable if we assume that the average IQ for a black American, is the average. Numerous studies show that high-IQ people are more likely to make more money, but their children are more likely to have an IQ closer to the average, a regression to the mean. Which works out quite well in monocultural societies. Nobody sees "IQ" and due to a regression to the mean, no one feels left out, it all appears 'fair'. In our multicultural societies, not only are people less likely to engage socially, but there's visible difference - this leads to overgeneralization. Which is what you are doing.

The fact is, 1 in 5 black Americans (assuming an IQ average of 85) have a higher IQ than the average white American.

And Flint, Michigan, never happened.

LOL
You're now claiming 'white racism' is the cause of governmental incompetence in a city that's nearly 50% white and black? HAHAHAHA!

No need for conspiracy theories iceaura, this is a classic example of democratic 'leadership'. It's why we need a LIMITED government, one that doesn't have the unfair advantage to steal resources/tax productive people because the only thing these morons are skilled at is demagoguery. Other than bullsh*tting for a living, most of these 'public servants' are barely literate.

The people of Flint were poised by their incompetent democrat "leaders", oh, I mean public "servants of The People".


Anyone who is wondering why society is going down the shitter, well, one thing you need to know is that government employees are some of the more self-absorbed, incompetent, overly-paid bureaucrats in the world. Long-term planning would be filed under "When is my next vacation". Most cities are financially insolvant and are trying everything possible (including mass immigration when allowed) to come up with the tax base to pay off their humongous 6 figure retirement packages.

Anyway, expect lead in the water to be the norm in the future as Americans get used to living in a Progressive Socialist Utopia where an Authoritarian Government regualtes all aspects of your life, to the point you can be raided for selling raw milk.

Miscegenation laws never had any effects.

Not on IQ. See: E. Asian Americans 105-107 IQ.

It should be noted it was the Progressive Socialists who pushed for Eugenics, and when they couldn't legally sterilize the 'undesirable' populations (which included E. Asians), they passed these laws to prevent 'contamination'. They did the same thing in Europe.

They're sick in the head.

You are denying Jim Crow.

Jim Crow also didn't affect IQ, which the science shows is mostly genetic.

 

[Michael]

Oh yes:

1) Do you think the requirement a Government license to practice medicine in the USA or should we have a free-market in healthcare?

2) If we were to measure the average IQ of white people living in Asia, and found their IQ was almost a full standard deviation lower on spatial reasoning, would you support the claim that yellow racism is affecting the IQ of white people living in Asia? OR, just maybe, that's the biological difference between the average IQs of yellow and white people?


The IQ of white people living in Asia is lower than that of yellow people (on average) it is reasonable to expect white people to be in a lower socioeconomic class over time. As a matter of fact, this has happened in the USA where white people are in fact, in a lower economic stratum relative to yellow people. Not because yellow people were restricted from marrying white people (which they were by the bye) or because yellow people are part of some 'racist' yellow patriarchy - but because yellow people are different from white people genetically giving them (on average) an advantage in our Progressive Socialist Utopia where 'Land of the Free' has been replaced with "Land of the Rent-Seeker'.

 

[Michael]

Socialism cannot compete in a free market of ideas, so like the current trend of denouncing free speech, violence must escalate against any who do not toe the state line, mainstream, scientific consensus, or whatever the latest euphemism may be.

And that's exactly what happened to PewDiePie on YouTube (and red-pilled him). The fact is, Socialists require State Authoritarianism to survive economically. Whereas Individualists don't. I know quite a few people who would happily define their position as 'Left' - very very few have opened businesses of their own, and even fewer donate to charity. Primarily they have a warped sense of what is fair, and an even weirder notion of society / The Collective / The Borg.

This study: Correlation not causation: the relationship between personality traits and political ideologies.
Am J Pol Sci. 2012;56(1):34-51.

According to their data, Liberal political beliefs are linked with psychoticism.

The Authors corrected their study and write:

The interpretation of the coding of the political attitude items in the descriptive and preliminary analyses portion of the manuscript was exactly reversed. Thus, where we indicated that higher scores in Table 1 (page 40) reflect a more conservative response, they actually reflect a more liberal response. Specifically, in the original manuscript, the descriptive analyses report that those higher in Eysenck’s psychoticism are more conservative, but they are actually more liberal; and where the original manuscript reports those higher in neuroticism and social desirability are more liberal, they are, in fact, more conservative.
​

They also suggest that the differences are genetic:

....the correlation between the two is a function of an innate common underlying genetic factor.​

It seems reasonable to conclude there is something genetically (wrong?) with Progressive Socialists. Of course, in their world, they think they're 'normal'. In the real world, objective measurements strongly correlate their political beliefs with psychoticism. Of course, this makes good sense to those of us on the outside looking in, they're Statist Authoritarians. And they would and do happily use the State to murder morally innocent humans trapped within their geopolitical grasp (for the good of society of course). I mean, can you imagine shooting a dairy farmer selling raw milk? Or this idea that preparing food for children (okay), selling THAT SAME FOOD to an adult (without a magically State license), or GASP butter! .... well, then you're fair game for a Progressive good-for-society bullet to the head.

Just stop and think about the fundamental underlying assumption Socialists (like Bernie Sanders) make: The initiation of violence against morally innocent Citizens is 'good' for society. Sure, they're come up with every which way to Sunday to post-hoc justify this axiom. Everything from "The Russians" to "The Jews" to "The Right" to "The White"... and etc... It's probably encoded in their DNA itself.

That's fascinating.

It's why democracy requires LIMITED government - very very very very limited government. Limited to the most basic role in society, preferably limited right out of existence.

 

[iceaura]

Jim Crow also didn't affect IQ, which the science shows is mostly genetic.

Yes, it did, and still does - the only question is how much. (Just for starters, we know that Jim Crow affected the genetics).

We already know most IQ is genetic, that's established.

You have no idea what you are talking about. IQ is genetic, height is genetic, lifespan is genetic - so? Jim Crow remains, and so does your denial of Jim Crow.

You're now claiming 'white racism' is the cause of governmental incompetence in a city that's nearly 50% white and black? HAHAHAHA!

A cause. Yep. And I am pointing to your absurd denial of that physical and historical fact, to illustrate the lengths to which an absurd denier will go in defending even the most obvious of nonsense.

The people of Flint were poised by their incompetent democrat "leaders", oh, I mean public "servants of The People".

No, they weren't. That is false. You are denying historical and physical facts. For example:
http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2015/03/flint_emergency_manager_calls.html

The IQ of white people living in Asia is lower than that of yellow people (on average) it is reasonable to expect white people to be in a lower socioeconomic class over time.

And for the second or third time (you keep repeating this goofy irrelevancy about the Chinese) we simply note that after hundreds of years that hasn't happened. There have been lower IQ white people in China as long as there have been lower IQ black people in the US - with much different consequences. So your expectation is contradicted by physical and historical fact - again.

Not on IQ. See: E. Asian Americans 105-107 IQ.

? Still banging on about Asians, carefully omitting certain groups of them, as if your denial of Jim Crow would be somehow justified by Chinese IQ scores.

Are you sending yourself up on purpose? No - you are caught up in an absurd denial, and it is crippling your mental abilities.

 

[iceaura]

It seems reasonable to conclude there is something genetically (wrong?) with Progressive Socialists.

That would depend on who you were talking about, with your term "Progressive Socialist". Since you don't know, and haven't been able to make the least bit of sense in your many, many uses of that term, none of your conclusions will be reasonable - even if you are correct, it would be by accident.

 

[Michael]

1) Do you think the requirement a Government license to practice medicine in the USA or should we have a free-market in healthcare?

2) If we were to measure the average IQ of white people living in Asia, and found their IQ was almost a full standard deviation lower on spatial reasoning, would you support the claim that yellow racism is affecting the IQ of white people living in Asia? OR, just maybe, that's the biological difference between the average IQs of yellow and white people?

 

[Michael]

Yes, it did, and still does - the only question is how much. (Just for starters, we know that Jim Crow affected the genetics).

Which is why we say significantly effected.

You don't know if the genetics would have been significantly different as opposed to insignificantly different. Likewise, you don't know if IQ is significantly different, and all the good evidence suggests it's not significantly different from the null average.

 

[Michael]

A cause. Yep.

LOL

In iceaura's world, white people and their white racism are to blame for why incompetent white and black Democratic morons ran Flint into the ground. White racism is why black and white public servants made incompetent decisions regarding the city's financial planning leading to a water crises and poisoning a city with about 50% low IQ white and blacks (who voted for these Democratic morons thinking they were going to get some free shit back in the 80 - 90's; instead of investing for their future).

Yup evil White People strike again.

LOL

What an insane world you've created for yourself. Welcome to the World view of your typical socialist.

Baizuo indeed.

 

[Michael]

Still banging on about Asians, carefully omitting certain groups of them, as if your denial of Jim Crow would be somehow justified by Chinese IQ scores.

"Banging on about".... LOL

IQ measurements in Canada (not just Canada, everywhere in the world, across ethnicity, culture, geography, etc...) all IQ studies have found the exact same pattern as in the USA: E. Asians score approximately 107, white people 100 and black people 85.

Canada didn't have the Jim Crows Laws of the Southern USA - and yet the IQ averages are the same as in the USA (and everywhere else in the world). Which is reasonable, IQ score (an indirect score of brain function) is mostly genetic.

That's the Scientific Consensus.
The Scientific Consensus is that IQ is mostly genetic (for white people, most Scientists in the field agree that IQ is at least 75% genetic).

To make up a Conspiracy Story about how 'White Racism' is lowering the IQ of black people - is Science Denial and bigotry. It doesn't explain the data in Canada. It doesn't explain the repeatability across the world. It doesn't explain the averages in Africa.

In short, you're a Science Denier.

Worse still, you appear to be a bigot too. Luckily for you, bigotry against Whites just so happens to be all the rage on the Left. What a coinkydink huh?

Note: Jim Crow Laws in California against Chinese had no significant effect on the IQ scores of E. Asians (which is higher than white people, by the bye).



No one disagrees that the average IQ of black people living in the USA is 85, do you favor using the Government to limit State-regulated professional licensing to those who score the highest on various Government approved State-administered IQ-like tests? Or, would you favor a free-market, in say: Healthcare?

 

[iceaura]

IQ measurements in Canada (not just Canada, everywhere in the world, across ethnicity, culture, geography, etc...) all IQ studies have found the exact same pattern as in the USA: E. Asians score approximately 107, white people 100 and black people 85.

So?
Your numbers are out of date, btw - the B/W gap in the US has closed to within 10 points, not 15.

Canada didn't have the Jim Crows Laws of the Southern USA - and yet the IQ averages are the same as in the USA (and everywhere else in the world).

Canada had, and has, racial bigotry - not as rabid as the US, but perfectly consistent with the Jim Crow reference term I am using.
Most of Canada's black people that were tested at 85 - that would be decades ago, now - were the same people as the northern US blacks: refugees from the Confederate south. Canada was also poorer than the US at the time, with less sunlight and a lower quality diet, while the black refugees tended to cluster in the border cities most like the US in terms of lead exposure and so forth. Just sayin'.

The averages for black people in Africa clustered around 70, not 85, at the time, btw. But they've been rising along with everyone else's as the years go by - there have been some amazing genetic changes in just a couple of decades, all over the world, wouldn't you say?

And so forth

To make up a Conspiracy Story about how 'White Racism' is lowering the IQ of black people - is Science Denial and bigotry.

To acknowledge Jim Crow and its many effects is to avoid absurd denial of observed reality.

Meanwhile, I'm still looking at a table you posted that says boosting SAT scores - a proxy for IQ, you claim - from 978 to 981 will boost one's likely annual income from less than 20k to more than 200k. Ignoring race.

The absurdity of your denial of Jim Crow would not go away because you showed other people were bigoted - even if you did.

 

[Michael]

To acknowledge Jim Crow and its many effects is to avoid absurd denial of observed reality.

One more time, Jim Crow Laws against the Chinese living in CA did not affect their IQ, which is measured at 107. This is good evidence that you are incorrect and that while Jim Crow Laws affected individual people, it had no effect on the IQ of their children - which makes sense, IQ scores are mostly related to one's genetics.