Helium running out!

[ElectricFetus]

I really don't think we are going to get rid of birthday parties

Who said anything about getting rid of birthday parties? What, can't have a birthday party without helium filled balloons??? Jesus your spoiled!

Helium depletion should be regarded seriously. What other sources could the gas come from? The sun and gas giant planets have tons of the stuff. There should be a way to design a method to extract the element from those extreterrestrial bodies, but doing it in their immense gravitational field is daunting. We already have enough challenges building a space elevator on earth!

I probably would be easier to make helium from nuclear fusion then to mine it from gas giants.

 

[spidergoat]

Helium is precious stuff, because it is the most inert element imaginable so if you tried to, say, vacuum weld two metals together you can use helium instead of trying to create ultra-high vacuum conditions, which actually consumes a lot of energy.

Helium depletion should be regarded seriously. What other sources could the gas come from? The sun and gas giant planets have tons of the stuff. There should be a way to design a method to extract the element from those extreterrestrial bodies, but doing it in their immense gravitational field is daunting. We already have enough challenges building a space elevator on earth!

You could use nitrogen or argon.

 

[ElectricFetus]

We make all of our xenon from air, and xenon is 1/60 as common per volume in air then helium, so its not impossible to imagine mining helium out of our atmosphere, its is just condensing helium out of air requires several more steps (pre-cooling) which is why existing atmosphere condensers do not make all the other gaseous but helium, at present there is no economical reason for them to pay for the equipment to extract helium.

 

[swivel]

Who said anything about getting rid of birthday parties? What, can't have a birthday party without helium filled balloons??? Jesus your spoiled!.

I don't see how conserving apostrophes and hyphens is helping. :shrug:

 

[ElectricFetus]

I don't see how conserving apostrophes and hyphens is helping. :shrug:

I'll accept that as you admitting you misconstrued my argument, your apology is accepted.

 

[John Connellan]

There should be a way to design a method to extract the element from those extreterrestrial bodies, but doing it in their immense gravitational field is daunting.

Not to mention, it's rather warm up there

 

[John Connellan]

We make all of our xenon from air, and xenon is 1/60 as common per volume in air then helium, so its not impossible to imagine mining helium out of our atmosphere, its is just condensing helium out of air requires several more steps (pre-cooling) which is why existing atmosphere condensers do not make all the other gaseous but helium, at present there is no economical reason for them to pay for the equipment to extract helium.

Yeah but most of that helium is at very high altitude isn't it? That causes more problems in itself

 

[ElectricFetus]

Yeah but most of that helium is at very high altitude isn't it? That causes more problems in itself

Well yes at high altitudes helium percentage increases and becomes the dominate gas near the end of the thermosphere but I believe the measure of ~5.25 ppm is a measure at sea level.

The problems of helium cooling is one related to a phenomena (I can't remember the name of) in which certain gases like helium (and I think Neon) will heat upon expanding unless below a temperature far below room temperature, all gases behave this way beyond a certain temperature (as such we are use to the "normal" condition of a gas cooling upon expanding) but helium must be brought to cryogenic temperatures before it can be cooled via traditional methods of cooling a gas by expanding it rapidly.

Here are some really "cool" videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw6h4K6begA

 

[Read-Only]

Well yes at high altitudes helium percentage increases and becomes the dominate gas near the end of the thermosphere but I believe the measure of ~5.25 ppm is a measure at sea level.

The problems of helium cooling is one related to a phenomena (I can't remember the name of) in which certain gases like helium (and I think Neon) will heat upon expanding unless below a temperature far below room temperature, all gases behave this way beyond a certain temperature (as such we are use to the "normal" condition of a gas cooling upon expanding) but helium must be brought to cryogenic temperatures before it can be cooled via traditional methods of cooling a gas by expanding it rapidly.

I believe that what you are trying to think of is "critical pressure and temperature."

At any value above those you cannot liquefy any gas - no matter what.

And no, no gas simply heats up upon expanding - they all become cooler and will readily absorb more heat.

The problem with liquefying both helium and hydrogen is that they require MANY stages of compression along with using other cryogenic liquids (like oxygen and nitrogen) that are allowed to boil to remove the heat in the latter compression stages. Thus, it's a fairly complex and expensive process overall.

 

[John Connellan]

Well yes at high altitudes helium percentage increases and becomes the dominate gas near the end of the thermosphere but I believe the measure of ~5.25 ppm is a measure at sea level.

Wow, I never realized He was in such abundance! I mean, methane is only present at just under 2 ppm and that is considered a mixing ratio large enough to be a concern for greenhouse effects.

 

[ElectricFetus]

And no, no gas simply heats up upon expanding - they all become cooler and will readily absorb more heat.

Nope, found it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule-Thomson_inversion_temperature

Helium and hydrogen are two gases whose Joule–Thomson inversion temperatures at a pressure of one atmosphere are very low (e.g., about 51 K (−222 °C) for helium). Thus, helium and hydrogen warm up when expanded at constant enthalpy at typical room temperatures. On the other hand nitrogen and oxygen, the two most abundant gases in air, have inversion temperatures of 621 K (348 °C) and 764 K (491 °C) respectively: these gases can be cooled from room temperature by the Joule–Thomson effect.[1]

For an ideal gas, μJT is always equal to zero: ideal gases neither warm nor cool upon being expanded at constant enthalpy.

So first to cool helium you need to pre-cool it below its "The Joule–Thomson coefficient" temperatures. Multiple expansion stages I think are common amongst all gas condensers.

 

[swivel]

I'll accept that as you admitting you misconstrued my argument, your apology is accepted.

You should check the batteries in your Satire Meter.

 

[ElectricFetus]

You should check the batteries in your Satire Meter.

you should check that pain in your ass.

 

[Roman]

I'm very aware of that, I just figure recreation usage of helium is something we can cut out very easily. Now getting a GC to recycle its helium, a lot harder to do.

It will be cut out as soon as the prices begin to rise.

 

[gluon]

http://www.scientificblogging.com/news_releases/next_on_the_endangered_list_helium

Look for the price of helium to begin rising rapidly very soon. Supplies could be virtually gone in our lifetime

Oh no... no helium gas to make our balloons float and make our voices go all funny

 

[swivel]

Oh no... no helium gas to make our balloons float and make our voices go all funny

I know. I hope Obama puts this high on his list.

 

[weed_eater_guy]

I know. I hope Obama puts this high on his list.

Praise Obama, the exalted one, the holiest of holy dieties, for securing my right as an American citizen to inhale helium and sing "Follow the Yellow Brick Road" until I pass out!

 

[Billy T]

About 40+ years ago, when I began to work on the controlled fusion program I realized the helium produced by fusion would be insignificant compared the helium lost in just keeping superconducting magnets cold.

I then leaned that some natural gas wells, mainly in Texas area, were the US’s main source of He, but it was not being recovered then as the demand (sales of He) did not pay for the cost of running the government's He recovery plant. (Helium was then, probably still is, one of the "critical materials" the government stockpiles.)

After that I realized that contrary to what one might naturally think, He balloons at celebrations etc. were essential to saving He for future needs. When that separation / storage plant did not operate, the He went unburned thru many gas stoves etc and was lost forever.

I do not know if this is still true, but someone should look into that before opposing this "frivolous use" of a very limited resource in He balloons.

 

[BenTheMan]

Wow, I never realized He was in such abundance! I mean, methane is only present at just under 2 ppm and that is considered a mixing ratio large enough to be a concern for greenhouse effects.

Well, helium doesn't contribute to the greenhouse effect because it doesn't absorb/emit light in the IR.

 

[Billy T]

Well, helium doesn't contribute to the greenhouse effect because it doesn't absorb/emit light in the IR.

That is quite correct. The first excited state of He is 22 (or was it 24?) ev above the ground state - not even the sun is radiating many photons with at much energy - the Earth is thermally radiating essentially none. (A wild guess: one per second for the entire Earth.)

Actually, He may have a "negative GHG effect" as it can collisionally depopulate an excited state that might have larger absorption cross section for the IR the Earth does radiate.