And I don’t think it’s good to speculate, unless you know everything there is to no know about a soul, and how it works, its every single detail.
It’s obvious, that Dr. Alexander has a deep need to believe.
Heaven is real, says neurosurgeon
- Thread starter arauca
- Start date
And I don’t think it’s good to speculate, unless you know everything there is to no know about a soul, and how it works, its every single detail.
It’s obvious, that Dr. Alexander has a deep need to believe.
You make it sound like this was a controlled scientific experiment. It is all very subjective. It was not empirical in the sense that you could make a graph or table of numbers. The subject would have no idea when his experience occurred. It could have occurred before or after the blood absence. I have heard that the brain releases DMT into the brain system during trauma like this. DMT distorts time perception, seconds can seem like hours, even longer. The effects of DMT are described as hyper-real, though not like normal reality. But descriptions of the experience often fall back to concepts in our common context, such as clouds, birds, beams of light, etc. Often there is the impression of entities that are trying to communicate or maybe just present. DMT is of the same family of chemicals as many hallucinogens and serotonin. Note that DMT does not alter your feeling of being yourself. They say it is like being transported to a different universe. Mostly perceptual, while the "you" is still intact.
Also one function in the conscious brain produces a kind of storyline. It is how you view and keep track your life and daily existence. If memory is scrambled it will most likely try and assemble a story out of the damaged memory. It relies on the context of past memories and when those fail to give good matches it falls back to fabulation. I have experienced false memories while coming out of sleep. It can be very strange. But luckily it normally fades because the memories don't fit in with the real story. For instance I had a false memory of a place I know I had never visited, and in fact the place does not exist.
The brain is an amazing machine that can produce many strange experiences that are at odds with reality. Telepathic communication with aliens and etheric spirits for instance. Even crazy evil clowns and cartoon characters can appear in visions. These experiences can be produced through trauma, shock, chemicals/drugs, even some foods. And of course in your case: willful delusion.
:yawn::fart:
Truth? You call what this man described as a "truth"? Educated people only ask for facts not "personall feelings" about what truth is. What this man is telling us is what he only thinks happened to him based on what he thought was going on but cannot be presented as factual for how can anyone prove heaven exists with just "believing" that it does? If I told you I saw three goldfish swimming in a cloud, would you think I did or that you would want more proof as to what I actually saw? If you think that I saw goldfish swimming in a cloud then it is you that needs to get back to school to figure out what happened to your education.
The question here isn't whether anyone knows everything about something, but whether there is sufficient information to reach a correct conclusion. A huge part of being correct involves adopting the truth of natural law. So it's really not hard to know the correct answer.
The law that can not be repealed is that it takes a living brain to host a sentient mind. That would be the part that only takes a little common sense to figure out. Most folks who've ever experienced fainting, or who've been knocked out for any reason, could pretty well rely on their intuition to arrive at the correct answer here. But, as I said before, the slightest amount of science would help if there's trouble applying common sense. In this case you would want to look into those regions of the brain that are needed to host the conscious mind. And that would begin at the brain stem and reach to at least some regions of the cerebral cortex.
When those regions are destroyed by injury or disease, the mind ceases to exist altogether. That's simply how nature works, and it's not subject to opinion or belief. Nature isn't affected by human belief. It proceeds under laws that are invariant to our hopes and wishes.
Your wish or hope that you will continue to live after you die is fine, as long as you confine that belief to a condition that doesn't overturn the laws of nature. You simply don't get to take your mind with you, Gravage.
If you need some ancillary facts to help you reason this out, consider the mentally ill. Do you suppose a severely retarded person would live on after death as a retarded mind or not? Consider people severely disabled by psychosis, who live in a fog of hallucinations. Do they live on after death in same terror, haunted by the belief that they are covered with insects, or that birds are attacking them, etc.? And the deaf, do they live on deaf or not? (And what is there to hear without any stimulus? Where is there any sound?) I'm sure you're aware that brain injury can produce blindness and deafness. For the same reason, a brain dead person has no capacity to process the stimulus from the optic and auditory pathways. In fact, the pathways are easily shut down simply by falling into a deep sleep. Brain death is even deeper than that. There is not even any minimal activity to regulate the body functions without the assistance of life support.
The question of whether God exists has no bearing on this. That's just an assumption you're making. If you notice, there is no case in which the laws of nature are ever suspended by God. That's just a extrapolation founded on religious belief which requires you to deny reality. Obviously if you're going to accept the existence of God, you're stuck with the problem of why nature never bows to His will or intervention as you require.
As sure as the sun will rise, your mind will cease to exist when your brain stops functioning. You were simply lied to as a child and haven't completely come to grips with it.
I was debating with my self, to take part or not take part, in this particular topic....
been following the post since it started...
I think this current topic can go on forever to become the longest ever thread on forums, with out ever being closer to agreement between opossing sides.
Heres my to cents.
point 1.
Theres no sicentific proff that supports the idea of heaven.
point 3.
No one knows the truth... We can't prove that heaven exists, neither can we prove that it dosnt.....
point 4.
Were there is no proff to support either side of opposing opinions, there can be no logical answer or agreement...
been following the post since it started...
I think this current topic can go on forever to become the longest ever thread on forums, with out ever being closer to agreement between opossing sides.
Heres my to cents.
point 1.
Theres no sicentific proff that supports the idea of heaven.
point 3.
No one knows the truth... We can't prove that heaven exists, neither can we prove that it dosnt.....
point 4.
Were there is no proff to support either side of opposing opinions, there can be no logical answer or agreement...
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
Eyewitness testimony from people who were awake and healthy and had their eyes open has, over and over again, been proven to be less than 50% reliable in court trials.
So what would you estimate the value to be of "observations" claimed by people who were ill and unconscious and had their eyes shut?
Some of the participants in this discussion seem to believe that the "testimony" of these people is more reliable than that of eyewitnesses.
Yeah right.
Now I had a dream last night in which Jesus, George Washington and Bugs Bunny told me that Roseanne Barr, the certifiably crazy TV star and the Peace and Freedom Party's candidate for President, is going to win the election. They said they know this because God told them. It's a little joke He's going to play on Americans for being so smug and self-centered. Something about how both Romney and Obama are going to be caught on camera having sex with a platypus. Bill Clinton will be shooting the video.
I called my friend Vinnie the bookie in Las Vegas and he said the odds against Roseanne winning are 100,000 to one. But it's illegal to gamble on elections so it costs him a lot in bribes and protection money, and he can't afford to bother with small bets. The minimum bet on an election is ten thousand dollars.
So if you guys will each give me a thousand bucks, I'll take it to Vegas and next month my friend will hand me back a billion dollars. We'll all be rich!
Are you up for it?
I saw this. I swear I did.
So what would you estimate the value to be of "observations" claimed by people who were ill and unconscious and had their eyes shut?
Some of the participants in this discussion seem to believe that the "testimony" of these people is more reliable than that of eyewitnesses.
Yeah right.
Now I had a dream last night in which Jesus, George Washington and Bugs Bunny told me that Roseanne Barr, the certifiably crazy TV star and the Peace and Freedom Party's candidate for President, is going to win the election. They said they know this because God told them. It's a little joke He's going to play on Americans for being so smug and self-centered. Something about how both Romney and Obama are going to be caught on camera having sex with a platypus. Bill Clinton will be shooting the video.
I called my friend Vinnie the bookie in Las Vegas and he said the odds against Roseanne winning are 100,000 to one. But it's illegal to gamble on elections so it costs him a lot in bribes and protection money, and he can't afford to bother with small bets. The minimum bet on an election is ten thousand dollars.
So if you guys will each give me a thousand bucks, I'll take it to Vegas and next month my friend will hand me back a billion dollars. We'll all be rich!
Are you up for it?
I saw this. I swear I did.
I will wire you the money as soon as you give me the bank account #'s...
I thought that these statistics were interesting. http://near-death.com/experiences/evidence06.html
What I submitted for review is the following, taken from over twenty years of study and with a research base in excess of 3,200 NDErs:
I. Context of experience: either A or B must be met:
A. Symptoms or signs suggesting serious medical illness or injury, or physiological crisis/accident of some kind; or,
B. NDEr's expectation or sense of imminent death.
II.
Content of experience: an intense awareness, sense, or experience of "otherworldiness" - whether pleasant or unpleasant, strange or ecstatic. Episode can be brief and consist of only one or two elements, or can be more involved, even lengthy, and consist of multiple elements. Elements commonly experienced are:
A. Visualizing or experiencing being apart from the physical body, perhaps with the ability to change locations.
B. Greatly enhanced cognition (thoughts very clear, rapid, and hyper-lucid).
C. A darkness or light that is perceived as alive and intelligent and powerful.
D. Sensation of movement and/or a sense of presence (hyperalert faculties).
E. Sudden overwhelming floods of emotion or feelings.
F. Encounter with an identified deceased person or animal, or an encounter with an apparently nonphysical entity.
G. Life review (like a movie or in segments, or a reliving).
H. Information can be imparted, perhaps dialogue.
III. Typical to the experience:
A. Near-death states can occur to anyone at any age, including newborns and infants, and remain vivid and coherent lifelong (unless societal or family pressure weakens memory clusters - repression more common with child NDErs than with teenagers or adults).
B. Children's episodes are usually brief and encompass few elements. The closer the child is to puberty, the greater the possibility of longer, more complicated scenarios.
C. The pattern of psychological and physiological aftereffects seems more dependent on the intensity of the experience, than on any particular imagery or length of exposure to darkness or light.
D. Attitudes and feelings significant others display after the NDEr revives directly influence how readily he or she can integrate the experience. Episode content is secondary to that initial climate of interest or disinterest.
I would also hasten to add that no matter how long the individual is without vital signs, especially pulse or breath, there is little or no brain damage afterward - rather - brain and faculty enhancement. It is not unusual for NDErs to revive in the morgue hours later (Average time without vital signs in my research base - between five to twenty minutes.). It is possible to have a NDE and not be near death. What causes near-death-like experiences is presently unknown.
Kevin Williams' NDE Analysis of Common Aspects
My research into NDE reports have been limited to those NDEs I read in published material and those sent to me by email. Because the experiences sent to me by email have not been verified, my analysis cannot be considered to be scientific. Combining all the published and email experiences, this gave me a total of fifty experiences to analyze.
For my research into finding how prevalent certain common aspects there are in these experiences, I identified twenty-one characteristics found in many NDE accounts to analyze. I classified the fifty NDEs into five distinct categories. They are:
(1) NDEs having a Christian orientation.
(2) NDEs of religious people other than Christians.
(3)
NDEs having co-called "new age" aspects to them (i.e., those experiences using such terms as "Higher Self", "karma", "avatar", etc.)Higher Self", "karma", "reincarnation", avatar", etc.).
(4)
NDEs of people who considered themselves avowed atheists before their experience.
(5)
NDEs of people who have not identified themselves with any particular religion.
These categories reflect the religious backgrounds of the NDErs before their NDE occurred. I categorized (4) as being separate from (5) because I wanted to distinguish those who held an atheistic belief system from those who held no belief system.
Someone may ask: "Why categorize NDE accounts according to religious background?" The answer is to see how a person's belief system may influence their interpretation of their NDE, if at all. I believe it also helps in quantifying correlations between a person's prior belief system and the nature of the person's NDE account.
Common Aspect Analysis
Below are the twenty-one common aspects I examined and the percentage of the total NDErs in each of the five categories that experienced each common aspect. All aspects have been ranked according their frequency of occurrence. The following is a summary of the percentages for each of the twenty-one common aspects.
Overwhelming love - The highest percentage of experiences that reported overwhelming love was in those categorized as Christians (75%) and atheists (75%). The lowest percentage of experiences reporting overwhelming love are those in the new age (60%) category. Overwhelming love was experienced in (69%) of all NDEs. This common aspect is the most frequently occurring common aspect of the twenty-one aspects; and therefore, the highest percentage. The range for this aspect in all categories is in the 60 to 70 percentile. In contrast, the lowest occurring aspect is the (0%) of experiences involving the "Devil" or "Satan."
Mental telepathy - The highest percentage of experiences where mental telepathy occurred were those in the new age (80%) category. The lowest percentage of experiences were those in the non-Christian (50%) category. Perhaps this lower percentage can be attributed to the fact that mental telepathy is considered more of a new age concept than a traditional religious concept. Mental telepathy was the number two frequently occurring aspect.
Life review - The highest percentage of experiences during which a life review occurred were reported by those in the atheist (100%) category. The lowest percentage were those in the new age (40%) and non-religious (40%) categories. Is there a correlation between atheism and experiencing a life review? Perhaps this statistic suggests that atheists need a life review more than any other type of NDEr. In general, atheists reject the concept of an afterlife altogether. A life review would certainly show them just how wrong they were. Who knows? This may be an example of how a person often "gets what they need" during a NDE.
God - The category with the highest percentage of NDErs who reported seeing a divine being were those in the new age (80%) category. The category with the lowest percentage is the non-religious (27%) category. The lower percentage suggests that fewer non-religious NDErs see a divine being. This may be an example of non-religious NDErs "getting what they expect." A divine being was seen by (75%) of those in the atheist category. This high percentage may reflect the possibility that these atheists, in general, are "getting what they need." The same percentage of Christian and non-Christian NDErs (63%) saw a divine being. This suggests that a NDEr doesn't have to be a Christian to see God.
Tremendous ecstasy - The highest category experiencing tremendous ecstasy were those in the new age (100%) group. The lowest percentage occurred in the non-Christian (38%) category. Non-religious NDErs (60%) involved tremendous ecstasy. Christian and atheist categories were in the same (50%) percentile.
Unlimited knowledge - The category with the highest percentage reporting unlimited knowledge were those in the atheist (63%) category. The category with the lowest were those in the non-religious (33%) category. The fact that more atheists received unlimited knowledge is very interesting. In general, many atheists emphasize knowledge, skepticism and science over faith. The common aspect of experiencing unlimited knowledge may be higher in atheists because they may be "getting what the desire."
Afterlife levels - The category with the highest percentage of NDErs traveling through various afterlife levels or realms were those in the new age (80%) category. The category with the lowest percentage are those in the atheist (25%) category. This statistic is interesting because NDErs in the new age category are generally more open to the concept of various afterlife realms, dimensions or levels, and out-of-body travel. Atheists who may be expecting absolutely nothing after death, may be "getting what they expect", in reference to a NDE that is somehow limited in scope.
Told not ready - The category with the highest percentage that reported being told they were not ready or some variation of this were those in the non-religious (67%) category. The lowest percentage were reported by those in the atheist (13%) category. It could probably be assumed that every NDEr returning from death is not ready to die. Otherwise, they would not have returned. What is interesting is that those in the non-religious category had the highest occurrence of being told they were not ready. This may be suggesting that those in the non-religious category "need" to be told they are not ready. Perhaps non-religious people, in general, need something that religious people AND atheists are already "getting what they expect."
Seeing the future - The category with the highest percentage who were shown the future were those in the new age (60%) category. The category with the lowest percentage were those in the non-Christian (25%) category. This statistic is interesting because it could generally be deduced that those in the new age category tend to be more open to divination, psychic prediction, fortune telling, and occult prophecies, compared to those in the other categories. Generally, Christians believe such things to be "of the devil." The suggestion that those in the new age category are more apt to see into the future during a NDE, may be another example of "getting what you expect."
Tunnel - The category with the highest percentage who reported traveling through a tunnel were those in the new age (80%) category. The lowest percentage were those in the non-religious (33%) category. All other categories were in the 30 to 40 percentile range. This particular aspect appears to be greatly skewed in favor of the new age category. The reason for this is anyone's guess. Perhaps there is just no correlation.
Jesus - The category with the highest percentage of NDErs who report seeing Jesus were those in the Christian (81%) category. The lowest percentage were those in the non-religious (0%) category. The atheist category was (50%). The non-Christian category was (13%). The idea that more people in the Christian category see Jesus, may be an example of "getting what you expect." The most interesting statistic is that none of the non-religious NDErs saw Jesus. The reason may be because they are "getting what they expect." The reason for a relatively large percentage of atheists seeing Jesus could be that they are "getting what they need." One the other hand, it may be a reflection of the fact that Christianity is the dominant religion in the West where the vast majority of these experiences come from in my NDE analysis.
Forgotten knowledge - The category with the highest percentage receiving forgotten knowledge were those in the non-religious (47%) category. The lowest were those in the atheist (0%) category. The atheist percentage may be an example of "not getting what one does not expect." The non-religious category could be "getting what they need."
Fear - The category with the highest percentage experiencing fear were those in the atheist (50%) category. The lowest percentage were in the non-Christian (0%) and new age (0%) categories. The Christian category (44%) experienced fear. The non-religious (20%) experienced fear. Atheists are generally surprised, if not terrified, in "getting what they don't expect." The relatively high percentage in the Christian category experiencing fear may be attributed to the "God of wrath" factor. Those in the non-Christian and new age category had no fear which may be because they are "getting what they expect."
Homecoming - The category with the highest percentage receiving a homecoming were those in the Christian (31%) category. The lowest were those in the atheist (0%) category. Atheists may be "getting what they expect."
Told of past lives - The category with the highest percentage reporting past lives were those in the non-Christian (38%) category. The lowest percentage were in the atheist (13%) category. NDErs in the non-Christian category may be more open to the concept of past lives. This statistic may suggest that non-Christians are "getting what they expect" concerning this aspect. The low percentage of atheist NDErs reporting past lives may also be "getting what they expect" (i.e., no knowledge of past lives). Those in the Christian (19%) category received knowledge of past lives. This is interesting because Christianity is a religion that generally does not believe in reincarnation. What is even more interesting is that the Christian, non-religious and new age percentages were roughly the same. This puts the high non-Christian percentage in an even better perspective.
Hell - The category with the highest percentage seeing hell were those in the Christian (38%) category. The lowest percentage were those in the non-religious (0%) category. The high percentage of Christians going to hell is likely because of their firm belief in it and they are "getting what they expect" in this category. Non-religious people would be least likely to believe in hell and the statistic above may be reflecting this. They may be "getting what they expect" as well. Categories in the atheists (25%), new age (20%), and non-Christian (13%) experienced hell. The non-religious category may be "getting what they expect" because they probably did not expect seeing a hell. Perhaps one particular conclusion can be drawn from this. Assuming that atheism is a "religion," which I believe it is for some, it may be best to hold no fixed or rigid religious beliefs, as non-religious people generally do. Also, atheists NDErs sometimes erroneous believe, during their NDE, that they are unworthy of heaven. This was the case with Rev. Howard Storm during his NDE. This may be an example of a NDEr "getting what they expect."
City of light - The category with the highest percentage who reported seeing a "city of light" were those in the Christian (25%) and the atheist (25%) categories. The lowest percentage were in the non-Christian (0%) category. The "city of light" is often described as being similar to the "New Jerusalem," a heavenly city described in the Book of Revelation in the Bible. According to Revelation, this city comes down from heaven to the Earth sometime in the future. Non-Christians may not be aware of this Christian revelation and would therefore not experience it. This may be another example of people "getting what they expect."
Temple of knowledge - The category with the highest percentage reporting an experience with a Temple or Library of knowledge are those in the atheist (25%) category. No one in the non-Christian (0%) category experienced a Temple or Library. Because atheists, in general, tend to emphasize knowledge over faith, it should not be surprising that atheists are "getting what they expect."
Spirits amongst the living - The category with the highest percentage who witnessed "ghosts" or "earthbound discarnates" or so-called "demons" on Earth trying to influence the living, are the Christian (25%) category. The lowest percentages were in the non-Christian (0%), new age (0%), and atheist (0%) categories. More Christian NDErs (25%) saw spirits among the living on Earth. One possible explanation for this might be the strong belief amongst Christians in demons. This may be an example of "getting what you expect." Those in the atheists, non-religious and new age categories may be less likely to believe in so-called "demons."
Suicide - The category with the highest percentage reporting a NDE resulting from a suicide attempt is the Christian (13%) category. The lowest percentage are those in the non-Christian (0%), new age (0%), and the atheist (0%) categories. One possible explanation for this statistic is that those in the atheist, new age, and non-Christian may be more apt to have a stronger "earthly" connection than Christians who generally emphasize a "heavenly" connection. This may be an example of "getting what you need." Those in the non-religious (7%) category reported the lowest percentage of suicide attempts. Those in the non-religious category, who may identify more with life rather than death, may be less likely to kill themselves.
Devil - The only universal common aspect among all categories in my research is that no one (0%) reported seeing a "Devil" or "Devil-like" being. I believe this statistic suggests the concept of the Devil is merely a religious myth. If a Devil really did exist, it would be logical that NDErs would report seeing the Devil - especially in the hell realms. But, no NDEr in my research has reported seeing a Devil. Some Christians claim the "Being of Light" to be the Devil. However, because the "Being of Light" exudes overwhelming love, light and concern, it is very unlikely that a Devil could do this.
It should be pointed out that these statistics are not exactly scientific due to the fact that each occurrence of each aspect within each category was not gathered by personally interviewing the NDErs. This means it is possible for a characteristic to occur in a NDE, but is not expressed in the account.
The percentages displayed below are the combined percentages for all the categories. They show how common each aspect as a percentage of fifty NDEs profiled on this website.
NDE and Afterlife Statistics (50 NDEs)
Overwhelming love (69%)
Mental telepathy (65%)
Life review (62%)
God (56%)
Tremendous ecstasy (56%)
Unlimited knowledge (46%)
Afterlife levels (46%)
Told not ready (46%)
Shown the future (44%)
Tunnel (42%)
Jesus (37%)
Forgotten knowledge (31%)
Fear (27%)
Homecoming (21%)
Told of past lives (21%)
Hell (19%)
City of light (17%)
Temple of Knowledge (13%)
Spirits among the living (10%)
Suicide (6%)
Devil (0%)
These statistics show that many of these aspects are very common to NDE reports. Concerning these common elements found in NDE reports, Dr. Jeff Long states:
"NDEs are quite varied, but the consistency of the NDE elements (OBE experience, tunnel, light, meeting other beings, etc.) is striking. There is no plausible biological explanation of NDEs. There is no other human experience so dramatic, shared by so many people, and so relatively consistent in its elements. The preceding suggests faith in the validity of NDE accounts is the most reasonable conclusion from the evidence."
What I submitted for review is the following, taken from over twenty years of study and with a research base in excess of 3,200 NDErs:
I. Context of experience: either A or B must be met:
A. Symptoms or signs suggesting serious medical illness or injury, or physiological crisis/accident of some kind; or,
B. NDEr's expectation or sense of imminent death.
II.
Content of experience: an intense awareness, sense, or experience of "otherworldiness" - whether pleasant or unpleasant, strange or ecstatic. Episode can be brief and consist of only one or two elements, or can be more involved, even lengthy, and consist of multiple elements. Elements commonly experienced are:
A. Visualizing or experiencing being apart from the physical body, perhaps with the ability to change locations.
B. Greatly enhanced cognition (thoughts very clear, rapid, and hyper-lucid).
C. A darkness or light that is perceived as alive and intelligent and powerful.
D. Sensation of movement and/or a sense of presence (hyperalert faculties).
E. Sudden overwhelming floods of emotion or feelings.
F. Encounter with an identified deceased person or animal, or an encounter with an apparently nonphysical entity.
G. Life review (like a movie or in segments, or a reliving).
H. Information can be imparted, perhaps dialogue.
III. Typical to the experience:
A. Near-death states can occur to anyone at any age, including newborns and infants, and remain vivid and coherent lifelong (unless societal or family pressure weakens memory clusters - repression more common with child NDErs than with teenagers or adults).
B. Children's episodes are usually brief and encompass few elements. The closer the child is to puberty, the greater the possibility of longer, more complicated scenarios.
C. The pattern of psychological and physiological aftereffects seems more dependent on the intensity of the experience, than on any particular imagery or length of exposure to darkness or light.
D. Attitudes and feelings significant others display after the NDEr revives directly influence how readily he or she can integrate the experience. Episode content is secondary to that initial climate of interest or disinterest.
I would also hasten to add that no matter how long the individual is without vital signs, especially pulse or breath, there is little or no brain damage afterward - rather - brain and faculty enhancement. It is not unusual for NDErs to revive in the morgue hours later (Average time without vital signs in my research base - between five to twenty minutes.). It is possible to have a NDE and not be near death. What causes near-death-like experiences is presently unknown.
Kevin Williams' NDE Analysis of Common Aspects
My research into NDE reports have been limited to those NDEs I read in published material and those sent to me by email. Because the experiences sent to me by email have not been verified, my analysis cannot be considered to be scientific. Combining all the published and email experiences, this gave me a total of fifty experiences to analyze.
For my research into finding how prevalent certain common aspects there are in these experiences, I identified twenty-one characteristics found in many NDE accounts to analyze. I classified the fifty NDEs into five distinct categories. They are:
(1) NDEs having a Christian orientation.
(2) NDEs of religious people other than Christians.
(3)
NDEs having co-called "new age" aspects to them (i.e., those experiences using such terms as "Higher Self", "karma", "avatar", etc.)Higher Self", "karma", "reincarnation", avatar", etc.).
(4)
NDEs of people who considered themselves avowed atheists before their experience.
(5)
NDEs of people who have not identified themselves with any particular religion.
These categories reflect the religious backgrounds of the NDErs before their NDE occurred. I categorized (4) as being separate from (5) because I wanted to distinguish those who held an atheistic belief system from those who held no belief system.
Someone may ask: "Why categorize NDE accounts according to religious background?" The answer is to see how a person's belief system may influence their interpretation of their NDE, if at all. I believe it also helps in quantifying correlations between a person's prior belief system and the nature of the person's NDE account.
Common Aspect Analysis
Below are the twenty-one common aspects I examined and the percentage of the total NDErs in each of the five categories that experienced each common aspect. All aspects have been ranked according their frequency of occurrence. The following is a summary of the percentages for each of the twenty-one common aspects.
Overwhelming love - The highest percentage of experiences that reported overwhelming love was in those categorized as Christians (75%) and atheists (75%). The lowest percentage of experiences reporting overwhelming love are those in the new age (60%) category. Overwhelming love was experienced in (69%) of all NDEs. This common aspect is the most frequently occurring common aspect of the twenty-one aspects; and therefore, the highest percentage. The range for this aspect in all categories is in the 60 to 70 percentile. In contrast, the lowest occurring aspect is the (0%) of experiences involving the "Devil" or "Satan."
Mental telepathy - The highest percentage of experiences where mental telepathy occurred were those in the new age (80%) category. The lowest percentage of experiences were those in the non-Christian (50%) category. Perhaps this lower percentage can be attributed to the fact that mental telepathy is considered more of a new age concept than a traditional religious concept. Mental telepathy was the number two frequently occurring aspect.
Life review - The highest percentage of experiences during which a life review occurred were reported by those in the atheist (100%) category. The lowest percentage were those in the new age (40%) and non-religious (40%) categories. Is there a correlation between atheism and experiencing a life review? Perhaps this statistic suggests that atheists need a life review more than any other type of NDEr. In general, atheists reject the concept of an afterlife altogether. A life review would certainly show them just how wrong they were. Who knows? This may be an example of how a person often "gets what they need" during a NDE.
God - The category with the highest percentage of NDErs who reported seeing a divine being were those in the new age (80%) category. The category with the lowest percentage is the non-religious (27%) category. The lower percentage suggests that fewer non-religious NDErs see a divine being. This may be an example of non-religious NDErs "getting what they expect." A divine being was seen by (75%) of those in the atheist category. This high percentage may reflect the possibility that these atheists, in general, are "getting what they need." The same percentage of Christian and non-Christian NDErs (63%) saw a divine being. This suggests that a NDEr doesn't have to be a Christian to see God.
Tremendous ecstasy - The highest category experiencing tremendous ecstasy were those in the new age (100%) group. The lowest percentage occurred in the non-Christian (38%) category. Non-religious NDErs (60%) involved tremendous ecstasy. Christian and atheist categories were in the same (50%) percentile.
Unlimited knowledge - The category with the highest percentage reporting unlimited knowledge were those in the atheist (63%) category. The category with the lowest were those in the non-religious (33%) category. The fact that more atheists received unlimited knowledge is very interesting. In general, many atheists emphasize knowledge, skepticism and science over faith. The common aspect of experiencing unlimited knowledge may be higher in atheists because they may be "getting what the desire."
Afterlife levels - The category with the highest percentage of NDErs traveling through various afterlife levels or realms were those in the new age (80%) category. The category with the lowest percentage are those in the atheist (25%) category. This statistic is interesting because NDErs in the new age category are generally more open to the concept of various afterlife realms, dimensions or levels, and out-of-body travel. Atheists who may be expecting absolutely nothing after death, may be "getting what they expect", in reference to a NDE that is somehow limited in scope.
Told not ready - The category with the highest percentage that reported being told they were not ready or some variation of this were those in the non-religious (67%) category. The lowest percentage were reported by those in the atheist (13%) category. It could probably be assumed that every NDEr returning from death is not ready to die. Otherwise, they would not have returned. What is interesting is that those in the non-religious category had the highest occurrence of being told they were not ready. This may be suggesting that those in the non-religious category "need" to be told they are not ready. Perhaps non-religious people, in general, need something that religious people AND atheists are already "getting what they expect."
Seeing the future - The category with the highest percentage who were shown the future were those in the new age (60%) category. The category with the lowest percentage were those in the non-Christian (25%) category. This statistic is interesting because it could generally be deduced that those in the new age category tend to be more open to divination, psychic prediction, fortune telling, and occult prophecies, compared to those in the other categories. Generally, Christians believe such things to be "of the devil." The suggestion that those in the new age category are more apt to see into the future during a NDE, may be another example of "getting what you expect."
Tunnel - The category with the highest percentage who reported traveling through a tunnel were those in the new age (80%) category. The lowest percentage were those in the non-religious (33%) category. All other categories were in the 30 to 40 percentile range. This particular aspect appears to be greatly skewed in favor of the new age category. The reason for this is anyone's guess. Perhaps there is just no correlation.
Jesus - The category with the highest percentage of NDErs who report seeing Jesus were those in the Christian (81%) category. The lowest percentage were those in the non-religious (0%) category. The atheist category was (50%). The non-Christian category was (13%). The idea that more people in the Christian category see Jesus, may be an example of "getting what you expect." The most interesting statistic is that none of the non-religious NDErs saw Jesus. The reason may be because they are "getting what they expect." The reason for a relatively large percentage of atheists seeing Jesus could be that they are "getting what they need." One the other hand, it may be a reflection of the fact that Christianity is the dominant religion in the West where the vast majority of these experiences come from in my NDE analysis.
Forgotten knowledge - The category with the highest percentage receiving forgotten knowledge were those in the non-religious (47%) category. The lowest were those in the atheist (0%) category. The atheist percentage may be an example of "not getting what one does not expect." The non-religious category could be "getting what they need."
Fear - The category with the highest percentage experiencing fear were those in the atheist (50%) category. The lowest percentage were in the non-Christian (0%) and new age (0%) categories. The Christian category (44%) experienced fear. The non-religious (20%) experienced fear. Atheists are generally surprised, if not terrified, in "getting what they don't expect." The relatively high percentage in the Christian category experiencing fear may be attributed to the "God of wrath" factor. Those in the non-Christian and new age category had no fear which may be because they are "getting what they expect."
Homecoming - The category with the highest percentage receiving a homecoming were those in the Christian (31%) category. The lowest were those in the atheist (0%) category. Atheists may be "getting what they expect."
Told of past lives - The category with the highest percentage reporting past lives were those in the non-Christian (38%) category. The lowest percentage were in the atheist (13%) category. NDErs in the non-Christian category may be more open to the concept of past lives. This statistic may suggest that non-Christians are "getting what they expect" concerning this aspect. The low percentage of atheist NDErs reporting past lives may also be "getting what they expect" (i.e., no knowledge of past lives). Those in the Christian (19%) category received knowledge of past lives. This is interesting because Christianity is a religion that generally does not believe in reincarnation. What is even more interesting is that the Christian, non-religious and new age percentages were roughly the same. This puts the high non-Christian percentage in an even better perspective.
Hell - The category with the highest percentage seeing hell were those in the Christian (38%) category. The lowest percentage were those in the non-religious (0%) category. The high percentage of Christians going to hell is likely because of their firm belief in it and they are "getting what they expect" in this category. Non-religious people would be least likely to believe in hell and the statistic above may be reflecting this. They may be "getting what they expect" as well. Categories in the atheists (25%), new age (20%), and non-Christian (13%) experienced hell. The non-religious category may be "getting what they expect" because they probably did not expect seeing a hell. Perhaps one particular conclusion can be drawn from this. Assuming that atheism is a "religion," which I believe it is for some, it may be best to hold no fixed or rigid religious beliefs, as non-religious people generally do. Also, atheists NDErs sometimes erroneous believe, during their NDE, that they are unworthy of heaven. This was the case with Rev. Howard Storm during his NDE. This may be an example of a NDEr "getting what they expect."
City of light - The category with the highest percentage who reported seeing a "city of light" were those in the Christian (25%) and the atheist (25%) categories. The lowest percentage were in the non-Christian (0%) category. The "city of light" is often described as being similar to the "New Jerusalem," a heavenly city described in the Book of Revelation in the Bible. According to Revelation, this city comes down from heaven to the Earth sometime in the future. Non-Christians may not be aware of this Christian revelation and would therefore not experience it. This may be another example of people "getting what they expect."
Temple of knowledge - The category with the highest percentage reporting an experience with a Temple or Library of knowledge are those in the atheist (25%) category. No one in the non-Christian (0%) category experienced a Temple or Library. Because atheists, in general, tend to emphasize knowledge over faith, it should not be surprising that atheists are "getting what they expect."
Spirits amongst the living - The category with the highest percentage who witnessed "ghosts" or "earthbound discarnates" or so-called "demons" on Earth trying to influence the living, are the Christian (25%) category. The lowest percentages were in the non-Christian (0%), new age (0%), and atheist (0%) categories. More Christian NDErs (25%) saw spirits among the living on Earth. One possible explanation for this might be the strong belief amongst Christians in demons. This may be an example of "getting what you expect." Those in the atheists, non-religious and new age categories may be less likely to believe in so-called "demons."
Suicide - The category with the highest percentage reporting a NDE resulting from a suicide attempt is the Christian (13%) category. The lowest percentage are those in the non-Christian (0%), new age (0%), and the atheist (0%) categories. One possible explanation for this statistic is that those in the atheist, new age, and non-Christian may be more apt to have a stronger "earthly" connection than Christians who generally emphasize a "heavenly" connection. This may be an example of "getting what you need." Those in the non-religious (7%) category reported the lowest percentage of suicide attempts. Those in the non-religious category, who may identify more with life rather than death, may be less likely to kill themselves.
Devil - The only universal common aspect among all categories in my research is that no one (0%) reported seeing a "Devil" or "Devil-like" being. I believe this statistic suggests the concept of the Devil is merely a religious myth. If a Devil really did exist, it would be logical that NDErs would report seeing the Devil - especially in the hell realms. But, no NDEr in my research has reported seeing a Devil. Some Christians claim the "Being of Light" to be the Devil. However, because the "Being of Light" exudes overwhelming love, light and concern, it is very unlikely that a Devil could do this.
It should be pointed out that these statistics are not exactly scientific due to the fact that each occurrence of each aspect within each category was not gathered by personally interviewing the NDErs. This means it is possible for a characteristic to occur in a NDE, but is not expressed in the account.
The percentages displayed below are the combined percentages for all the categories. They show how common each aspect as a percentage of fifty NDEs profiled on this website.
NDE and Afterlife Statistics (50 NDEs)
Overwhelming love (69%)
Mental telepathy (65%)
Life review (62%)
God (56%)
Tremendous ecstasy (56%)
Unlimited knowledge (46%)
Afterlife levels (46%)
Told not ready (46%)
Shown the future (44%)
Tunnel (42%)
Jesus (37%)
Forgotten knowledge (31%)
Fear (27%)
Homecoming (21%)
Told of past lives (21%)
Hell (19%)
City of light (17%)
Temple of Knowledge (13%)
Spirits among the living (10%)
Suicide (6%)
Devil (0%)
These statistics show that many of these aspects are very common to NDE reports. Concerning these common elements found in NDE reports, Dr. Jeff Long states:
"NDEs are quite varied, but the consistency of the NDE elements (OBE experience, tunnel, light, meeting other beings, etc.) is striking. There is no plausible biological explanation of NDEs. There is no other human experience so dramatic, shared by so many people, and so relatively consistent in its elements. The preceding suggests faith in the validity of NDE accounts is the most reasonable conclusion from the evidence."
Too long. Not reading that.
I was just reading it. It's like seeing the answers to a test. If you were a Christian, you saw this. If you were an atheist, you saw that. It's worth reading. Atheists and people who seek knowledge go to a library and have unlimited access to knowledge.
Interesting. And from a very reputable author. I see that she has a number of books out. Esp interesting to me is the one about the Indigo Children. I had to look up to see who they were.
According to the NDE study's author Atwater, the Indigo children are the "fulfillment of the Fifth World of the Mayan Calendar and other great prophesies". Normally I don't like to shoot the messenger, but in this case the source is so insanely ludicrous, that I just have to call BS. I didn't really read the whole text either. Knowing Mazulu's taste in space aliens and etherial spirits, I decided to check the source. She (the author) has a Wikipedia page too. The wiki does not mention her education but she does sport a "Dr" in front of her name. Further looking shows that her Ph.D. is "honorable", no mention of who awarded that title. Evidently her specialty is transpersonal hypnotism.
Of course as usual, the most interesting part of Mazulu's post is that he is completely oblivious to the fact that the source of the study is complete crap. He believes this stuff so much he thinks it is main stream.
I think she did a great job of reviewing the experiences of 3200 NDE'ers and categorizing the results as percentages. If you can access the raw data and want to classify it yourself, be my guest.
It probably depends upon the definition of each NDE'er. But it sounds like if you don't believe in God, HEY! YOU GET TO MEET GOD! How awesome is that?
There is no proof in most areas of science either, does that mean we can make no logical conclusions about what is likely? No. If someone had an NDE and brought back information that could not have been known to the person, I would consider that an argument in favor of NDEs. For instance, if they saw a murderer who told them where a body was buried, then we went and found a body, that would be supportive. So far all we have is an argument from authority. But why should we believe a neurosurgeon any more than some homeless guy ranting in a bus shelter? No reason at all if it has nothing to do with neurosurgery.
The skeptics argument is that even if the patient is clinically dead and their EKG is flat, that somehow the brain can conjure up 3200+ near death experiences. Maybe skeptics should call it the "zombie brain hypothesis".
Really?