Have you ever noticed?...

Ok, thanks. So what's keeping us from going faster ? Just curious. I would imagine they would keep pushing the envelope. Especially with unmanned craft.
Materials mainly.
Once you're at Mach 5 the aerodynamic heating problems are tremendous (hence "thermal thicket"), and surfaces exposed to airflow stabilise at temperatures that are, um, not conducive to prolonged fatigue life or even structural stability.

Yes I understand, I was trying to make the point that it was a circular problem. They only show us what they want to, so what are they hiding ?That starts the mind going and the crap invention begins. The problem is, we don't want them to show us all their cards, so the cycle never ends. Because we never get to see the latest, but I understand what you are saying. The sure bet into understanding where the crap should end is to understand the effect physics or at least our understanding of physics will allow for. But I think that is asking too much apparently.
Ah got you.
The problem, even with seeing the latest, is that "fashions" change. XF-103 being a good example. In the 60s it was predicted that ever faster was the way to go and Republic Aircraft Corp (among others) was asked to come up with a Mach 3+ interceptor.
The engineering proved very difficult and by the time those problems were almost solved the idea was dropped. Witness the oft-quoted fact that Concorde has more time at Mach 2 than all the fighters in world put together...
You can never tell which of the currently-looked-at stuff is going to be put into service.
Remember the policy in the mid 60s? No more manned fighters. That worked out well. ;)

This might get you going. Man U all the way against Barca !
Not interested in soccer at all, so that means nothing to me. :p
 
The point is that we don't know which it is. However, as far as the triangles go, we know what it is MUCH more likely to be.

Triangles? Oh, stealth aircraft. More correctly referred to as 'delta winged'


I believe there is both to contend with.

Both what? I presume you mean both terrestrial an extra terrestrial source, but here you go being vague again.

That's because of one basic premise and that is the recorded history of observed phenomena, too similar to blatantly dismiss, over the past 10,000 years.

10,000 years? We don't have that much recorded history. And if you are talking cave paintings, you cannot apply what you think you see now, to then, the symbolism is of the era.

If these observed technological phenomena were all due to that which is of human origin, it's hard to imagine them being recorded as such 200 years ago let alone a thousand.

You load that sentence with 'technological'. People report Venus as a UFO still, and we allegedly live in the 'information age'! People used to see witches too, doesn't mean they existed, or that there wasn't a more prosaic explanation.

Unless you consider what I always have and do (note how I state "considered, as in one of many possibilities) that there exists more than one human evolutionary linage.

Total BULLSHIT. 6 Bn humans on the planet, global mapping of the Earth, all frequency radio surveillance, and somehow, this other 'lineage' escape our notice? Neanderthals died out because of competition in the same niche from cro-magnons. Unless this evolutionary branchline of yours are gnomes or dwarfs and live underground, they'd have had competition from us. Do you not understand evolution?
 
Who said I was refering neccessarily to anything you said to me?
Besides which, I didn't say that you had said anything offensive.
I referred to them as outbursts, which they are.


Bullshit.
Nothing changes the fact that EMPERICALLY SPEAKING the evidence points to Mercury being a solid at the specified temperature and pressure.
Nothing changes the fact that there is no evidence what so ever of plasmas existing in solids.
The combination of the above imply either that the claims made about the TR-3B are bullshit.
Or that the TR-3B itself is bullshit.
Or that there is a global conspiracy (Out of all the scientests in all the world of all of the opposing nations, not one single one of them has noticed that the equation of state for elemental mercury is wrong).


Bullshit
YOU are speculating about the TR-3B
I was pointing out that at least some of the claims made about the TR-3B are Bullshit.


You're making an awfully big ASSumption there.


Typical.
Crank.
Rhetoric.
"It's not that you can't find it because my claims are wrong, you can't find it because it's classified up the wazoo."


But this is nothing that I've claimed.
I understand enough thermodynamics to understand PT diagrams.
I understand enough plasma physics to understand that a plasma consists of ions.
I understand enough thermodynamics to understand that it takes 1007 kJ of energy to strip ONE electron from every atom in a 200g sample of mercury (14 ml of Mercury).
I understand enough thermodynamics to be able to tell you that pumping 1007 kJ of energy into 200g of mercury (to completely ionize that sample, and turn it into a plasma) is sufficient to heat that sample up to nearly 36,000 k.
I understand enlough of the english language to know that when someone talks about making a plasma flow in a tight helix fast enough that it's doing thousands of RPM, they're talking about something in a liquid or gaseous state, not a solid state, which is contradictary of the stated operating conditions.
I know enough to know that your claims would require the classification of pretty much anything to do with condensed matter physics.
I also know enough to know that your claims would also require classification of Maxwells Equations, and pretty much anything to do with Ferrite, because that would endanger the USAF stealth program (for example the Nighthawk).
I also know enough to know that if your assertions were true, that would result in the classification of the papers of Ufimetsev and Sommerfield.


No. To think or believe that anyone who has the timerity to disagree with you, and consider things from a different perspective to you is egotism, is itself egotism.


Bullshit.
Scientest are inherently emperical skeptics. They will accept new things with proof other wise, for example, we wouldn't be researching met materials, and cloaks of invisibility, now would we?


Yes you are, you're excluding the possibility of it being a conventional aircraft, based on your understanding of modern aviation.

I don't remember teh name of it, but I'll bet that, for example, you're completely unaware of the fact that - I forget if it was NASA or the USAF had an advanced experimental prototype that was capable of hovering by doing a tail stand? It could hover, by going into a vertical climb, and then adjusting its engines. Bloody beautiful aircraft, it crashed becuase some body forgot to take the cover off one of the tubes the aircraft used to gather data about its surroundings, and so the onboard computer made bad decisions based on wrong information.


I've never claimed to have infinite knowledge, and you've proved nothing of the sort. The only thing you've done here is testiculate and make wild emotional appeals.

It's funny, you're berating people for being skeptical, and yet, your posts are bordering on Pyrronhism (in fact, you've explicitly made claims that could be classed as such), which is a harder core form of skepticism then I would ever lay claim to.


You berate me for being skeptical of your claims, and yet you yourself make claims that are pyrrhonistic in nature.


But that's not what you're doing, that's what i'm doing, you're accepting a claim without proof.
That's gullibility, and I really do have a bridge to sell you.


So then they're lazy and unoriginal?


This is just bullshit.
Not to mention bordering on word salad.

Just more self important justification for "the world according to trippy" Again, bottom line, just speculation on your part. Until you can tell me specifically what this is, your present scientific understandings offer absolutely no more valid a speculative contribution than the man in the moon. Maybe less. You see, the "man in the moon" doesn't claim he knows when he does not and that's precisely what you are doing. You are assuming that some googled explanation for this technology is it's only explanation. As if that explanation itself may not be sheer intentional disinformation to throw off people just like yourself.

That's the thing about having a skeptical "attitude" rather than a a truly open minded constructive approach to that which presently do not have a confirmed explanation. Those that feel this way do so because they have put VERY VALID HARD WORK into their own achievements with respect to a working education. That education becomes the sum reality on in limitations for that which you cannot begin to imagine. This is nothing more than a justified entitlement mentality.

In the meantime we are considered gullible conspiracists, and you, well by many nothing more than a close minded knowitall.

Does either false and short sighted perception accomplish anything of merit?

Anyone can call "bullshit" till the cows come home, but until you have a confirmable explanation, your claims are no less "bullshit".
 
Triangles? Oh, stealth aircraft. More correctly referred to as 'delta winged'




Both what? I presume you mean both terrestrial an extra terrestrial source, but here you go being vague again.



10,000 years? We don't have that much recorded history. And if you are talking cave paintings, you cannot apply what you think you see now, to then, the symbolism is of the era.



You load that sentence with 'technological'. People report Venus as a UFO still, and we allegedly live in the 'information age'! People used to see witches too, doesn't mean they existed, or that there wasn't a more prosaic explanation.



Total BULLSHIT. 6 Bn humans on the planet, global mapping of the Earth, all frequency radio surveillance, and somehow, this other 'lineage' escape our notice? Neanderthals died out because of competition in the same niche from cro-magnons. Unless this evolutionary branchline of yours are gnomes or dwarfs and live underground, they'd have had competition from us. Do you not understand evolution?

Do you not "see" the futility of what you are doing here? All you are doing is arguing without so much as a shred of explanatory information with respect to this observed reality. How can your views be ANY less a perception? They CANNOT because we are NOT dealing with a certainty.

Tell me how an individual can do anything other than BELIEVE that there is or is not ET life?

The same exact thing applies to a belief in a supreme being.

You positively CANNOT know. I don't care how self important you make your arguments to sound. They are just vain mumblings if you cannot substantiate an absolute explanation.
 
The problem, even with seeing the latest, is that "fashions" change. XF-103 being a good example. In the 60s it was predicted that ever faster was the way to go and Republic Aircraft Corp (among others) was asked to come up with a Mach 3+ interceptor.
The engineering proved very difficult and by the time those problems were almost solved the idea was dropped. Witness the oft-quoted fact that Concorde has more time at Mach 2 than all the fighters in world put together...
You can never tell which of the currently-looked-at stuff is going to be put into service.
Remember the policy in the mid 60s? No more manned fighters. That worked out well. ;)

Oli, you knowing that I respect your technical understandings sincerely, but I also know that extremely competent pilots and technicians have observed these triangles within a reasonably close proximity, do we have completely silent technologies that move extremely slowly, even hover (not vertically)?

Also, is an article from a magazine honesty enough to dismiss the reality for some black r&d program called "Aurora"? I believe that these programs are mostly privatized and off government books. (is this correct?) If that is correct, what's in a name? I mean, couldn't there easily be other programs doing advanced air to space r&d programs?
 
Do you not "see" the futility of what you are doing here? All you are doing is arguing without so much as a shred of explanatory information with respect to this observed reality. How can your views be ANY less a perception? They CANNOT because we are NOT dealing with a certainty.

Do you always have to be so vague? Which part of the entire post of mine are you referring to?

Tell me how an individual can do anything other than BELIEVE that there is or is not ET life?

I firmly believe in the possibility of life on other planets. The Universe is huge, it's not unlikely there are conditions on other planets that are hospitable to live. It's fair to assume a proportion of those planets may have intelligent life.

None of that overcomes the huge distances involved, the energy requirements, or the fact that we simply have no evidence for them travelling across the vastness of space, and visiting us. None.


You positively CANNOT know. I don't care how self important you make your arguments to sound. They are just vain mumblings if you cannot substantiate an absolute explanation.

You cannot KNOW there isn't a pink teapot orbiting Saturn. Doesn't make one appear there though, does it?

How about this; instead of slagging off those that disagree with you, you actually provide some evidence? Why don't you learn some science too, so you actually understand the problems with space travel?
 
Do you not "see" the futility of what you are doing here? All you are doing is arguing without so much as a shred of explanatory information with respect to this observed reality. How can your views be ANY less a perception? They CANNOT because we are NOT dealing with a certainty.

Once again a pointless comment signifying absolutely nothing.

"Observed reality" - ha - pockycock.
 
Once again a pointless comment signifying absolutely nothing.

"Observed reality" - ha - pockycock.

No, your right there was nothing worth speculating about on that video...you know what? Taken straight out of Jackie Gleason's (who was huge into UFOs BTW) mouth, YOU, are a MENTAL CASE!
 
Do you always have to be so vague? Which part of the entire post of mine are you referring to?

Ok, so now "we're" into word play.:rolleyes:



I firmly believe in the possibility of life on other planets. The Universe is huge, it's not unlikely there are conditions on other planets that are hospitable to live. It's fair to assume a proportion of those planets may have intelligent life.

None of that overcomes the huge distances involved, the energy requirements, or the fact that we simply have no evidence for them travelling across the vastness of space, and visiting us. None.

Correction: What you don't have is CONTROL over any of the exceedingly evidenced technologies captured on film, some of which is irrefutable evidence. Let alone the monstrous volumes of expert witness testimony. Your definition of evidence is unique when it comes to the ample support for theoretic speculation of intelligently control craft having coming here from other life systems. You also are unwilling to relinquish the ridiculous assertion that these life forms have to deal with distance as we have to deal with distance. That's how limited your imagination seems to be when it comes to
hypothetical speculations. It seems to be like a woman's memory, very selective in nature.



You cannot KNOW there isn't a pink teapot orbiting Saturn. Doesn't make one appear there though, does it?

LOL! You cannot honestly hope that such a ridiculous exaggeration of rationale, completely without context whatsoever, would or could hold up with respect to analogy?

How about this; instead of slagging off those that disagree with you, you actually provide some evidence? Why don't you learn some science too, so you actually understand the problems with space travel?

I call: "Pot calls kettle black" Where is your explanations for all the irrefutable evidence I have already provided? What about the HUNDREDS of film footage clips that cannot be explained by analysts? What about the various high level skilled and credential backed witnesses that have seen this technology first hand? Why don't you accept the evidence provided if you are unable to scientifically refute the claims? It is NOT enough just to boldly and self importantly dismiss such evidence because you state it's
bullshit". You cannot chalk it all up to the arrogant notion that such and such is just another fallible human being so that human witness can't possibly be relied upon to discern reality. Bring it!
 
YOU, are a MENTAL CASE!

So you're a dope.

Did you like my UFO posting? I tried to imitate your style of idiotic, nonsensical childish blather.

How about the frickin UFO Hunters bs?
Those fakes! The older guy sounds like you - a dope. Those bone heads fell for the NJ hoax. That was even after the NJ state troopers verified that the lights were flares hanging from balloons. "We've tried that experiment with flares hanging from balloons and our experiments clearly dismiss that possibility." Hilarious. Like you - you dope.

Where is your explanations for all the irrefutable evidence I have already provided?
Irrefutable evidence? Poppycock you dope!

Learn what a fact is before you start off on one your tirades that makes you look like a dope.
 
So you're a dope.

Did you like my UFO posting? I tried to imitate your style of idiotic, nonsensical childish blather.


Those fakes! The older guy sounds like you - a dope. Those bone heads fell for the NJ hoax. That was even after the NJ state troopers verified that the lights were flares hanging from balloons. "We've tried that experiment with flares hanging from balloons and our experiments clearly dismiss that possibility." Hilarious. Like you - you dope.


Irrefutable evidence? Poppycock you dope!

Learn what a fact is before you start off on one your tirades that makes you look like a dope.

...so what you are really stating is that you pretty much have NOTHING of substance to add to this thread. ah yeah, I get that pretty much.
 
Oli, you knowing that I respect your technical understandings sincerely, but I also know that extremely competent pilots and technicians have observed these triangles within a reasonably close proximity, do we have completely silent technologies that move extremely slowly, even hover (not vertically)?
Eye witness reports are not credible - I was there when a USN pilot misidentified a Su-27: at a range of less than one mile in broad daylight.

Also, is an article from a magazine honesty enough to dismiss the reality for some black r&d program called "Aurora"? I believe that these programs are mostly privatized and off government books. (is this correct?) If that is correct, what's in a name? I mean, couldn't there easily be other programs doing advanced air to space r&d programs?
Actually it was several articles from highly respected authors, spread over three or four different magazines.
And the question is, why would they STILL be trying to get Mach 7 and higher from highly expensive test programmes if something like the Aurora was in service?
 
So when this quote is used

Taken straight out of Jackie Gleason's (who was huge into UFOs BTW

You added in the UFO comment just to reject your own statement. How nice of you.
 
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