Happy Australia Day

Discussion in 'History' started by paddoboy, Jan 25, 2020.

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  1. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Some people are unreachable. I should probably just leave this thread in its current, sorry state and move on. Against my better judgment, I'll have one more crack at it.


    Let me congratulate you. You've just given a masterclass in avoidance and misdirection and diversion. Fortunately for me, I'm very well acquainted with tactics such as yours. To that end, I will spend this first post illustrating exactly where and how you have tried to avoid answering most of the important direct questions I put to you. Your proclamation, in the course of this little display, that honesty is the best policy, is quite a shameless act of bravado on your part, given the hypocrisy involved. But then again, if you realised why you ought to feel ashamed you wouldn't still be here posting as you are.

    So, let's start...
    This is not an answer to the question I asked.

    In other words, you couldn't find a single thing that was "dumb" in my posts prior to the one you're responding to here. Ergo, your prior assertion that I posted something "dumb" was just bile on your part.

    Instead of elaborating on what an "extreme and utterly crazy" view on ANZAC day would be, you opt to make another personal attack on me. Luckily, I'm smart enough to glean from your later responses what an honest answer from you would have been on this. More on that in a following post.

    My question here was a simple yes/no question, but you couldn't even bring yourself to attempt to answer it.

    Again, honest, straightforward questions from me, and avoidance and attempt to divert using personal insult by you.

    My questions, you will recall, were in direct response to a claim made by you in a previous post. I quoted you.
    Again, a simple yes/no question about your opinons about ABC staff, and you fail to answer it.
    Then, a question asking whether you think the decision was wrong and ought to be reversed, and - guess what? - you fail to answer it.

    To top it off, you then go on to ask yourself a similar question "Should it have been banned?", and - surprise surprise! - you can't even bring yourself to answer your own question!

    Astonishing. Or at least, it would be if honesty really was the best policy for paddoboy.

    This is almost an honest answer to the question "Did you intend to offend?" Hidden in there is the implied answer "yes". Just thought I'd mention this in passing.

    Avoidance. You do not commit to expressing your own view on whether the song is racist or not. The best you can manage is to indicate your awareness that some other people consider it racist.

    My impression from this is that you don't think it is racist, but there's no way to be sure from this non-answer of yours.

    Once again, you are unable to answer a simple question honestly. This time you try to divert attention onto me again, as an excuse to avoid addressing the question I put to you.

    I asked you explicitly about black face on TV. You chose instead to talk about generic racism. There's no way to tell from your response whether you think that black face performances by white people are racist or not, and you haven't answered the question as to whether you think such things should be shown as entertainment on TV.

    It's all well and good to claim that you don't defend racism, but the devil is in the detail. It depends on what you, paddoboy, consider racist, and you give us no hints about that when you avoid addressing the specific example that was put to you.

    As you will see, readers, once we take out paddoboy's avoidance and diversion, there's not a lot of content left to discuss. That will be my next post.
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2020
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  3. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member


    Finally we get an answer to the question of what makes a view about ANZAC day "extreme" and "new age". Only by accident, mind you.

    You characterise "silly far left groups" as extremists. I note you make no mention of any silly far right groups. Is is that you believe the far right shows reverence for the "true meaning" of ANZAC day, then?

    Now, unintentionally, you raise a question of interest. Is the existence of ANZAC day a glorification of war? Are the attitudes of current Australians - or perhaps a particular subset of Australians - to the recognition of ANZAC Day indicative of a glorification of war?

    Could it be that it has become easier for modern Australians to glorify the First World War, in particular, since all Australians who fought in it are now dead? What happens as memory recedes into myth?

    But never mind. These are no doubt questions that only a "ratbag" would ask.

    I invite you to ask me questions if you want to find out what I think about things, and instead of asking some questions you accuse me of being paranoid and secretive. Clearly you have no interest in engaging with me in good faith at this point in our discussion. I guess that somewhere along the line I must have hit a nerve, or at least touched on a place where a nerve might have once existed.

    You refer to the existence of a mysterious message I supposedly sent to you at some unspecified time. I ask that you give me the date of that message so that I can check my records and find out what the hell you're referring to. I explicitly do not give you permission to publish any message that I might have sent to you asking you not to publicise personal information you might have about me. According to our site policies, private communications are to remain private unless you have the express consent of the writer to publish those communications in the public forums. This is an important rule that protects all of our members, and I will have no hesitation about taking appropriate steps to enforce it whenever it becomes necessary due to a breach of trust by a recipient of a private communication.

    As I said, there's little point in rehashing our previous discussion regarding your sexist attitudes. I would, however, like to highlight your extraordinary poor choice of timing in bringing up Bettina Arndt at this particular time. She is a woman who is currently under media scrutiny for potentially misrepresenting her qualifications, and there are a lot of people calling for her to be stripped of her recent Order of Australia award due to various opinions she has expressed and actions she has taken in the past. You are appealing to her authority as support for your views? Really? Couldn't you come up with anybody less controversial?

    I said that, currently, I do not have any close indigenous-Australian friends. You went on to incorrectly assume, because it was convenient for the ad hominem attack you were trying to run at the time, that I have never met any indigenous person. You know precisely nothing about what contacts I have or have had with indigenous Australians, other than what I've just told you. Besides, none of that is remotely relevant to anything I've written in this thread, other than as an honest answer to a direct personal question you asked me.

    Is is fair to say, then, that you believe that opposition to the current date of Australia Day is simply a matter of fools trying to stir up trouble? Do you think that anybody is taking a principled, reasoned position on the inappropriateness of the date?

    On the other issue you raise, tell me why you think people would protest if the date were to be changed? Who would protest? On what grounds would they be protesting? Or do you believe they would just be rabble rousers, too - maybe even the very same people who just like opposing for opposing's sake?

    You've never heard that saying before? Well, there's a first time for everything, I guess.

    I have lots of thoughts about ANZAC Day. Specifically, what do you want my view on? I think I've given you a few of my views on certain aspects of it in passing, but I'm happy to answer specific questions you might have for me.

    Ah, my apparent lack of Aussie pride.

    Again, I think it might be a good idea for you to break down "Aussie pride" for me just a bit. I will be happily to tell you whether I am proud in regard to the various constituents you suggest.

    This in response to my suggestion that a vote in Parliament could change the date of Australia Day.

    Am I wrong? What procedure would be necessary, paddoboy? I'm happy to be informed if you know what would be required. But that ought to have been clear to you already, from what I initially wrote on this matter.

    ... with the majority being in favour of changing the date, at least according to the one poll where I have found statistics for that part of the population sample.

    I am aware, however, of your own personal requirement that 80%+ of indigenous people must want to change the date before you'd be willing to consider it. And even then, as you told me, you'd want to consult the immigrant population for some reason or other, in advance of considering any formal proposal for a change.

    It's already taking far too much of my time to wade through your bullshit without delving into this new can of worms you just opened. It's starting to sound like we need another thread to discuss these latest problematic views of yours.

    Here, you put rape and paedophilic child abuse on a par with making false claims that "ruin a ... life" in some unspecified way. I really don't know where to start with that one. To me the difference between making a false verbal statement about somebody and physically violating their bodily integrity is stark. It's disturbing that you think the two things are equivalent.

    Unreachable, like I said.

    Our entire argument in that other thread was about what is and what is not inconsequential. Specifically, what is inconsequential for you may be a violation for your victim. Harassment is all about perception.

    Keep digging that hole, paddoboy!

    (Do you really think anybody here needs constant updates about your latest displays of sexist attitudes?)
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2020
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  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member


    Are you holding up the fact that it got plenty of airplay in the 20th century as a reason why it shouldn't have been banned in the 21st century? Is this another conservative argument based on a "tradition"? People were traditionally racist, therefore racism is acceptable?

    Like I said, if you'd like to discuss some other ones, we can do that in a separate thread. The relevance here is that you posted this racist song in this thread. You knew it was "politically incorrect", even if you couldn't work out what was the exact nature of the complaint about the song (hint: it's racist). You thought it was fine to post it despite your knowing that because, to you, political incorrectness is all about a bunch of extremist left-wing bleeding hearts kicking up a big fuss over nothing important. Once you stick the label "politically incorrect" on something, for you that's equivalent to dismissing it with a "nothing to worry about here, folks, although a few loonies are sure to complain because they like opposing stuff for opposing's sake".

    I'm sure you do. I'm sure you and your mates have a good old laugh at the local about the time the blonde chick slapped your arse.

    Did you reciprocate in your wild days in the 70s? Did you slap a few random women on the arse as you walked along the beach? Did all her friends laugh and congratulate you when you did it? Did she give you a come-on wink as you withdrew your hand and sauntered away to relate to the story to your mates at the pub? I'm betting that happened a lot, and you never once noticed that any of your blokey behavior was not welcomed as good old piece of fun by the chicks. The sad thing is, you still don't notice that stuff, and here we are in 2020, the era of #metoo.

    Oh, by no means.

    Are you aware that some songs are sexist? Now there's a thought to ponder. Still, it's probably just political correctness gone mad.

    Okay. Taking you at your word, I'll tell it like I see it.


    Fancy that! A complete stranger of a neighbour, with whom you have never interacted, just turned up on your doorstep and treated you like somebody she had some kind of relationship with. Then she dumped her dog on you! The nerve of some people!
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2020
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  7. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Funny, that's the feeling I have of what you are doing James, particularly your avoidance of issues that deflate your ego and desire for a win, which you have rightly and justly failed at.
    Well honesty is something you have so far failed at along with with misrepresentation, in this thread at least.
    Yep, it certainly is, and of course I'm just taking a leaf out of the master's book.
    Nup, the stuff I did mention along with your admitted misrepresentation.

    No, I have got the answer in your cover up above. You think it is a glorification of war? Shame on you and those of that same ilk.
    Of course not, as you so well know, and so often practise, some questions cannot be answered with a yes or no. Try again James?

    You just did it above, and of course as I have noted twice now, you first started with the misrepresentations, slurs and insults as well as dishonesty.
    Ignoring some stuff as just rehash and out to feed your ego...plus I have things to do before I answer your nonsensical cover up and misrepresentations.
    Nup that was answered.
    It certainly is missing from your poor efforts in this thread.
    No again that was answered, just that like the other answers, it actually deflated your objective here in trying to get me on the defensive.

    The only devil James is the lack of detail in your answers and your purposely conducted misrepresentation

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    And once again, an appeal to his online buddies!!!!That's three? or four times now?
    Jesus James, surely you can do better then that?
  8. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Oh, don't flatter yourself. The reason I brought it up was that I smelt a rat long ago and just wanted to drag you out of the closet.
    Again, shame!!!
  9. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Bet you can down a stubby while walking

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  10. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Including indigenous folk...you know the ones? those not as precious as yourself.
    Sure it was James. The others were quite envious. But hey, you avoided telling me what you would have done. Me? I wore it as a badge of honour as most blokes would.
    Probably once or twice when given unmistakable come ons by the opposite sex, why? What would you do?
    And there he goes again, misrepresentations and slurs and then you wonder why people are giving you back a bit of what you give. OK James, its my next door neighbour who we have had drinks with, both her and her hubby and which we have known for 5 years. But I expected nothing more from you other then another slur simply because you have failed totally to impress and get your way in this thread on celebrating Australia Day...sad
    I'll have more time on Sunday to refute and dismantle the rest of your rhetorical nonsense James.[/QUOTE]
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2020
  11. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Actually listening to this nonsense by James, I would be spewing it back up again...a big technicolor yawn as they say

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  12. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    All those words, and for what? To add even more avoidance and distraction?

    There's nothing in this that I need to respond to.
  13. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member


    Is that a "yes" from you to all three of the questions I asked you, then? Or just more avoidance?

    You haven't ever asked.

    Oh, now we're getting more of the story. Not a random arse-slapping after all, but apparently an arse slap that was invited by your giving the woman an "unmistakable come on". In other words, she didn't initiate the sexual behaviour - you did. Maybe this is one reason why you didn't find the behaviour offensive. Another might be that you went out specifically in the hope that you would attract welcome attention from members of the opposite sex.

    Do you for one moment imagine that your heart-warming little tale here is remotely comparable to, say, a woman being randomly wolf-whistled or grabbed at in the street by a strange man?

    Oh! Surprise! She wasn't a stranger after all. It almost sounds like the two of you are on familiar terms with one another, such that it would be perfectly unremarkable for her to call you "sweety".

    Do you think this interaction is remotely comparable to you asking the check-out chick at your supermarket for directions to the extra-virgin olive oil? Did you have a 5 year history of having drinks with her and her boyfriend, too, that you didn't tell us about previously? If so, that might excuse your behaviour in that case, assuming she was fine with it and expected as much from you given your shared history.

    Try actually answering some of my questions when you do that. I'll arrange for somebody to pick me up off the floor in the unlikely event that you actually follow through on that.
  14. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    There's nothing you have responded to honestly James, by your own admittance.
  15. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    It's an answer James that invalidates what you perceive as an argument and which in reality is just misinterpretations, misrepresentations, slurs, half truths and plane old lies.
    And obviously I would have got another cover up and misrepresented answer.
    Desperation tactics again James? Is this troubling you so much?
    Let me clear it up for you. No I didn't know the blonde that slapped me on the arse...The come ons was in reference to other women at other times, who I slapped on the arse, in line with your own dishonest accusation. I just cleared it up for you.
    Did I say anything about those things? Or is this just more of a desperate James, trying to get me on the defensive?
    Actually quite obvious to anyone with half a brain that she wasn't a stranger, but yeah, nothing remarkable in her calling me sweety, just as there was nothing remarkable in me calling a shop assistant love, or a couple of ambos calling the Mrs Darling. Is that clear enough for you James? Should be.

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    Oh, desperation again!! Let's recall...she was not concerned one little bit, and I know nothing about her boyfriend if she indeed has one...Or is this the great James again, belittling himself by continuing with uncalled for slurs. Oh, and I have seen her a few times since but not yet had the need to ask for her assistance. When I do, I'll report back to you, OK James?
    *shrug* Not much to actually refute James old mate...from memory anyway. Although plenty of relevant points you seem to have tried to sweep under the carpet. I may take some time an string them together OK?
    You really seem to have a clostered life James!
  16. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    The Red is mushed carrots you ate 2 or 3 years ago

    Thanks Billy

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  17. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

  18. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Changing Australia Day is pointless – and there is much to celebrate:

    January 26 is fast approaching. This is a day most Aussies look forward to: a day off work with friends and family, food, fun, and laughter. However, if previous years are anything to go by, that day, whether you call it “Australia Day”, “Survival Day”, “Invasion Day”, or whatever, is likely to be the source of some debate.

    Those opposed to Australia Day, mainly for the date on which is celebrated, do so because of the historical significance – the British invasion and the destruction it brought.

    Consequently, some Aboriginal people and a number of other Australians see Australia Day as a day of mourning – as first marked in 1938 – while others simply believe it is offensive to Aboriginal Australians.. Darumbal woman Amy McQuire, for example, describes the “real pain felt on this date”.

    As such, the City of Fremantle, while not opposing Australia Day celebrations, is having a “culturally inclusive alternative” event two days later.

    I certainly don’t see what happened at the time of the invasion as worthy of celebrating – nobody does. But I celebrate on January 26 with thousands of others for a quite different reason – because Australia is a great country to live in.

    I agree with Aboriginal elder Robert Isaacs:

    It [Australia Day] brings the community together, it brings the Australian people together and it celebrates the good this country has provided for everyone.

    In response to my words “Australia is a great country to live in”, some will immediately retort: “Well, it’s not so great for many Aboriginal people.” I agree, and this should never be forgotten. But how will protesting about the date and Australia Day help those Aboriginal people most in need?

    Celebrating on a particular day does not have to be tied to historical events, even if its origins are rooted in those events. Consider the celebration of Christmas Day. Though traditionally it had religious significance (and still does for some), for many people there is no religious meaning.

    Today many Australians celebrate Christmas for other reasons: family; end of another hard year; food and drink; and summer holidays. Like Christmas Day, Australia Day is a holiday where most can relax and socialise, and reflect on matters that are of importance to them.

    I respect people’s right to mourn and even to claim that Australia Day celebrations are causing them grief, insult, and suffering. However, I question the motives and sincerity of those claiming to be upset because of injustices committed in the past by what boils down to what one set of my ancestors did to another set of my ancestors.

    Why do I not see them upset by the injustices committed by Aboriginal people against other Aboriginal people today? The high rates of violence in the Aboriginal population, particularly against women, are well documented – and widely known – yet there is comparatively little outrage. Why?

    Protesting about the day, I believe, is a smokescreen to obscure the real problems that many Aboriginal Australians face today. In addition to the problem of violence there is poor health, community dysfunction, unemployment, child neglect, and poor school attendance.

    These problems will not be solved by changing the date of Australia Day or giving it a new name. For those objecting to Australia Day celebrations, I encourage you to consider the aforementioned problems and ask yourself: “How will changing the name or the date help those who are suffering most?”

    A time to reflect
    While I see Australia Day as a day of celebration, it is also perfectly legitimate for people to take time to reflect on past injustices associated with the invasion. Australia Day can be a day of remembrance and reflection, as well as celebrations. Aboriginal academic Chelsea Bond writes:

    I march in remembrance for those who lost their lives simply defending their own land and people.

    She does this without bitterness.

    While some claim it to be a day of mourning, for me and for many others Australia Day is an opportunity to celebrate living in this fantastic country. It does not have to be one or the other – we can reflect on the past, with particular attention given to the injustices endured by Aboriginal people since the invasion, and celebrate what a great country Australia is today.

    Australia has changed almost beyond recognition in regard to Aboriginal people in recent years. We should acknowledge this and celebrate what a great country Australia is – and work together to make it even better.

    January 26 is Australia Day – our Australia Day. Let’s celebrate together, allowing others the freedom to express what it means to them. We can celebrate the achievements of our Aboriginal brothers and sisters, and the successes achieved together
  19. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    I have admitted precisely one instance in which I misinterpreted something you wrote because you didn't make yourself clear. But here you are, claiming that I have responded to nothing honestly, and moreover that I have admitted as much to you.

    Quote me where I wrote that, or retract and apologise for this lie of yours.
  20. paddoboy Valued Senior Member


    Australia Day debate: ‘Don’t change the date’, says Wotjobaluk Elder Aunty Nancy Harrison | Poll

    A WIMMERA Indigenous Elder has spoken out against the Change the Date movement, saying Australia Day should remain on January 26 despite growing controversy regarding the day’s significance.

    Aunty Nancy Harrison, of Dimboola, is of Wotjobaluk descent and said the date should stay the same.

    “I strongly don’t believe in (the Change the Date movement); it should be left as it is. I hope it never happens,” she said.

    “Even if they change it, you can never forget January 26. It’s a bittersweet day, but I try not to think of where it originated.

    “A lot of my relatives around here, and in Melbourne, don’t want to change the date. A lot of people in the Koori community believe it should just stay, because how can you forget it.”

    She said she believed most of the Wimmera community was behind keeping the date the same.

    “I can’t see it ever changing, not up here. Councils in Melbourne have changed their Australia Day events in the past and I think that’s disgusting,” she said.

    “It’s very disappointing that a lot of the Koori community have got very radical with their ideas about it. They get these ideas and won’t listen to anyone else.

    “It’s the older generations that always accepted it and they never had bad thoughts about it. Now every year there’s always a discussion around the controversy of Invasion Day – I don’t know where that came from – I think that’s ridiculous calling it Invasion Day.”

    Barengi Gadjin Land Council chairperson Dylan Clarke said Barengi Gadjin didn’t have a position regarding the date.

    “BGLC does not and will not have a formal position regarding January 26 until the appropriate process of consultation with the Full Group has taken place,” he said.

    “It would be inappropriate for BGLC to provide a formal position without the informed consent and direction taken from our Full Group in a respectful transparent consultation and engagement process.

    “BGLC remains optimistic and believe more education and interaction is needed to help bridge misunderstandings between the wider community, local Traditional Owners and Aboriginal people living on Country.

    “By listening to both sides of an untold history we can be empathetic towards each other under the basis of understanding, even if we don’t agree.

    “Both of our histories, black and white, should be shared, acknowledged and celebrated just like any other culture in the world but it’s imperative there is an openness to learning and all parties are willing to listening.”

    Related: Wimmera councils vote against Australia Day change

    Last week Prime Minister Scott Morrison and Immigration Minister David Coleman announced plans to change the Australian Citizenship Ceremonies Code to require councils to host such ceremonies on Australia Day, January 26 and Australian Citizenship Day, September 17.

    Aunty Nancy said she supported the decision. She will speak at Dimboola’s Australia Day ceremony on Saturday.

    A poll on the Wimmera Mail-Times’ website last year asked readers whether they thought Australia Day should be changed from January 26.

    A total of 89 people voted in the poll, with 70.79 per cent voting “No” to changing the date and 24.72 per cent voting “Yes”. Only 4.49 per cent voted “Undecided”.

  21. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    You misunderstand again James...Have you been drinking? Your admittance I spoke of was exactly what you referred to in the first sentence, OK..Now take a deep breath and have a lie down. I have nothing to apologise for.
  22. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    I said....
    Can I have an apology James?
  23. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member


    Add this to the list of the many questions I have asked you that you were unable or unwilling to answer honestly. Ho hum. Moving on...


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    It does trouble me that you seem to be a proud and unrepentent serial sexual harasser of women, based on your own accounts of your behaviour. Yes, it does indeed trouble me. It troubles me that you're unreachable on this topic, here in the era of #metoo, in 2020. Maybe you ought to show this thread to your wife, and even more importantly the one here:


    See what she thinks about it all. Obviously, nothing I say is getting through to you.

    Okay. Let us clarify the circumstances of that arse slap.

    Did you mind that a good-looking woman slapped your arse? No, you loved it, according to your own report.
    Was the slap uninvited? It's not clear to me at this point.
    Was it unwelcome from your point of view? Clearly, the answer is no. It was highly welcome.

    Given these basic facts, it would not appear that you were not a victim of sexual harassment in this instance.

    Is the random slapping of the bottoms of strangers appropriate social behaviour? In most circumstances, I'd say the answer would be a clear "no", though they are always exceptional circumstances.

    Does your experience of having a woman slap your arse give you a general licence to go around slapping the arses of strangers? I'd say, clearly it does not. Do you agree or disagree?

    Is it conceivable that a person - male or female - might react very differently than you did to an uninvited arse slap from a stranger? That's a question for you to consider. Assuming you can reach the correct conclusion on that one, you can attempt the next question:

    Would it be sexual harassment to slap the arse of a stranger if that stranger did not invite the slap, was not in an environment where the slap would be expected in the ordinary course of events, and found the slap to be a violation of her bodily autonomy and completely inappropriate and unwelcome?

    See if you can manage a straight yes/no answer to that last question. (I'm betting you can't.)

    So you were talking about arse slaps that involved mutual consent there?

    Do you think I have any problem with sexualised activity that happens by mutual consent between the parties involved?

    Can you tell the difference between activity that occurs with consent, express or clearly implied by circumstances, and non-consensual sexualised activity?

    Be aware that, legally, slapping another person's arse is an assault if there no consent. In fact, merely putting a person in fear of being slapped in that way is an assault.

    We are discussing what is socially appropriate behaviour and what isn't, and when the behavioral line is crossed so that behavior becomes creepy harassment. You seem to have a lot of difficulty recognising where that line is, and what circumstances might lead you to find yourself on one side or the other of it. This is evident in your conflation of affectionate interactions between people who know each other well with leering behaviour and inappropriate touching directed at complete strangers.

    You have absolutely no way of knowing that, unless she discussed the matter with you explicitly. See the linked thread for more.

    Your assumption that all women enjoy your sexual innuendos and your dirty old man behaviours is just that - your assumption.

    Don't harass the poor girl any more. Please.

    Luckily, you don't have to rely on your failing memory. This thread provides a convenient record of all the questions I have asked you, including a nicely-formatted post containing most of the questions you were unable or unwilling to answer from my previous posts. You know, the ones you avoided and tried to distract from. The ones you tried to cover up by throwing personal insults at me. That kind of thing. Go back and read the posts again. Refresh your memory.

    Oh, I'm very confident that I've given this a thorough airing. If you find anything new, by all means feel free to run it by me.

    Always good to end with yet another pointless personal attack, based on just one more faulty assumption, isn't it? Ho hum.
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2020
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