Gravity Works Like This

[paddoboy]

He should be crying a river by now after listening to you make all those 'paddo noise' filled 'porky pies', mate. Listen to the discussion with them more closely and you'll see where they are caught between Einstein's 2nd Postulate "rider' and a hard place. They have nothing left except more obvious troll tactics of evasion and distraction at all costs to the facts in discussion. How you doin'? Get a clue yet?

Still refusing to address the science...still on with your bleating/whinging/complaining, still trolling, still here...

Anyway, here's some more science for you to ignore.......

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Q: Are all the postulates in General Relativity accepted or does there exist room for alternatives to General Relativity with different outcomes?

A: Accepted is not really the right word. Many different tests that we are capable of performing IMPLY VERY STRONGLY that General Relativity in its most simple form, is the way that nature seems to work. This means that the underlying principles are also sound. Specific ones like the bending of light by gravitational fields and the equality between gravitational and inertial mass can be individually tested and have been found to be correct to within experimental error....one part in 10 trillion for the later test in fact. So far, there are simply no places to sneak a completely different theory that does better than General Relativity, and this is somewhat of a problem because without signs that General Relativity is in bad shape in some way, there is no maneuvering ground for introducing a 'better' theory. There would be nothing for the new theory to explain better at the current time. This also means that General Relativity as it stands is our best shot. But perhaps in the next century some new test will be discovered so that the field can progress further. Still..between curved space, black holes and the Big Bang, what more could you possible want to 'explain' by a better theory?

Q: Exactly why is the speed of light a constant in all reference frames?

A: Because it simply is, and this is an experimental fact of life that we have to deal with. It doesn't matter if you are on two cars moving in opposite directions flashing lights at one another, the total speed of the electromagnetic disturbance is the same, and is not augmented or reduced by your motion. The only thing that affects the speed of light is the refractive index of the medium through which it moves, and for empty space, this number is 1.000000 and gives you the maximum possible speed of light. In glass, it is 1.3333 times smaller since c/n = c/1.333 = 300,000 km/sec/1.333 = 225,000 km/sec.

The invariance of the speed of light in all uniformly moving reference frames is a postulate of special relativity, it does not derive from special relativity, which only then states how observers will experience/measure space and time given the invariance of the speed of light.

http://einstein.stanford.edu/content/relativity/q1917.html
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Now tell us again about my porky pies, and other fairy tale ignorant vengeful names you may like to call me.
If I have lied about any of my scientific comments, I'm sure you would show it to be a lie, if you could......

Again undefined, your efforts to convince the sensible folk on this forum, re your silly alternative model, can be analogous to pushing shit up a very steep hill.

 

[Undefined]

Still refusing to address the science...still on with your bleating/whinging/complaining, still trolling, still here...

Anyway, here's some more science for you to ignore.......

{{{Deleted more of paddo's incessant stream of mindlessly linked 'material' he doesn't read and understand properly. Ever.}}}


Now tell us again about my porky pies, and other fairy tale ignorant vengeful names you may like to call me.
If I have lied about any of my scientific comments, I'm sure you would show it to be a lie, if you could......

Again undefined, your efforts to convince the sensible folk on this forum, re your silly alternative model, can be analogous to pushing shit up a very steep hill.

You mindlessly still missed that in your own linked blurb it speaks of SR postulate BUT does not allude to the GR 'rider' about validity of SR 'constancy of light speed' view NOT extending to GR contexts. Which is what is relevant to THIS discussion. Get a clue.

 

[paddoboy]

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Q:What does the word 'spacetime' mean?


A: It means that in our universe, 3-dimensional space and time form a single indivisible new physical object which has 4 dimensions. All physical laws and phenomena seem to require thinking about space and time as this blended object. That's what Einstein's relativity theories were all about.

http://einstein.stanford.edu/content/relativity/a10385.html
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Excuse the links undefined, it's just my friend Sten, puts it far better then I can, and afterall, he is an Astronomer.

 

[paddoboy]

You mindlessly still missed that in your own linked blurb it speaks of SR postulate BUT does not allude to the GR 'rider' about validity of SR 'constancy of light speed' view NOT extending to GR contexts. Which is what is relevant to THIS discussion. Get a clue.

The speed of light is constant...photons never go faster or slower the "c" in any one FoR and in either SR or GR...Got that?

 

[Undefined]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Q:What does the word 'spacetime' mean?


A: It means that in our universe, 3-dimensional space and time form a single indivisible new physical object which has 4 dimensions. All physical laws and phenomena seem to require thinking about space and time as this blended object. That's what Einstein's relativity theories were all about.

http://einstein.stanford.edu/content/relativity/a10385.html
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Excuse the links undefined, it's just my friend Sten, puts it far better then I can, and afterall, he is an Astronomer.

What don't you understand about the fact that 'time' is an abstraction concept/tool from real energy-space processing phenomena, not 'time' phenomena. That 'theoretically combined 'physical object' is a 'composite' analytical model ONLY, with the 'space' part being REAL, and the 'time' part being ABSTRACT mathematically DERIVED thing, not reality itself. The real object is the energy-space, and the real process is the energy-space dynamics in/of that real energy-space 'object'. Why waste your time on more 'comic book explanations' of unreal things when you could be learning about the real things, energy-space and the processes in/of it which produce gravity and the GR effects on said processes? Your linked material is just more facile mainstream 'explanations' for those (like you) who don't know any better and can't think for themselves anyway. The phrase 'dumbed down' comes to mind when all these facile 'explanations' from the professionals get mistaken for the real things.

 

[Undefined]

The speed of light is constant...photons never go faster or slower the "c" in any one FoR and in either SR or GR...Got that?

You still ignore the GR 'rider' by Einstein to his own SR 2nd postulate. Typical mindless troll. Good luck with that, paddo.

 

[paddoboy]

I wish I wasn't such a big softy!

undefined/Farsight....I know I'm only an amateur, but I'll still like to help out......
I'll put the following in steps and in words of three [maybe four] syllables or less....

[1] The speed of light is constant in both SR and GR within any local FoR.

[2] The speed of light must by necessity remain constant, because it is massless.

[3] If it wasn't massless, it would not reach "c"

[4] Photons never go at any other speed then "ç"

[5] Light in a gravity well may appear to go slower from an outside FoR, but one must also account for the space/time curvature and increase distances that it has traveled.

[6]Space/time/Universe/gravity/mass/energy are all basically dependent on one another, and each are as real as one another.
[see Sten Odenwalds reference somewhere]

If you could let all that sink in undefined, you may realize why SR/GR are so successful and predictable.

 

[paddoboy]

. Your linked material is just more facile mainstream 'explanations' for those (like you) who don't know any better and can't think for themselves anyway. The phrase 'dumbed down' comes to mind when all these facile 'explanations' from the professionals get mistaken for the real things.

The usual plaintiff cry of many a conspiracy nutter, alternative theorist, and pseudoscience ratbag.
Blame the system, blame the establishment, blame the scientific methodology and peer review, blame everyone out there!!!

 

[paddoboy]

The usual plaintiff cry of many a conspiracy nutter, alternative theorist, and pseudoscience ratbag.
Blame the system, blame the establishment, blame the scientific methodology and peer review, blame everyone out there!!!

But if you were fair dinkum, you could address each point, one by one?

I know I'll get the crap answers, but at least I will not be able to fault you for not having a go.

In reality, being a big fat softy at heart, I'm really trying desperately to help out. :shrug:

 

[Undefined]

The usual plaintiff cry of many a conspiracy nutter, alternative theorist, and pseudoscience ratbag.
Blame the system, blame the establishment, blame the scientific methodology and peer review, blame everyone out there!!!

But if you were fair dinkum, you could address each point, one by one?

I know I'll get the crap answers, but at least I will not be able to fault you for not having a go.

In reality, being a big fat softy at heart, I'm really trying desperately to help out. :shrug:

That's it. Proven. You're nothing but a mindless troll, paddo. You were given the GR 'rider' information to the SR 2nd postulate which makes all your et al arguments null and void in this GR context, and you come back with more mindless troll crap instead of admitting your error. You lose, troll. Obviously.


Farsight: The trolling behavior of paddo and others and their failure to acknowledge facts brought to their attention effectively means your OP point could not be refuted in any cogent fair way based on the evidence presented in discussion. Congratulations! Will read with interest your other discussions. Bye!

 

[paddoboy]

That's it. Proven. You're nothing but a mindless troll, paddo. You were given the GR 'rider' information to the SR 2nd postulate which makes all your et al arguments null and void in this GR context, and you come back with more mindless troll crap instead of admitting your error. You lose, troll. Obviously.


Farsight: The trolling behavior of paddo and others and their failure to acknowledge facts brought to their attention effectively means your OP point could not be refuted in any cogent fair way based on the evidence presented in discussion. Congratulations! Will read with interest your other discussions. Bye!

Afraid to address all the points I made undefined? [in post 427]

Nice big red letters by the way...Impressive

 

[Undefined]

Afraid to address all the points I made undefined? [in post 427]

Nice big red letters by the way...Impressive

Too late with more lame BS, lame troll. You had your chance and made a mess of it with your mindless trolling. You lost to Farsight. Live with it.

 

[Grumpy]

RC

Too late with more lame BS, lame troll. You had your chance and made a mess of it with your mindless trolling. You lost to Farsight. Live with it.

The only losers here are you and Farsight.

Grumpy

 

[Undefined]

HI Grumpy.

RC



The only losers here are you and Farsight.

Grumpy

Whatever does it for you, mate.

But ignoring Einstein's GR 'rider' to postulate 2; ignoring the obvious reality of predicted GR effects on clocks/processes of ANY kind, and ignoring the explanation of the subtle difference between the 'constant c' and the 'invariant c' origins/meaning/effect; and the failure to recognize that 'time' is a derived abstract analytical convenience based on simultaneous REAL EVENTS from which we derive that abstract connection convenience; and the long line of trolled irrelevancies because of that, makes your claim sound a bit hollow.

Be sporting in defeat, mate. Farsight has earned that at least for his perseverance and sticking to what Einstein and his GR theory actually imply/involve in reality as in this particular GR two-clock scenario. No hard feelings against him or anyone else, I trust? Better luck in your other discussions, Grumpy. G'night.

 

[paddoboy]

No hard feelings against him or anyone else, I trust? Better luck in your other discussions, Grumpy. G'night.

Wow!!!!
Delusions to the max!
Hey, you still ain't impressing anyone, especially me.
Still afraid to address my 6 or 7 points?

 

[Undefined]

Wow!!!!
Delusions to the max!
Hey, you still ain't impressing anyone, especially me.
Still afraid to address my 6 or 7 points?

Still being a poor pathetic sycophantic needy troll much, paddo? Give it a rest, mate. You and the other trolls lost to Farsight's OP fair and square. Don't make it more embarrassing for yourself and them than it already is with your lame trolls now. OK, mate?

 

[paddoboy]

Still unable to answer my 6 points?

 

[Undefined]

Still unable to answer my 6 points?

Face it, paddo, you and your fellow trolls have lost this one to Farsight. It's done and dusted and all over the net by now, or very soon will be. Obviously.

You're a 'me too' troll and mindlessly posting anything and everything without any rhyme nor reason to it.

And trolls like you don't have a point.

They make themselves obviously irrelevant and embarrassingly so for some posts now. Lose the sycophantic needy driven pretense and lamebrained trollish mentality and re-think your role/agenda here and elsewhere, mate! Good luck.

 

[paddoboy]

Face it, paddo, you and your fellow trolls have lost this one to Farsight. It's done and dusted and all over the net by now, or very soon will be. Obviously.

No, we havn't, and until you or Farsight can refute those 6 points if mine, gravity and cosmology in general, including SR/GR will remain as accepted by mainstream.

Again Newtonian gravity describes mass/energy attracted to each other depending on that mass/energy.
It correctly in most cases, describes the falling of an apple from a tree, to the orbit of the planets with pretty good accuracy.
The reason and origin of the attraction is unknown.

GR describes gravity as the warping/curving of space/time in the presence of mass/energy. The subsequent interactions are then explained by that warping/curving.
The reality of this space/time is reinforced by the fact that it can be measured, energy extracted, has another unknown form of energy we have labeled DE or the CC.
John Archibald Wheeler coined the little ditty.
Space/time tells matter/energy how to move: Matter/energy tells space/time how to curve:

Cosmologically speaking the reality of space/time/Universe/gravity/matter/energy all exist and all depend on each other for that existence.

In other words, space/time cannot exist without the matter/energy within it.

 

[Farsight]

Moderator: can we do something about the trolls please?