Gravity is still electromagnetism

At the same time voltage would better explain why we are attracted to the earth and not a very powerful magnet... I'd theorize that an object that has been neutralized by another object (human beings within the earth's atmosphere for instance) tends to stay with that object unless there is an overwhelming force from outside acting on it to overcome this tendency.

It could be that it is both magnetic and electrostatic forces that create the illusion of gravity... that actually makes more sense and holds up better to reality!!
 
Make your idea concrete.
Put your idea to the test.
Discard your idea if the test disfavors it.
 
impaJah said:
The main reason I can't see it as being voltage is because the universe is in movement... which would create a magnetic field. But then again since it is in space it technically might not be moving in the same sense as we see here on earth...

I don't know, I'd have to think more about it.
Click to expand...

Well invisible physics can create all sorts of illusions. I'm sure, if you think long enough you will solve your problem with voltage.

impaJah said:
At the same time voltage would better explain why we are attracted to the earth and not a very powerful magnet... I'd theorize that an object that has been neutralized by another object (human beings within the earth's atmosphere for instance) tends to stay with that object unless there is an overwhelming force from outside acting on it to overcome this tendency.

It could be that it is both magnetic and electrostatic forces that create the illusion of gravity... that actually makes more sense and holds up better to reality!!
Click to expand...

Something like that. If you want to use attraction that's up to you. I don't use it. It is an old word now, and we are used to it, but it is possible to just use push forces.
 
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Pincho Paxton said:
Something like that. If you want to use attraction that's up to you. I don't use it. It is an old word now, and we are used to it, but it is possible to just use push forces.
Click to expand...

Interesting that you think it all comes down to "push forces"... I always thought of electromagnetic attraction as a suction or pull.
 
rpenner said:
Make your idea concrete.
Put your idea to the test.
Discard your idea if the test disfavors it.
Click to expand...

You're absolutely right rpenner. One day, if someone doesn't do it beforehand, I will have enough knowledge to be able to devise an elegant test that will prove, disprove or change the direction of this theory.

Thinking about it, to be honest I can't think of any legitimate reason anyone would have to post an untested theory for others to see unless they ask for it. Other than to invite others to check the logic of it, there is really no time spent on such a thread that wouldn't be better spent doing more research and devising that test.

This is all just a distraction from work. At best I could hope for a sound, logical refutation - you, rpenner, coming the closest, although not refuting, by pointing out more or less what would need to be reconciled. At worst, and more commonly, it will degenerate into name calling and appeals to authority.

So yes, I understand my hypocrisy in being here. Sometimes it's fun just to chat and wonder about stuff.
 
impaJah said:
Interesting that you think it all comes down to "push forces"... I always thought of electromagnetic attraction as a suction or pull.
Click to expand...

Yes, since Newton it has been thought of as an attraction. It definitely looks like attraction. If you see iron heading towards a magnet you think attraction. I just imagine what is behind the iron filings, and what is in front of the iron filings? Not the magnet, but the surrounding material.
 
impaJah said:
At the same time voltage would better explain why we are attracted to the earth and not a very powerful magnet... I'd theorize that an object that has been neutralized by another object (human beings within the earth's atmosphere for instance) tends to stay with that object unless there is an overwhelming force from outside acting on it to overcome this tendency.
Click to expand...

So your idea is that people have been neutralized by the atmosphere (whatever that means?), but since we are moving with the earth we just stay with the earth. OK, if that were true then it would not take an overwhelming force to move us away from the earth - all we would have to do is jump and we would leave the earth and travel through space. This is based on your idea that objects are not held by gravity but held by an electric field so therefore a neutral object would not feel a force holding you to the earth.

Since high jumpers do not have to have ropes tied to them to keep them from flying off of the earth, that theory must be wrong. Care to try another? Just as an aside gravity is a pretty good theory that has allowed us to land rovers on the Mars - that is evidence in favor of gravity by the way.
 
Here's a theory by someone more advanced than myself considering gravity to be magnetism:

Gravity is Magnetism Newton was Wrong
First realized and stated in October 1983

BIG BANG THEORY

SCIENTIST BELIEVE THAT THE UNIVERSE BEGAN ABOUT 15 BILLION YEARS AGO. A HUGE EXPLOSION CALLED THE BIG

BANG SENT MATTER OUT INTO SPACE IN ALL DIRECTIONS.

ATOM

THE SMALLEST PARTICLE OF AN ELEMENT THAT CAN EXIST EITHER ALONE OR IN COMBINATION WITH SIMILAR PARTICLES

OF THE SAME OR OF A DIFFERENT ELEMENT.

ATOMIC THEORY

A THEORY OF THE NATURE OF MATTER [ALL MATTER ARE COMPOSED OF MINUTE PARTICLES OR ATOMS OF A

COMPARATIVELY SMALL NUMBER OF KINDS, ALL THE ATOMS OF THE SAME KIND BEING UNIFORMED IN SIZE, WEIGHT AND

OTHER PROPERTIES. BASED ON THE EXPERIMENTAL AND THEORETICAL CONSIDERATIONS, HOLDING THAT EVERY ATOM IS

COMPOSED ESSENTIALLY OF A SMALL POSITIVELY CHARGED COMPARATIVELY HEAVY NUCLEUS SURROUNDED BY A

COMPARATIVELY LARGE ARRANGEMENTS OF ELECTRONS.

Schrodinger atom, Thomas hypothesis, Rutherford atom, Bohr atom, Lewis-Langmuir theory.

ION

AN ATOM OR GROUP OF ATOMS WHEN COMBINED IN A RADICAL OR MOLECULE THAT CARRIES A POSITIVE CHARGE AS A

RESULT OF HAVING LOST OR GAINED ONE OR MORE ELECTRONS AND THAT MAY EXIST IN SOLUTION THAT MAY BE FORMED

DURING ELECTROLYSIS AND MIGRATE TO THE ELECTRODE OF OPPOSITE CHARGE, OR THAT MAY BE FORMED IN A GAS AND

BE CAPABLE OF CARRYING AN ELECTRIC CURRENT THROUGH GAS.

FUSION

A UNION OF ATOMIC NUCLEI TO FORM HEAVIER NUCLEI RESULTING IN THE RELEASE OF ENORMOUS QUANTITIES OF

ENERGY WHEN CERTAIN ELEMENT UNITE.

SPIN

THE RAPID ROTATION OF A ELEMENTARY PARTICLE[AS AN ELECTRON] ON IT'S OWN AXIS OR OF A SYSTEM OF SUCH

PARTICLES IN ORBITAL MOTION THAT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MEASURABLE ANGULAR MOMENTUM AND MAGNETIC MOMENT. [AS

IN MOLECULAR SPIN]

MAGNETIC MOMENT

THE VECTOR WHOSE VECTOR PRODUCED BY THE INTENSITY OF THE AMBIENT MAGNETIC FIELD GIVES THE RESULTING

TORQUE.

VECTOR: A QUANTITY HAVING BOTH MAGNETIC MAGNITUDE AND DIRECTION.

AMBIENT: ENCOMPASSING SPHERE

TORQUE: TO PRODUCE ROTATION

ROTATIONAL SPECIFIC HEAT

THE CONTRIBUTION MADE TO THE SPECIFIC HEAT OF A SUBSTANCE BY ENERGY OF MOLECULAR ROTATION WITH

TEMPERATURE CHANGE

MAGNETIC CURRENT

A CURRENT THAT MAGNETIZES A CORE

MAGNETIC INDUCTION

THE PRODUCTION OF MAGNETISM IN A BODY WHEN IT IS IN A MAGNETIC FIELD

EXCITING CURRENT

A CURRENT THAT EXCITES OR ENERGIZES AN ELECTRICAL APPARATUS [AS THE FIELD OF MAGNETS OF A DYNAMO]

DYNAMO

RELATING TO THE CONVERSION BY INDUCTION OF ELECTRICAL ENERGY INTO MECHANICAL ENERGY

ELECTRON

HAS A MAGNETIC MOMENT OF ABOUT 1 BOHR MAGNETON ASSOCIATED WITH IT'S 1 ½ QUANTUM UNIT OF SPIN.

BOHR MAGNETON

A MAGNETON BASED ON QUANTUM THEORY EQUAL TO 9.273x10'21cm DYNE PER GAWS

MAGNETON

A UNIT OF THE QUANTIZED MAGNETIC MOMENT OF A PARTICLE. [ATOM]

LODESTONE

A BODY HAVING THE PROPERTY OF ATTRACTING IRON

ROCKS

THERE ARE THREE KINDS OF ROCKS. ALL OF WHICH ARE COMPOSED OF NATURAL MINERALS AND OXYGEN.

1.IGNEUS: MELTED MINERALS COOLED AND HARDENED

2.SEDEMENTARY: MINERALS AND SMALLER ROCKS THAT BECAME CEMENTED TOGETHER

3.METAMORPHIC: ROCKS THAT HAVE CHANGED DUE TO HEAT AND PRESSURE

HYDROGEN

A NONMETALLIC UNIVALENT ELEMENT THAT IS THE SIMPILIST AND LIGHTEST OF THE ELEMENTS, THAT IS NORMALLY A

COLORLESS ODORLESS HIGHLY FLAMMABLE DIATOMIC GAS THAT IS QUITE ABOUNDANT IN SPACE FROM THE SUN, MANY

STARS AND NEBULAE. IT CAN BE READILY PREPARED BY ELECTROLYSIS INTO WATER.

OXYGEN

A NONMETALLIC CHIEFLY BEVALANT ELEMENT THAT IS THE MOST ABOUNDANT OF ELEMENTS ON EARTH OCCURING

UNCOMBINED IN AIR TO THE EXTENT OF ABOUT 21%

BY VOLUME AND COMBINED IN WATER, MOST ROCKS, AND MINERALS.

ELECTROLYSIS

THE PROCESS OF PRODUCING CHEMICAL CHANGES BY PASSAGE OF AN ELECTRIC CURRENT THROUGH AN ELECTROLYTE [AS

IN A CELL] . THE IONS PRESENT CARRYING THE CURRENT BY MIGRATING TO THE ELECTRODES WHERE THEY MAY FORM

NEW SUBSTANCES.

ELECTRIC CURRENT

MOVEMENT OF POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE ELECTRIC PARTICLES [ELECTRONS] ACCOMPANIED BY SUCH OBSERVABLE EFFECTS

AS THE PRODUCTION OF HEAT, OF A MAGNETIC FIELD, OR OF CHEMICAL TRANSFORMATION.

LIQUID OXYGEN

A PALE BLUE TRANSPARENT MOBILE MAGNETIC LIQUID OBTAINED BY THE COMPRESSION OF GASEOUS OXYGEN.

COMPRESS

TO REDUCE THE VOLUME, SIZE, DURATION, DENSITY, OR DEGREE OF CONCENTRATION OF BY OR AS IF BY PRESSURE; TO

PRESS TOGETHER CAUSING PRESSURE.

MAGNETIC FIELD

A REGION SUBJECT TO THE INFLUENCE OF MAGNETISM THAT IS MANIFESTED BY THE MECHANICAL FORCES THAT EXERTS

UPON ELECTRICITY MOVING UPON IT AND UPON THE POLES OF MAGNETS PLACED IN IT.

MAGNETIC MERIDIAN

A LINE IN THE EARTHS SURFACE APPROXIMATING A GREAT CIRCLE PASSING THROUGH THE NORTH AND SOUTH POLE.

[MAGNETIC POLES]

MAGNETIC RESONANCE

THE OPERATING PRINCIPLE OF THE CYCLOTRON AND SIMILAR ACCELERATIONS AT EVERY HALF REVOLUTION BY AN

ELECTRIC FIELD IN RESONANCE WITH THE REVOLVING FREQUENCIES WITH IONS OR PARTICLES.

CYCLOTRON

CIRCULAR MOVEMENTS OF PARTICLES AS PROPELLED BY MEANS OF AN ALTERNATING ELECTRIC FIELD BETWEEN

ELECTRODES AND A CONSTANT MAGNETIC FIELD.

MAGNETOSPHERE

A REGION OF UPPER ATMOSPHERE THAT EXPANDS FOR THOUSANDS OF MILES AND IS DOMINATED BY THE EARTHS MAGNETIC

FIELD SO THAT CHARGED PARTICLES [ IONS] ARE CAUGHT IN IT.
ION SPHERE

UPPERMOST PART OF THE ATMOSPHERE KNOWN TO HAVE CHARGED PARTICLES.

OZONE

UPPER PART OF STRATOSPHERE MADE MOSTLY OF OXYGEN AND THIS PART OF THE ATMOSPHERE PROTECTS EARTH FROM

HARMFUL UV RAYS

THEORETICAL COMBINATION CONCLUSION

THE BIG BANG OCCURS , MATTERS OF DIFFERENT SUBSTANCES ARE EJECTED THROUGHOUT SPACE. AN IRON BALL OF

GREAT MASS THAT IS EXTREMELY HOT, BEGINS TO CAUSE ATOMIC FUSION. TREMENDOUS QUANTITIES OF ENERGY BEGIN

TO RELEASE. WITH ENERGY COMES ROTATIONAL SPECIFIC HEAT. THIS IS ALSO ACCOMPANIED BY MOLECULAR SPIN. THE

ATOMS NOW BECOME IONS CAUSED BY ELECTRICAL CURRENT FROM THE PRODUCTION OF HEAT CAUSED BY THE MOLECULAR

SPIN AND CONTRIBUTED BY ROTATIONAL SPECIFIC HEAT. EVERY ION CONTAINS ELECTRONS AND ALL ELECTRONS CONTAIN

NATURAL MAGNETIC MOVEMENT[BOHR].

NOW BECAUSE OF THE MASSIVE AMOUNT OF IONS PRESENT IN THIS IRON BALL A MAGNETIC CURRENT IS CREATED.A

MAGNETIC CURRENT OF GREAT PROPORTIONS. THE MAGNETIC CURRENT NOW MAGNETIZES THE VERY CORE OF THE IRON

BALL, THE IRON BALL CONTINUES TO DISPLAY MAGNETIC MOVEMENT [ROTATION] FREELY THROUGH SPACE IN DARKNESS

EACH LAYER COOLING FROM THE FREEZING TEMPERATURES IN SPACE CAUSING THROUGH ELECTROLYSIS WHAT IS NOW

KNOWN AS ROCK TO FORM ALL OVER THIS IRON BALL. MOLECULAR SPIN AND MAGNETIC MOMENT CONTINUE THROUGH

CONSTANT CYCLOTRON. THIS ALSO CAUSES MAGNETIC RESONANCE. ROCKS CONTAIN OXYGEN NATURALLY AS WELL AS

MINERALS . THE OXYGEN IS FREELY RELEASED INTO SPACES ATMOSPHERE. AT THIS POINT IN TIME THERE IS NO

“GRAVITATIONAL PULL” . AS THE ELEMENT HYDROGEN COMES INTO CONTACT WITH THE OXYGEN BEING RELEASED FROM

OUR IRON BALL THEY BEGIN TO BOND CAUSING WATER TO FILL IN THESE ROCKS.

SUDDENLY THE IRON BALL COMES INTO CONTACT WITH THE SUNS MAGNETIC FIELD. BECAUSE THE IRON BALLS CORE IS

IRON IT IS RAPIDLY PULLED BY MAGNETIC FORCE TOWARDS THE SUN. THE CLOSER THE IRON BALL GETS TO THE SUN

THE HOTTER THE BALL BECOMES, CAUSING WATER TO EVAPORATE IN LARGE QUANTITIES AS WELL AS AT A RAPID RATE.

EVAPORATION CAUSES THE OXYGEN TO RE-RELEASED. AS THE IRON BALL GETS CLOSER TO THE SUN THE PRESSURE THAT

BUILDS BETWEEN THE TWO ITEMS BECOMES ENORMOUS.

THE OXYGEN THAT IS RAPIDLY BEING RELEASED IS NOW UNDER EXTREME COMPRESSION, THE COMPRESSION IS CAUSING

OXYGEN TO CHANGE INTO LIQUID OXYGEN , LIQUID OXYGEN IS HIGHLY MAGNETIC. A MAGNETIC FIELD NOW FORMS

COMPLETELY AROUND THE BALL. THIS MAGNETIC FIELD NOW HAS IT'S OWN MAGNETIC PUSH INSIDE OF THE

MAGNETOSPHERE PUSHING TOWARDS THE MAGNETIZED CORE. ALSO PRODUCING MAGNETIC PUSH ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE

MAGNETOSPHERE. IT IS NOW ABLE TO REFLECT THE SUNS MAGNETIC PULL. THE EARTH DID NOT HAVE A MAGNETIC FORCE

THAT WAS NECESSARY FOR CATASTROPHIC COLLISION SO IT CREATED ONE UNDER”PRESSURE” SO TO SAY. SURVIVAL OF

THE FITTEST. IT ROTATES DUE TO MAGNETIC MOVEMENT. THUS CAUSING ORBITS AROUND THE SUN.

MEANWHILE INSIDE OF THE EARTHS NEW MAGNETIC FIELD MAGNETIC INDUCTION IS CREATED.

ALL LIVING MATTER IS COMPOSED OF MAGNETIC ELEMENTS[i.e. IRON].
Click to expand...

http://newtonsrival.hubpages.com/hub/Gravity-is-Magnetism
 
el es said:
A bit over my head, but kinda interesting.
Click to expand...

Interesting like an oddly shaped dog turd, maybe.

"This magnetic force of the nucleus forms the basic principle for the explanation of gravity."
Click to expand...

The guy that came up with this stupid idea doesn't have sense enough to pour piss out of a boot with instructions on the heel. He is a lost ball in high weed. Ah say, he's about a sharp as a bowling ball.:rolleyes:
 
impaJah said:
I'm not an expert in physics or anything but an interesting thought occurred to me today. I don't know if someone else has already thought of this. Could it be that what we perceive as gravity is just a heavily neutralized magnetic/electrostatic force? In other words our universe has struck a fine state of balance between the positive and negative electromagnetic forces leaving only a weak potential difference which we have labeled as "gravity."

Thanks for reading and I'm eager to hear the responses!!
Click to expand...

I have wondered if space-time has dielectric and fluid-like properties and if what we call gravity, is analogous to the surface tension for a surface trapped between two media, where massive objects cause indentations in the surface of space-time.

Gravity would not be caused by electromagnetism per se but it would be an effect of the indentations made by mass and energy on the surface :shrug:

The cheerios effect:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheerio_effect

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9425907/#.T1cBuPWDmSo




...
 
khan said:
I have wondered if space-time has dielectric and fluid-like properties and if what we call gravity, is analogous to the surface tension for a surface trapped between two media, where massive objects cause indentations in the surface of space-time.

Gravity would not be caused by electromagnetism per se but it would be an effect of the indentations made by mass and energy on the surface :shrug:

The cheerios effect:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheerio_effect

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9425907/#.T1cBuPWDmSo




...
Click to expand...

That's Einstein's theory isn't it? Anyway, the indentations might not be explained the way they are supposed to be explained. You might say that mass is creating the indentations, but I would say that negative mass is creating the indentations. So instead of thinking about the cheerios as mass, you think of the Cheerios as sponges. You then have to get your head around the paper clips as sponges too. You have to give electrons negative mass to do that. Then the paper clips become sponges for a smaller particle than water.
 
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origin said:
Really, that guy is more advanced. Well that is a rather embrassing admission.:eek:
Click to expand...

It's a girl actually, and feel free, along with AlexG, to sling insults instead of addressing the theory that was presented. This way people will be much more aware after reading this the value of the contributions you make to intellectual discussion (zero) and will know better for the future to ignore you. Thanks in advance!

Now... moving on to more important things...

A thought experiment:

Consider two magnetic monopoles with adjustable intensities and a mass that stays constant. Now put these two monopoles in a vacuum to observe them. At high intensities they will move toward and collide into one another very quickly. As the intensity is decreased incrementally the speed toward their center decreases proportionally to the increments.

Now where I think the disagreements start is when we approach a non-existent magnetic field. But remember! Such a thing does not exist! Even a spec of dust possesses a minuscule magnetic field because the movement of it's atoms electrons do not completely cancel each other out - it would be a 1 in a zillion to the zillionth power that any spec of dust would be ordered in such a way as to have no magnetic field (which probably has happened at some point in the course of the universe's life - but then who would have noticed it??)

Now why is it unreasonable to speculate that these tiny magnetic fields we and every object in nature possess to some degree are what's keeping us more attracted to earth than to space?

To believe in the current theory of gravity you actually have to invent a particle that hasn't been discovered yet... the jury's still out. How is it more plausible to rely on an imaginary particle (so far) when this is just as reasonable?
 
This crackpot theory has been around a long time in many incarnations. It has been debunked innumerable times and there's really no reason to have to do it again.
 
AlexG said:
This crackpot theory has been around a long time in many incarnations. It has been debunked innumerable times and there's really no reason to have to do it again.
Click to expand...

Then whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy are you hereeeeeeeeeeee??

You're all bluster and no substance. What have you added by this statement? What have you proved by this statement? Debunk it or leave. :soapbox:
 
impaJah said:
Now why is it unreasonable to speculate that these tiny magnetic fields we and every object in nature possess to some degree are what's keeping us more attracted to earth than to space?
Click to expand...

If magnetism is keeping a wooden table on the earth then why can I take a huge electromagnet, that can life a truck, and place it above the table with out it having any affect on the table? If the magnet has no affect on the table then the table should be weightless.
 
If gravity were electromagnetic, it would follow the laws of electromagnetism, which are quite well developed and understood.

It doesn't.
 
True Sapience

Please refer to my post, "True Sapience", for my input on this subject to your some of your behavior on this forum...

Thank you.
 
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