God must be lonely on Sunday ...?

[Tiassa]

NFL's "Minister of Defense", Reggie White, Dead at 43
Football great, Christian minister died in sleep

Reggie White is dead. In a day when professional athletes are keeling over in their forties from the effects of steroid and narcotic abuse, Reggie White's death stands out. There is no talk of drugs, of steroids. Reggie White was an ordained minister, an associate pastor in Knoxville, and an advocate for at-risk youth. His biggest scandal seems to be remarks made about homosexuals and ethnic stereotyping in a 1998 speech in Wisconsin.

And so I'll pick up on that. ESPN ran a quote that I'm searching for in the press; a fellow player said of White that a man like him shouldn't die in his sleep at 43. And a superficial examination, at least, seems to agree.

So why did God call good Reggie home? Here we find a problem in common monotheistic theology. Would we find it cruel to think that Reggie did something wrong in the Lord's eyes in his pastoral work? Was God just lonely on Sundays, looking for a decent fellow to catch the game and shoot a couple brews with?

Should I, as a vicious, liberal, reactionary anti-Christian point to Reggie's highlighting of the Bible's prohibition against sodomy and claim God called him home for stirring up anger?

No. Of course not.

And while it's easier to cite God's will when an event favorable to one's outlook has occurred, it is equally inappropriate to suggest that God sanctioned the bombing of the World Trade Centers as to say that God delivered lottery winnings to a woman in California whose grim task in life is to name and bury the morgue's youngest unidentified customers.

God works in mysterious ways. The tired proverb is enough to explain the situation.

It's easier to not worry about what God wants and just get on with the business of right and wrong.

Sleep apnea? That's no way for a good man to die.

What God wants?

Part 1
Part 2​

I'm not sure we should really give a damn what God wants.

Anyone is welcome to tell me what God wanted in Reggie White's demise. It's not like I'm in tears about it; he was a football player and not actually among my personal heroes. Rather, like most who know at least the difference between a fullback and a tailback, or what the "neutral zone" is, I'm surprised to hear that Reggie White is dead.

The theological musings, well, they pretty much write themselves.
_____________________

One link's as good as the next:

The Sports Network. "Reggie White dead at 43". SportsNetwork.com, December 26, 2004. See http://www.sportsnetwork.com/default.asp?c=sportsnetwork&page=/nfl/news/ABN3671713.htm​

 

[§outh§tar]

Remember tiassa,

God does not conform to your whims and logical standards. This may seem like a cop-out but it's true, just think about it. If God really can be described as omnipotent, would it make sense if He would be confined by man's logical constructs; would it make sense if what you saw as a pointless action, God too saw as a pointless action.

If you are to "rationally" accept the conventional western description of God, then you MUST concede that such a being is far removed from our our level of thinking. Anything less and He wouldn't be God. Might be trite but tis' true.

 

[Tiassa]

(Insert Title Here)

Indeed. It's not a cop-out at all. In fact, it's sort of the point behind my point. Or something like that.

(I see now that I should have included an "all of the above" option for the poll.)

 

[Leo Volont]

Many Atheists coopt a whiny tone as they seem to wimper that the World is not so perfect as it should be if there really was a God.

It shows a great lack of awareness about things Mystical. You would think that Atheists should at least do some homework on what they propose to believe... or not believe. Atheists throw their complete identity into denying the existence and providence of God, but almost as a first thought which they do nothing to examine... always turning over and elaborating that First Thought, but ever guarding against ever thinking twice.

If an Atheist were to look into it even a little bit, they would discover some universal truths common to all the Mystical Systems. The would be made aware that the World is a low place mixed with duality -- a place of light and darkness. If they should want to find the Perfections of God, they would need to consider Heaven, or even Higher.

Instead, the naive and uneducated Atheist will shed copious tears that the World is not as perfect as Heaven. Duh.

 

[audible]

Many Atheists coopt a whiny tone as they seem to wimper that the World is not so perfect as it should be if there really was a God.

no leo, wrong, to be an atheist,is to accept the world as is, and endeavour to better it. theres no need to whine it get's you nowhere.

It shows a great lack of awareness about things Mystical. You would think that Atheists should at least do some homework on what they propose to believe... or not believe. Atheists throw their complete identity into denying the existence and providence of God, but almost as a first thought which they do nothing to examine... always turning over and elaborating that First Thought, but ever guarding against ever thinking twice.

off course, it would be pretty stupid, to believe in mystical fantasy figures. I think you'll find the atheist knows exactly what they believe, and it's, through a lot of study that they come to these conclusions. are you talking about some other type of person, as you dont know an awful lot about atheism, you seem to be a produce of you own arguement, whiny tones and not knowing much.

If an Atheist were to look into it even a little bit, they would discover some universal truths common to all the Mystical Systems. The would be made aware that the World is a low place mixed with duality -- a place of light and darkness. If they should want to find the Perfections of God, they would need to consider Heaven, or even Higher.

same answer as above, and why, would they want to find, the perfections of a god, you dont know what an atheist is do you.

Instead, the naive and uneducated Atheist will shed copious tears that the World is not as perfect as Heaven. Duh.

the naive and extremely uneducated leo, does definitely need to study atheism, then he may understand that heaven/hell and god/devil do not exist to them. the world is not perfect, but it's the best, it can be, right now.

 

[top mosker]

Many Atheists coopt a whiny tone as they seem to wimper that the World is not so perfect as it should be if there really was a God.

It shows a great lack of awareness about things Mystical. You would think that Atheists should at least do some homework on what they propose to believe... or not believe. Atheists throw their complete identity into denying the existence and providence of God, but almost as a first thought which they do nothing to examine... always turning over and elaborating that First Thought, but ever guarding against ever thinking twice.

If an Atheist were to look into it even a little bit, they would discover some universal truths common to all the Mystical Systems. The would be made aware that the World is a low place mixed with duality -- a place of light and darkness. If they should want to find the Perfections of God, they would need to consider Heaven, or even Higher.

Instead, the naive and uneducated Atheist will shed copious tears that the World is not as perfect as Heaven. Duh.

Ah yes, the belief in a magical place in the sky absolves any and all responsibilities of god and all the faults of man. As long as you live a good life, according to a narrow set of instructions handed down and supposedly written by the aforementioned deity, even if your life isn't happy, you will be rewarded with a seat next to this super powerful eye in the sky who made your life a living hell back on earth for 60-80 years, but somehow is going to shed nothing but goodness on you for all the rest of eternity. Oh yea, I almost forgot, you get to play beach volleyball with magical winged beings called "angels." And all your dead relatives (at least the ones who spent their lives worshiping said diety) will be there too.

"Ignorant atheist." Heh.

I love irony and those that provide it for me through their own lack of self observation and egotism. :m:

 

[§outh§tar]

Ah yes, the belief in a magical place in the sky absolves any and all responsibilities of god and all the faults of man. As long as you live a good life, according to a narrow set of instructions handed down and supposedly written by the aforementioned deity, even if your life isn't happy, you will be rewarded with a seat next to this super powerful eye in the sky who made your life a living hell back on earth for 60-80 years, but somehow is going to shed nothing but goodness on you for all the rest of eternity. Oh yea, I almost forgot, you get to play beach volleyball with magical winged beings called "angels." And all your dead relatives (at least the ones who spent their lives worshiping said diety) will be there too.

Is that your reason for rejecting God?

 

[David F.]

Don't you know? To a Christian "to live is Christ and to die is gain". Christians are working, toiling for God while we live and after death is the reward for faithful service.

Non-Christians seem to think it is a bad thing to die and they won't believe that, from God's point of view, dieing means His saints are coming home. It simply makes no sense to blame God for taking someone home early.

 

[§outh§tar]

Non-Christians seem to think it is a bad thing to die

Such blatantly id---ic generalizations, I must never hear again. Where did you hear that from?

 

[top mosker]

Is that your reason for rejecting God?

I don't reject god. If I were to reject him, it would acknowladge that he exists.

No, I simply found out he doesn't exist. In thousands of years of human history he hasn't left one physical proof of his existence that could not be traced back to some paternalistic control structure or naive superstition. Yet somehow, he still demands we worship him on our knees.

Even if god were to exist, I would rather go through this life on my feet as a free man than a servant of some deity that doesn't even have the cahones to show himself.

 

[BlueMoose]

"So why did God call good Reggie home?"

-Well, I´ll play the ball...
...Lets assume that He didnt. Next morning Reggie wakes up and make some good cup of tea with crunchy toast. But then he realizes that hes favourite marmelade is running out and hell no toast cant be good without marmelade. So up and away to the store. Finally when just reaching the last bottle of marmelade on the shelf he hears angry voice behind. -No way you gonna take that, thats mine ! Reggie turns and sees drooling big ugly dude with eyes wide as teaplates. -I gotta have it you know, I gotta get my fix ! Then Reggie reaches out the bottle and when he try to give it to him, oh shit, it slips trough hes hands to thousands of pieces on the floor. -Thats it you mothafucka ! Big dude shouting like a madman while reaching hes uzi. Full panic in a store, bullets flying reaping cans, boxes and flesh...Next morning in the paper: "Eleven dead in 21st streets at Joes store!"
Mysterious are the ways of The Lord.
R.I.P Reggie.

 

[Tiassa]

§outh§tar

Such blatantly id---ic generalizations, I must never hear again. Where did you hear that from?

Fear of death is nearly universal. Since most, if not all, religions address death if not stem directly from the fear thereof, the lack of a proposed elixir does not, by any means, indicate a lack of malady.

Redemptive monotheists, such as Christians, while they are torn about how best to express the issue, tend to look forward to death. It's a comparison of currencies, so to speak. Make a million now and forfeit billions or trillions later? Spend eighty years being miserable but believing in a better thing for the promise of eternal happiness? It's merely a matter of priorities according to belief.

Blue Moose

But does that imply anything about free will?

Leo Volont

The petulance and inefficacy of many atheistic inquiries bothers me, as well, but I'm also aware that, at least insofar as atheists identifying against Christianity are concerned, their understanding is hindered by piss-poor communication on the part of Christians.

There are some atheists, even among the sniveling ones, who actually know more about the history of Christianity and Christian philosophy than the faithful.

Take anti-Catholics, for instance. We had an anti-Catholic here once upon a time who refused to address a simple question: If Catholics are so bad, why did God entrust His Word to them for fifteen-hundred years at least?

Additionally, this communicative problem exists throughout Christian history. Tertullian, for instance, is only marginally less ridiculous than Sean Hannity. But they come across the same. You'll find in the evangelical political base for the American GOP a number of rhetorical devices that add no meaning or depth to any discussion of religious ideas but have held out over the years, nonetheless.

The atheist faces a dilemma: On the one hand, a Christian will tell the atheist that the atheist doesn't understand because the atheist has not considered ______, but in the end there is no help to be found in whatever source the Christian names.

I do wonder about the anti-identification at that point. Something suggests it's not worth putting up with Christian arrogance and anti-communication. But religious issues quite obviously still insert themselves into otherwise-rational considerations of the human endeavor, and tend to screw things up. Atheists have a vested interest in understanding the religions nearest them, yet find no help from the faithful in that quest.

Your posts, for instance, are often so mystical as to confuse other Christians, and quite obviously that confounds the atheists. Nonetheless, hanging out on such a rhetorical limb does little, if any good, and that value, in the end, may be negated by the lack of sympathetic communicative value: you may be exacerbating the very problem you decry.

 

[BlueMoose]

"But does that imply anything about free will?"

-He did choose not to have toast without marmelade
-I was just pointing out that arguments like "God does have a plan" could be something like that LOL It was just for fun, ya know.
-About the free will thing, I´m not going that path now, ( I use my free will lol)
peace and take care.

 

[Tiassa]

Fair 'nuff.

 

[David F.]

Fear of death is nearly universal. Since most, if not all, religions address death if not stem directly from the fear thereof, the lack of a proposed elixir does not, by any means, indicate a lack of malady.

Redemptive monotheists, such as Christians, while they are torn about how best to express the issue, tend to look forward to death. It's a comparison of currencies, so to speak. Make a million now and forfeit billions or trillions later? Spend eighty years being miserable but believing in a better thing for the promise of eternal happiness? It's merely a matter of priorities according to belief.

Right, but my point was that if God does exists then when He takes one of His own home, that's a good thing. If God doesn't exist then you can't blame something which doesn't exist. Either way, it simply makes no sense to blame God.

 

[Q25]

Instead, the naive and uneducated Atheist will shed copious tears that the World is not as perfect as Heaven. Duh.

well excuse us for having an empathy,and feelings for other people,

I guess you laugh and celebrate when someone dies or gets hurt,right?
we have a word for fucks like that:a psychopath.

 

[§outh§tar]

I don't reject god. If I were to reject him, it would acknowladge that he exists.

No, I simply found out he doesn't exist. In thousands of years of human history he hasn't left one physical proof of his existence that could not be traced back to some paternalistic control structure or naive superstition. Yet somehow, he still demands we worship him on our knees.

Even if god were to exist, I would rather go through this life on my feet as a free man than a servant of some deity that doesn't even have the cahones to show himself.

I have written a proof of the supernatural somewhere on this forum if you are interested. I strongly recommend reading it before citing these as your reasons for disbelief.

 

[§outh§tar]

Fear of death is nearly universal. Since most, if not all, religions address death if not stem directly from the fear thereof, the lack of a proposed elixir does not, by any means, indicate a lack of malady.

Redemptive monotheists, such as Christians, while they are torn about how best to express the issue, tend to look forward to death. It's a comparison of currencies, so to speak. Make a million now and forfeit billions or trillions later? Spend eighty years being miserable but believing in a better thing for the promise of eternal happiness? It's merely a matter of priorities according to belief.

I dont' fear death. Fearing death is a matter of arrogance. No one has earned the right to live; I fail to see how going back to where we came from can be met with apprehension. As for Christian expectations for the afterlife, the wager holds sure. Either it's true or it isn't. It is rather a matter of anxiety. I may be anxious about dying without doing anything worthwile with my life.

But in relation to David F's statement and its context, you can clearly see that he was belittling "non-Christians" as if we are idiots for not betting in on his fanciful wager. Perhaps I erred when I believed everyone was as gutsy and fearless as I am but can you blame me? No room in heaven for cowards.

EDIT:
As an afterthought, anyone who gets angry or pouts or blames God for some calamity or death assumes erroneously that an omnipotent God has some sort of obligation to puny mortals. Funny how we laugh at stories of the ancients attributing thunder and earthquake to gods and yet when 9/11 happens, our fingers point to the sky in bitterness. I fail to see the logic

 

[Adstar]

Man... i hope i do not have to spend 80 years in this excrement hole.

Sleep apnia at 43
sounds good to me

All praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[top mosker]

I have written a proof of the supernatural somewhere on this forum if you are interested. I strongly recommend reading it before citing these as your reasons for disbelief.

I read it, and still know all the people that believe in magical deities are full of shit. I won't get into the post itself and will save my criticisms for that thread.