Get to know Mr. Trump, the president of United States of America

[Michael]

And you share much of his family values, morality first, taxation is theft, world view, as I quoted. As he declaimed, in more general terms: If you can't keep a city from drowning in sewage without an immoral tax-levying government, then you shouldn't have cities - which means, of course, doing something about the shit-free cities the intellectual elites with their immoral taxes have already set up.

So he did.

Penny drop?

Pol Pot was an Statist Authoritarian. A Communist. Extreme Progressive Socialist. He believed in initiating violence against morally innocent humans trapped in a geopolitical domain.

Most Communists, cannot maintain functional cities. Look at our Government run Schools where 1 in 5 graduates (GRADUATES) lack the ability to read and write competently. Only Government can sustain this level of inefficiency / bloated price and low quality. At least until society collapses. Which is currently happening in the West. IMO

As for Japan, they have mega cities where a large percentage of the population have private sewers. As a matter of fact, it would be possible to construct an entire city, the size of Tokyo, with only private sewers. Which are more environmentally friendly and cost effective. And moral.

Incidentally, the average IQ in Japan is about 105 whereas Cambodia is around 84-91. If you don't think this also plays a large role in why Cambodia became Communist and why it failed, well, that's something for you to consider. Low IQ people generally like simple ideas, like gimedat. That's the entire reason we HAVE Nation States and Religions. It provides simple people with their identity.


As an aside, I am curious though, would you consider Japanese Fascist? They have a Nation State. The government supports various private industries. And Japanese (like Chinese and Koreans) are in general quite Nationalistic when it comes to Ethnicity. E. Asians are quite 'racist' in that way. Though 'race' isn't really the correct term. There are Koreans who have lived in Japan for 3 generations are still not Japanese citizens.

So? Are Japanese Fascists? National Socialists? (minus the wars)

 

[iceaura]

Pol Pot was an Statist Authoritarian. A Communist. Extreme Progressive Socialist. He believed in initiating violence against morally innocent humans trapped in a geopolitical domain.

And you share key aspects of his worldview, in particular the immorality of the necessary governance of large cities.

. As a matter of fact, it would be possible to construct an entire city, the size of Tokyo, with only private sewers. .

No, it wouldn't. You'd have to have a city with only middle class and richer people in it.

Which are more environmentally friendly and cost effective. And moral

They are less environmentally friendly (treatment is the same, truck transport and the like is environmentally damaging). They are more expensive (handling and transporting sewage by truck costs more than by pipe). You and Pol Pot agree on the morality.

As an aside, I am curious though, would you consider Japanese Fascist? They have a Nation State.

No.
They were, in WWII. Examine the differences in Japanese government, then and now.

 

[Michael]

And you share key aspects of his worldview, in particular the immorality of the necessary governance of large cities.

I disagree with the premise involuntary government is required to maintain large cities. As I said before, you can have a city exactly as you wish, so long as everyone AGREES to the rules. Yes, even sewers.

Yes, I know this concept is difficult for you to grasp, which is why I used the sex example. It's the state of mind that is important not necessarily the behavior.

And no: Slaves didn't agree to a 'Social Contract' by being born on a cotton plantation.

 

[Michael]

No, it wouldn't. You'd have to have a city with only middle class and richer people in it.

You could know if it were possible through example, you cannot know if it's impossible.

It's more than possible to create and maintain large cities through volnetarism. My guess is, in a hundred years what is considered middle class today will be considered poor in Japan (and probably quite wealthy in the police states of the US and Europe).

Automation and AI will lift high IQ homogenous societies up to a new level of prosperity. Or so I think.

 

[Michael]

They are less environmentally friendly (treatment is the same, truck transport and the like is environmentally damaging). They are more expensive (handling and transporting sewage by truck costs more than by pipe).

Again, you are assuming this is the case. You can't know. Human waste may be a useful energy source. Or etc.... More than able to offset the cost and possibly defer other costs.

You just can't know.

They were, in WWII. Examine the differences in Japanese government, then and now

Germany learned quite a bit from the USA (the Nazi salute to a National flag for example) and they taught the Japanese.

The fact remains Japanese have large numbers of government supported private businesses, are ethnocentric (like Koreans and Chinese) and are a Nation State that practices socialism.

So? Are they categorized as National Socialists?

 

[iceaura]

You could know if it were possible through example, you cannot know if it's impossible.

Hence the employment of arithmetic, mathematics, and reason. Economic theory comes in handy, also physics.

Again, you are assuming this is the case. You can't know.

Yes, you can know. You can also - and this is what I was doing with your Tokyo example - observe.

Again, you are assuming this is the case.

I'm adding up costs, and pointing to physical reality. If wonderful technological innovations change the physical reality, then the cost estimation will change with it. Meanwhile, we're stuck on this planet.

So? Are they categorized as National Socialists?

That's an entity name, not a category. You can name your dog that.

The Japanese governance is not currently fascist, as it was during the first half of the 20th century. Question asked, question answered. What's your point?

 

[Michael]

Hence the employment of arithmetic, mathematics, and reason. Economic theory comes in handy, also physics.

No.

Definition:
A statement has existential import when its truth depends on evidence for the existence of things in a certain category--in the case of categorical propositions, the existence of things in the categories signified by its subject and predicate terms.

Example:
All Swans are white.

Argument: Using economic theory, modern physics, arithmetic, mathematics (redundant) we reasons all Swans are white. Oh shit, there's a black Swan.


As this is very easy to understand, your refusal to understand it is because you WANT to use violence against others. Which is why I stated earlier that it's the mental attitude that is important, not necessarily the action. Huge difference between donation and robbery, assisted suicide and murder, love and rape. The behaviors may be the same to an outside observer, but the difference in willingness, is all the difference in the world.


Anyway, we now live in a society where 98% of everyone agrees with you. Which is perfectly normal and why Governments have been so successful. So, accordingly, we have eroded away much of the private moral aspects of society and are now almost completely dependent on violence. Which is why we hear comments like the previous regarding tax. I mean, wow, how completely unAmerican and so very much U.S. Citizen. You'll get your Authoritarian, maybe right, probably left - and then finally you can learn why it's not a good idea. Until then, let's watch as the West implodes. I'm wondering when we begin to see White Lives Matter and White History Month and Equal Rights for Men and etc....

In the meantime, we can watch the prelude, the Trump Show

 

[Michael]

The Japanese governance is not currently fascist, as it was during the first half of the 20th century. Question asked, question answered. What's your point?

What change would have to occur in Japan for the Government to be considered Fascist?

 

[iceaura]

Argument: Using economic theory, modern physics, arithmetic, mathematics (redundant) we reasons all Swans are white.

You do, maybe. What I'm arguing, by reason and observation, is that there are no 500 pound flying swans, and if you ever breed a 500 pound swan it won't be able to fly, and if you ever managed to engineer or otherwise create a 500 pound flying organism it won't be a swan.

Which is why I stated earlier that it's the mental attitude that is important, not necessarily the action.

Yours is more or less identical to Pol Pot's. Is that important to you?

What change would have to occur in Japan for the Government to be considered Fascist?

Among others: takeover of the government by the representatives of a military/industrial complex, and the transfer of power from the legislature to a strongman and his close associates, who establish control via paramilitary force (police, militia, "National Guard", and the like).

Some stuff about myth-invoking charisma and racial/ethnic identification of an enemy goes in there as well, but that would be the basics.

 

[Michael]

You do, maybe. What I'm arguing, by reason and observation, is that there are no 500 pound flying swans, and if you ever breed a 500 pound swan it won't be able to fly, and if you ever managed to engineer or otherwise create a 500 pound flying organism it won't be a swan.

This was the SAME line of reasoning that Slave owners used (which means we're right back here again with you arguing we have to poop on ourselves or we don't get to live in big cities, and if I say then so be it [which I do not agree with the premise] then I'm Pol Pot - even though he was a Socialist, which shows you how asinine this is).

The fact is, Japan actually has large cities (see: Kyoto) where people do in fact have private privies (and you recall I linked the studies). Yes, the Japanese have been centralizing their sewers - well no SHIT (lol). How many times have I said, the State is a cancer in all aspects (including taking a poo), it will grow, and grow, and grow, until it kills the host. Usually, towards the end, the State starts a bunch of phony wars and manipulates the currency. But it does indeed kill the host, which is us. So, just like EVERYTHING the State touches, it slowly metastasizes and takes over those services (see: GiverMint Schooling).

Now, the fact is, just as Slave owners didn't know magical satellites would directly control massive farming machines that ran off sunshine juice buried in the ground, YOU (and I) have no idea what a voluntary city may look like, we certainly do not know if one is possible (hint: it is possible). How do we get there? Well, firstly we have to END the federal reserve's monopoly over money. Then we invent a new kind of money - one where everyone knows exactly how much everyone else has and exactly what they're spending it on. Algorithms can look to see who is producing value and who is wasting resources and full of shit

People will use this currency voluntarily, because it is better.

That's just a start too. Think of the biological changes that will occur. The AI that will be invented. The automation that will be nearly limitless in it's ability to perform tasks. It most certainly IS possible to poop voluntarily in a big city But not if we continue to rely on violence. IF we go that route (which we will) then I suspect there'll be hell to pay. You think things are difficult now, just imagine when a right wing nationalist cuts off all welfare and deploys "Home Land Security" against 'Terrorists' rampaging through the cities because 8 generations of welfare have left them hopeless - and with IQ's in the low 80s. Or a Left Leaning Socialist literally sends out death squads killing first those that are useless [see IQ 80s above - which will be "Progressively" assessed using objective IQ tests] and then The 'Rich'. Who are those? Anyone with anything to steal.


Pick your poison

 

[Michael]

Yours is more or less identical to Pol Pot's. Is that important to you?

Pol Pot was an Extreme Socialist, that he may have liked green tea and believed we could poop in large cities is moot. He believed in the initiation of violence for the good of society because, well, you guessed it: You Use The Roads. He also had two arms. Two legs. So they say.

Among others: takeover of the government by the representatives of a military/industrial complex, and the transfer of power from the legislature to a strongman and his close associates, who establish control via paramilitary force (police, militia, "National Guard", and the like).

I wonder: If the POTUS sends "Home Land Security" into Welfare Ghettos and various slums and cities and towns all across the USA (to the cheers of the masses who want free-shit and an end to 'domestic terrorism' - you know, where you can't go into a part of the city at night because you'll be murdered) to enforce Federal Law, using military grade hardware - would you then say that this is all that is required to turn our lovely Constitutional Republic into a Fascist State?

Just like that?

Or is it just another day of Life On The Farm? No big deal.


Because it seems to me, like there's a lot of things that have already have had to happen to go from limited Constitutional Republic to Fascist State. You know, like: our having a MIC to begin with; having agreements between the Government and large arms dealers that sell into the never-ending-phony-wars; having a NSA that spies on "The People" (for the good of the roads - which are free, curtsy of GiverMint); having 'HomeLand Security' anal probing you while you smile knowing you're a good Citizen of the Republic; the DEA, the CIA, the FBI, and etc... and an IRS / Central Bank that issues fiat currency units to pay for it all.

Maybe we're already there? National Socialism may not be as far away as one would like to think Really just one step away or two?

We just need "The" Messiah. Who knows? Ten, twenty years? Then we can turn our never-ending-phony-wars in the ME towards the real 'terrorists': "The People". You know, for the good of "society".

I had to hit her, because I loved her. It was for her own good / socialism.
LOL

 

[youreyes]

Michael, what exactly are you advocating? The dangers of possible National Socialism in US and its fascist oppresive regime?

 

[wellwisher]

Michael, what exactly are you advocating? The dangers of possible National Socialism in US and its fascist oppresive regime?

Wouldn't an oppressive regime increase the role and control by government, by increasing the number of rules, laws and regulations? Trump must be an amateur oppressive fascist since he decreasing the role of government, and given more rights to the people. For example, he has told all the agencies, if there is a problem between citizens and government err on the side of the citizens. This is pure amateur oppressive fascism.

 

[iceaura]

This was the SAME line of reasoning that Slave owners used

No, it wasn't. Exactly the opposite is the case - I linked and quoted for you, last time you posted that deluded inversion of recorded history.

As documented, the Slave Owners used your arguments, not mine - free market the only moral way, no government coercion, taxation is immoral, private property the basis of all morality, the whole shot. As with Pol Pot and the immorality of cities, you simply deny the alignment of your thinking - because you don't like the real life consequences.

The fact is, Japan actually has large cities (see: Kyoto) where people do in fact have private privies (and you recall I linked the studies).

So do many lakeside communities near me. We've been over this - do you not remember how it went? There are no cities anywhere in which poor people have arranged for sanitary sewage disposal without a government levying taxes. Not Japan, not anywhere. Not now, not ever in the past. If some government does not install a sewer system and levy taxes to pay for it, where the lower classes live in large cities there is sewage in the public streets. The reason for that is straightforward economics: the person paying for sanitary disposal of their own sewage is not the person enjoying the benefits - they pay for their neighbor's benefit, and their neighbor pays for their neighbors, and so forth. So if you live where others can't pay, you get no benefits if you pay. So in those neighborhoods nobody pays.

YOU (and I) have no idea what a voluntary city may look like, we certainly do not know if one is possible (hint: it is possible).

So quit trying to tell people what it has to look like, especially when your fantasy involves the impossible as already established.

Because it seems to me, like there's a lot of things that have already have had to happen to go from limited Constitutional Republic to Fascist State.

Absolutely. And one of the reasons we are headed that way is the startling influence of an entire intellectual class of people like you, Ayn Rand fuckwits who can't tell left from right - which means they can't see tyranny coming from the right, which is where it's coming from in the US.

 

[joepistole]

Wouldn't an oppressive regime increase the role and control by government, by increasing the number of rules, laws and regulations? Trump must be an amateur oppressive fascist since he decreasing the role of government, and given more rights to the people. For example, he has told all the agencies, if there is a problem between citizens and government err on the side of the citizens. This is pure amateur oppressive fascism.

Did he? Is that really what he said?

Just because he might deregulate the banks or oil industry, it doesn't follow that the role of government has also been decreased. What's troubling about Trump is his attempt to control and suppress the media and undermine our key democratic institutions. So while he might pass some deregulation in some industries his efforts to increase control of the media and suppress voting is more concerning and more controlling.