Evidently it wasn't anything serious since the charges were dropped.
You guys do know about george zimmerman's dad being a judge for the supreme court right?
George Zimmerman found Not Guilty.
- Thread starter Saturnine Pariah
- Start date
You guys do know about george zimmerman's dad being a judge for the supreme court right?
I can't tell if that's a joke but I guess I must assume it is.
Two separate examples: you misread.
[shrug] Not worth arguing about anymore. If you want to post some quotes to support your assertion feel free, but it makes no sense to bicker about historical facts. They are what they are. In this case, you have several key historical facts wrong, including that one.
[edit] Ok, I think I see what this one's about. The juror made a statement about considering stand your ground principles. AC should have pressed for clarification at the time, but it appears to me that the juror didn't recognize that the stand your ground principle is a specific criteria in the self defense statute but rather thought it was the overall term for self defense. But later in the interview she makes clear on multiple occasions that the key deciding factor was that Zimmerman was on the bottom and being beaten, a position that put him in fear for his life at the time of the shooting and what happened minutes earlier (ie, that he could have fled minutes earlier) was not relevant.
For some reason this appears to have a bunch of liberal crackpots worked-up in a tizzy on the internet. I suppose it may be because they believe that if Florida didn't have a stand your ground law, Zimmerman would have been found guilty -- but they are wrong.
Huh? What nonsense is that?! Witnesses don't decide guilt or innocence, jurors do. Witnesses are just there to testify to facts (such as who was on top). So the fact that the witnesses didn't conclude Zimmerman was not guilty is like saying Ken Griffey sucks because he never won the Indy 500!
I side with those that find this case basically announcing the legality of being able to pick a fight of your choosing, and when losing said fight shoot your challenger dead, added to this is that if your challenger is a black male in a hoodie then you have very likely chosen correctly for a free get out of conviction card.
Others claim that Martin had attack Zimmerman, what evidence do you have of this, other then zimmerman's claims of course? The girl friend who heard Martin's last phone call testifies nothing to the sort. Zimmerman choose to leave his car and chase after Martin, thus he attacked martin, unless evidence can be found that martin chased after zimmerman!
What can be learned from this is best implemented by the black community because clearly the legal system has once again failed them: If someone is chasing you do not run, do not confront, place hands over head and fall to ground, let them beat the shit out of you/rob you/arrest you (depends on who your attacker is, you don't know and it does not matter really, just do this to optimize survival), if you lay a finger on them they will "fear for their life" and be able to legally shoot you dead. Actually I think this is pretty good advice, for example most black people are suspicious and snipidy with police because police are generally racist pigs. Black people should in fact be the opposite (if they want to live) and if pulled over should immediately get out of their car fall to the ground place hands over head as a matter of procedure before the pig even gets out of his car door. When the police ask "why are you laying on the ground!" the only response should be "SIR, because I'm black, SIR, Please don't kill me, SIR". Now thanks to Zimmerman its best if black males do this procedure when ever any white person starts chasing them, does not matter if its a uniformed officer or not.
Now I don't see why white people should not do this as well, sure chances are far less likely, but if you value your life and accept the reality of "stand your grounds" implementation, this is the best that can be done to prevent getting legally shot. Anyone sick enough can now pick a fight with anyone, let the other person start winning that fight and then "fear for their life" and shoot that person dead, it does not matter if they are black or white as long as they can get the jury to sympathize with them.
Others claim that Martin had attack Zimmerman, what evidence do you have of this, other then zimmerman's claims of course? The girl friend who heard Martin's last phone call testifies nothing to the sort. Zimmerman choose to leave his car and chase after Martin, thus he attacked martin, unless evidence can be found that martin chased after zimmerman!
What can be learned from this is best implemented by the black community because clearly the legal system has once again failed them: If someone is chasing you do not run, do not confront, place hands over head and fall to ground, let them beat the shit out of you/rob you/arrest you (depends on who your attacker is, you don't know and it does not matter really, just do this to optimize survival), if you lay a finger on them they will "fear for their life" and be able to legally shoot you dead. Actually I think this is pretty good advice, for example most black people are suspicious and snipidy with police because police are generally racist pigs. Black people should in fact be the opposite (if they want to live) and if pulled over should immediately get out of their car fall to the ground place hands over head as a matter of procedure before the pig even gets out of his car door. When the police ask "why are you laying on the ground!" the only response should be "SIR, because I'm black, SIR, Please don't kill me, SIR". Now thanks to Zimmerman its best if black males do this procedure when ever any white person starts chasing them, does not matter if its a uniformed officer or not.
Now I don't see why white people should not do this as well, sure chances are far less likely, but if you value your life and accept the reality of "stand your grounds" implementation, this is the best that can be done to prevent getting legally shot. Anyone sick enough can now pick a fight with anyone, let the other person start winning that fight and then "fear for their life" and shoot that person dead, it does not matter if they are black or white as long as they can get the jury to sympathize with them.
Not much sense in that post. Where i live there is no "stand your ground" law.
As far as someone "picking" a fight, someone can "pick" all the fights they want. There is a difference between "picking" a fight and attacking another person. "Picking" a fight is too vague, and i cannot see that term would be used in a court room to decide a case.
"Anyone sick enough can now pick a fight with anyone, let the other person start winning that fight and then "fear for their life" and shoot that person dead"
That happens already, as a matter of fact is common to any street fight.
Ah. So rather than being violent, you think he just lied to a judge about a legal matter. Should we trust the word of someone who has lied to a judge in the past?
None.
You must have a very different circle of friends than I do.
It is unfortunate that you, like a lot of people, have stopped reading what you are responding to, and are instead just arguing the same tired talking points that the media supplies you with.
Once again, I am answering Username who commented that Zimmerman didn’t seem like a violent person. A court order to protect someone else against his violence, and a history of violence against cops, argues against that. It does not make him a murderer, it just makes him a person with a history of violence. If, due to your political beliefs, you feel compelled to defend Zimmerman on general principles, and try to prove his innocence even after a court did the same thing, feel free - but your repeated insistence that a man with a history of violence has no history of violence doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Uh, no, you need to stop getting your information from conservative talk radio and start using primary source material. Further, just because people disagree with you it doesn’t mean they are “liberal” or “crackpots”. Name calling is another one of those fallacies upon which you rely so heavily. It’s called ad hominem. And frankly, I find it incredulous that you feel you have any grounds to feel that your position is better grounded when time after time you have been proven to be wrong. In fact, I cannot think of one instance in which you have been correct. You are the guy who thought the court declared they jury experts for God’s sake! A rational person would not need to rely on incorrect facts and illogical argument in order to make their case. So I think you need to take your own advice and question why incorrect facts and illogical argument are so crucial to the case you are trying to make.
I suggest you read a transcript of the AC360 interview. According to the interviewed juror, the juror who is trying to sell a book about her experience as a Zimmerman juror and is a very biased pro Zimmerman juror, and contrary to your claims, the jury was not unanimous about Zimmerman’s guilt or innocence. Contrary to your claim, half the jurors felt Zimmerman was guilty of murder or manslaughter. And when you are done with reading the text of the AC360 interview, I suggest going back and reading the court transcripts. Stand your ground was a part of the court case.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1307/16/acd.01.html
JUROR B37: It wouldn't have made a difference if they would have given us the same paperwork they gave us. They gave us the laws and we went by the laws, and that's how we found him innocent. If they would have given us manslaughter and everything that was attached to it, it would have come out the exact same way.
COOPER: And then it was basically because of the jury's reading of the law that everybody finally decided manslaughter doesn't hold?
JUROR B37: That's exactly why.
COOPER: Was there any holdout?
JUROR B37: There was a holdout, and probably -- well, we had another vote, and then everybody voted -- put it in the little tin. We had a little tin, folded all our little papers and put it in to vote, and she was the last one to vote. And it took probably another 30 minutes for her to decide that she could not find anything else to hold George on, because you want to find him guilty of something. She wanted to find him guilty of something, but couldn't because of the law, the way the law is written. He wasn't responsible for negligible (sic) things that he had done leading up to that point.
COOPER: Did you also want to find him guilty of something?
JUROR B37: I wanted to find him guilty of not using his senses, but you can't fault anybody -- I mean, you can't charge anybody for not being, I guess, I don't know, you can't fault him -- you can't fault -- you can't charge him with anything, because he didn't do anything unlawful.
COOPER: You are saying he overreacted or maybe was too eager, made bad choices, but it wasn't against the law.
JUROR B37: Exactly, that's exactly what happened.
COOPER: You're saying maybe it wasn't right -- it wasn't right getting out of that car, but it wasn't against the law?
JUROR B37: Exactly. He started the ball rolling. He could have avoided the whole situation by staying in the car, but he wanted to do good. I think he had good in his heard. He just went overboard.
Well now it codified in law as legal. Picking a fight and attacking are all relative terms, it just matter that the defense words it well enough to sway the jury, if it even gets far enough in the judicial system for a jury that is.
As for not living in a "stand your ground" state/country, congratulations you live in a place with slightly more civilized laws.
===========
We then contacted the Virginia Supreme Court to confirm Robert Zimmerman’s employment.
Kristi Wright with the Department of Legislative and Public Relations wrote us this email in response:
“Robert J. Zimmerman served as a full-time magistrate from 2000-2006. Please be advised that in Virginia magistrates are judicial officers, but they are not considered "judges" and do not possess trial jurisdiction. More detailed information on the role of the magistrate in Virginia is available on Virginia's Judicial System Website .
Read more: http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/crime/zimmerman-dad-worked-as-magistrate#ixzz2ZJlaXY5Q
==========
And now we have 4 Zimmerman jurors who have issued a letter through the court to disassociate them from the AC360, “I wanna book deal”, airhead juror. Gee, I wonder why?
What do you mean? His Dad is a retired magistrate for the supreme court. I imagine he would have some pull. Does the fact that charges are dropped or reduced, make a crime less serious? Or could it mean they probably had good legal representation and struck a deal to get it reduced or dropped?
George Zimmerman is a coward but I understand why the jury found him innocent, SYG law. Having said that, if I had been on the jury and given the same evidence my verdict would have been different. George was not justified in using his sidearm. Why didn't he at least fight back with his hand, his legs, his teeth, I mean he had all kinds of options before he ever went for his gun. My verdict due to the kind of injuries George suffered, and that he did not bother to fight back with nothing but a gun, is unjustified deadly force.
Maybe this is at least some kind of consolation, some kind of justice
The letter is printed below from his Facebook page: Alex Fraser
Dear George Zimmerman,
For the rest of your life you are now going to feel what its like to be a black man in America.
You will feel people stare at you. Judging you for what you think are unfair reasons. You will lose out on getting jobs for something you feel is outside of your control. You will believe yourself to be an upstanding citizen and wonder why people choose to not see that.
People will cross the street when they see you coming. They will call you hurtful names. It will drive you so insane some days that you'll want to scream at the top of your lungs. But you will have to wake up the next day, put on firm look and push through life.
I bet you never thought that by shooting a black male you'd end up inheriting all of his struggles.
Enjoy your "freedom."
Sincerely,
A black male who could've been Trayvon Martin
Maybe this is at least some kind of consolation, some kind of justice
The letter is printed below from his Facebook page: Alex Fraser
Dear George Zimmerman,
For the rest of your life you are now going to feel what its like to be a black man in America.
You will feel people stare at you. Judging you for what you think are unfair reasons. You will lose out on getting jobs for something you feel is outside of your control. You will believe yourself to be an upstanding citizen and wonder why people choose to not see that.
People will cross the street when they see you coming. They will call you hurtful names. It will drive you so insane some days that you'll want to scream at the top of your lungs. But you will have to wake up the next day, put on firm look and push through life.
I bet you never thought that by shooting a black male you'd end up inheriting all of his struggles.
Enjoy your "freedom."
Sincerely,
A black male who could've been Trayvon Martin
Zimmerman may have pulled strings, he did get a sweetheart deal, considering assaulting a police officer is generally a felony offense.
What makes you think it's not properly normalized to account for actual crime rates? It talks about % likelihood of successfully employing the self-defense argument on a case by case basis for each category, normalized relative to the probability that it works in a white-on-white case. Please elaborate on where the math is false.
My question is this, how many people does Zimmerman have to kill before justice is rendered? I don't think Zimmerman is suddenly going to reform magically overnight. He has a record of violent acts and escaping punishment for those acts. So why should he stop. His history has shown there are minimal consequences for his violent actions. So I don't think this is Zimmerman's last act of violence. Does anyone here remember OJ Simpson? That was another travesty of justice.
I was a volunteer full-time community organizer at the time and missed large portions of the trial, but everywhere I went people from all strata of the population were watching and riveted to their TV's. Did the judge allow O.J.'s previous domestic abuse in?
No, he didn't.
Justice was rendered, at least the best we have. My whole issue with the case initially was that it wasn't going to trial - and while I couldn't know what really happened, surely killing an unarmed teenager you were chasing down deserved at least a trial. I'm glad it was decided by a judge and jury rather than a cop at the scene.
Neither do I. But he's not a murderer; he is at most guilty of being stupid and causing someone else's death as a result (i.e. manslaughter.) He did not seek out Martin with the intent of killing him - he pursued him with the idea of being a neighborhood hero who would chase those undesirables out and restore harmony to the neighborhood. By pursuing an unarmed teenager and forcing a confrontation - a confrontation that he used deadly force to stop - he is certainly guilty of being shortsighted, unrealistic and downright stupid.
But that's not a crime. And he will almost certainly not do this again; no neighborhood watch is going to use him for one thing, and spending months in jail (and tens of thousands in legal bills) is a pretty good incentive to not be as stupid in the future.
Wow ...I didn't know this.
Wth?
I know past incidents are not permissible but wth!?
I blame the system not the jurors.
Not the media.
The system is quite bluntly...fucked.
sonofanarchy
Registered Member
I'm sick and Tired
I have never been a racist. In fact, I cruised the streets of Atlanta with a number of blacks in the 60s and my perspective changed. Now, my perspective is changing again. When are blacks going to understand that the way to overcoming racism is when we quit isolating the races into categories such as black and white. Blacks want a hand out. Reach out and ask for a hand instead and together this thing called racism will be gone. We are all human, not black or white, but people of color (Hu-men). Zimmerman's trial ended as it should have ended. There was no evidence that the man intended the death of Trayvon Martin. There certainly was no evidence that he shot Trayvon because he was black. Our system of justice is the best in the world. We could go back, of course, to tribal days, when the tribal chief looked in the eyes of the accused and determined his guilt or innocence. Wow...wonder how many of us would be in prison under that system. Love America, reach out and take a hand, or get out. In African nations where there are no whites, there is no racism...I suppose. In white nations where there are no blacks, I imagine the same. If we can't live together after all these years without someone saying...have pity on me because I am black..or because I am white...then its time to get out... Do you really think there is no racism in tribal Africa?
I have never been a racist. In fact, I cruised the streets of Atlanta with a number of blacks in the 60s and my perspective changed. Now, my perspective is changing again. When are blacks going to understand that the way to overcoming racism is when we quit isolating the races into categories such as black and white. Blacks want a hand out. Reach out and ask for a hand instead and together this thing called racism will be gone. We are all human, not black or white, but people of color (Hu-men). Zimmerman's trial ended as it should have ended. There was no evidence that the man intended the death of Trayvon Martin. There certainly was no evidence that he shot Trayvon because he was black. Our system of justice is the best in the world. We could go back, of course, to tribal days, when the tribal chief looked in the eyes of the accused and determined his guilt or innocence. Wow...wonder how many of us would be in prison under that system. Love America, reach out and take a hand, or get out. In African nations where there are no whites, there is no racism...I suppose. In white nations where there are no blacks, I imagine the same. If we can't live together after all these years without someone saying...have pity on me because I am black..or because I am white...then its time to get out... Do you really think there is no racism in tribal Africa?