Gas pistol for self defence

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http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/grizzly/bear spray.pdf

Living with Grizzlies Fact Sheet No. 8
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
Mountain-Prairie Region, P.O. Box 25486
Lakewood, Colorado 80225
phone 303/236-7905, fax 303/236-3815
website: www.r6.fws.gov
Bear Spray vs. Bullets
Which offers better protection?
At first glance, this question may seem like a no-brainer. After all, aren’t guns made to kill, while pepper
spray (so-called “bear spray,” when it comes in big cans) does not? Unlike an attack by a human assailant,
who may be able to use your own weapon against you, that safety/survival argument for using pepper spray
doesn’t apply to a human-bear encounter... or does it?
When it comes to self defense against grizzly bears, the answer is not as obvious as it may seem. In fact,
experienced hunters are surprised to find that despite the use of firearms against a charging bear, they were
attacked and badly hurt. Evidence of human-bear encounters even suggests that shooting a bear can escalate
the seriousness of an attack, while encounters where firearms are not used are less likely to result in injury
or death of the human or the bear. While firearms can kill a bear, can a bullet kill quickly enough -- and can
the shooter be accurate enough -- to prevent a dangerous, even fatal, attack?
The question is not one of marksmanship or clear thinking in the face of a growling bear, for even a skilled
marksman with steady nerves may have a slim chance of deterring a bear attack with a gun. Law
enforcement agents for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service have experience that supports this reality --
based on their investigations of human-bear encounters since 1992, persons encountering grizzlies and
defending themselves with firearms suffer injury about 50% of the time. During the same period, persons
defending themselves with pepper spray escaped injury most of the time, and those that were injured
experienced shorter duration attacks and less severe injuries. Canadian bear biologist Dr. Stephen Herrero
reached similar conclusions based on his own research -- a person’s chance of incurring serious injury from
a charging grizzly doubles when bullets are fired versus when bear spray is used.
Awareness of bear behavior is the key to mitigating potential danger. Detecting signs of a bear and avoiding
interaction, or understanding defensive bear behaviors, like bluff charges, are the best ways of escaping
injury. The Service supports the pepper spray policy of the Interagency Grizzly Bear Committee, which
states that bear spray is not a substitute for following proper bear avoidance safety techniques, and that bear
spray should be used as a deterrent only in an aggressive or attacking confrontation with a bear.
Like seatbelts, bear spray saves lives. But just as seatbelts don’t make driving off a bridge safe, bear spray
is not a shield against deliberately seeking out or attracting a grizzly bear. No deterrent is 100% effective,
but compared to all others, including firearms, proper use of bear spray has proven to be the best method for
fending off threatening and attacking bears, and for preventing injury to the person and animal involved.
Because the grizzly bear is federally protected in the Lower 48 States as a threatened species, it is a violation of the
Endangered Species Act (ESA) to shoot one, except in self defense and defense of others during an imminent
attack. Penalties under the ESA include up to 6 months in prison and a $100,000 fine. Additional penalties may
also apply to violations of state law. For more information about bear spray and its effectiveness, see:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r1/wildlife/igbc
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- N
 
Well, I'd prefer to test the gun before buying. ;)
Besides the shop owner can't then sell me shit, because he knows that I can come back and demand the money back.

Sneezing and having a bad sense of direction is good as well. I hike in heavy army boots with titanium foot inlet, besides being totally waterproof and protecting against sharp objects (our forests are laden with echoes of war) they are quite heavy and excellent for "reinforced" kicking.
 
Thanks for that article, Neildo!!!
While we have only a few brown bears in our forests, this applies to stray dogs, wild boars and wolves in winter too.
Thanks!
 
Oh yeah, aside from the mechanism you're going to carry, I'd say the most important part is the quality of the mixture you're using, whether the spray canister or the ammo. Is there any information as to the quality of the pellets that gun you're interested in fires?

- N
 
I don't have any info on that yet, but I'll be sure to ask the shopkeeper.
One my work collegue showed some of his pepper ammo and there was written - Only against animals.
So I guess it meant that it shouldn't be used against humans, so maybe it's quite powerful.
Or maybe in the producer's country it's illegal to use pepper ammo against human-animals.
 
Just get a big knife and hope no farmers come after you. Especially if their from Georgia or someplace like that.:wave:
 
One my work collegue showed some of his pepper ammo and there was written - Only against animals.
So I guess it meant that it shouldn't be used against humans, so maybe it's quite powerful.
Or maybe in the producer's country it's illegal to use pepper ammo against human-animals.
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Yeah, if it mentions animals, it usually has a higher concentration and Scoville rating, but the main reason is due to politics. If something is labeled as an animal repellent and whatnot, it's classified as a pesticide, which would be illegal to use against humans even though it's practically made the same, just classified differently.

It's the same way with natural drugs and herbs. Even though we know certain herbs are helpful, many types of vitamins, aspirins, etc will say "this hasn't been tested by the FDA" etc etc because under it's natural form, it can't be classified as a drug and what they're selling to you is basically a drug. I dunno, I can't remember the exact details of it all, but it's basically some political thing like that.

So yeah, if the pepper is for animals, it's classified as a pesticide and can't be used against humans even though there's no real difference, it's just political marketing label wording. Saying "for use against animals" makes it sound better so it may sell better, but that's just a label kinda like when Nvidia had their whole ad campaign that said "Best Played on Nvidia" during a game even though an ATI card was faster on it, etc, but then because of that label, it's classified differently. And if it doesn't mention animals, it's classified as a food grade substance by the FDA so it's legal against humans, but due to it being a food grade substance, it doesn't have many regulation so you'll see lots of different varieties claiming such-and-such even though it may be weaker although claiming to be better for marketing purposes.

Most animal sprays may have a higher concentration, but you can get the same quality that's legal against humans. Just don't think that because it says to be used against animals that it's somehow better. What you want to look at is the SHU rating to see how hot it is. Don't even bother looking at the silly OC rating because you can have a 2% rated spray be way hotter than a 30% spray due to the peppers and whatnot used making the scoville rating way higher. How in the heck a weak spray can be rated high, I have no idea, but it comes down to silly marketing again. So look at the peppers in the pellets and make sure the scoville rating is high, at least 4-5 million+.

- N
 
I have three, but they are good only for wood craft - preparing fire wood, sharpening staffs, making totem poles, giving light signals and the like. Real life is not jungle book, and I'd take a staff before a knife any time.

That, and I already said that I'm interested in pepper based repellants. The question now is - is spray enough or do I need a pepper gas pistol too.

I doubt there would be any Georgian farmers in Latvian forests and fields.
 
Most animal sprays may have a higher concentration, but you can get the same quality that's legal against humans. Just don't think that because it says to be used against animals that it's somehow better. What you want to look at is the SHU rating to see how hot it is. Don't even bother looking at the silly OC rating because you can have a 2% rated spray be way hotter than a 30% spray due to the peppers and whatnot used making the scoville rating way higher. How in the heck a weak spray can be rated high, I have no idea, but it comes down to silly marketing again. So look at the peppers in the pellets and make sure the scoville rating is high, at least 4-5 million+.
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Thanks!! You've been of great help. :)
 
Here's some reading for ya that explains it better than I did:

Hot or Not? The Myths About Pepper Spray
by M. David West, NLETA Charter Member

NLETA Online Magazine
February 9, 2003

Ever since 1974, when the first Oleoresin Capsicum (OC) product specifically developed for law enforcement began to get marketed and sold out of a garage in a south Florida home, Aerosol weapons have become increasingly popular. Unfortunately, outside of a short course taught at the basic academy, little exists for most agencies in the way of advanced OC training, and a multitude of myths about what OC is, how it works, and what it's capabilities and limitations are have risen over the last 3 decades. Like all defense tools, the proper use of OC requires training. This article represents no replacement for that formal training, but is written only in hopes of dispelling some of the most common myths and misconceptions regarding OC and its proper use.

Myth #1 - Percent equals pain!
It is commonly believed that the higher the percentage of OC in an aerosol unit, the more effective it will be. This is simply untrue. In simplest terms, the percentage of actual active ingredient in a unit relates much more to the amount of time it will take an exposed subject to decontaminate than it does to the amount of "heat" felt. The question to ask is 10%, 15%, or 20% of WHAT? Is the base pepper a jalapeno, cayenne, or a habanero? How refined was the pepper before it was used in the formula? These things obviously should make a difference.

The true measure of heat is determined by the SHU, or the Scoville Heat Units found in the canister. SHU is a culinary scale that was developed to measure the heat in peppers, and helps us to determine the effectiveness of various OC sprays. A green bell pepper is the base of the scale and holds a rating of 0 SHU. As a matter of reference, a jalapeno pepper typically rates between 3,000 and 5,000 SHU. Fox Labs 5.3 on the other hand is rated at 5,300,000 SHU. High SHU ratings are obtained through the hybriding of certain pod peppers and then through a detailed refining process. Placing a large amount of poorly refined, garden-variety peppers in an aerosol unit does not make it hot. When considering the purchase of a canister of OC always check the advertised SHU. If the manufacturer boldly advertises percentages, but refuses to place the SHU rating on the can, chances are there is a reason for this.

Myth #2 - Pepper Spray doesn't work on persons of certain ethnic backgrounds.
This is probably the single largest myth in the history of pepper spray. As a result of having "hot" diets, including numerous peppers, it is commonly believed that people of Hispanic origin may not be as readily affected by OC. The reality is that no pepper, no matter how often it is ingested is as hot as most law enforcement grade OC. Pepper sprays effect subjects both physiologically and psychologically. While it is possible for a goal directed person, or someone under the influence of drugs or alcohol to overcome the actual pain associated with OC and continue to fight, it is impossible for them to overcome the physiological effects on their bodies. OC, when inhaled, inflames the mucus membranes of the nose and throat, resulting in coughing and gagging, thereby making breathing difficult. OC will cause eyes to twitch spasmodically and close, causing temporary blindness and loss of balance. The capillaries in the eyes will dilate when exposed to OC, and a burning sensation will be felt on any exposed skin. Goal directed subjects may overcome the pain, but are still placed at a disadvantage by being exposed to OC by its ability to take away their vision and their respiration pattern. OC will effect everyone differently based on their individual pain thresholds and raw determination, but has no way of knowing a persons birthplace, diet, or cultural background.

Myth #3 - More is Better!
This is yet another falsehood. Most OC manufacturers recommend spraying an offender with ½ - 1 second, short "bursts." If more OC is needed, it is recommended that more short bursts are used. If multiple bursts do not place the offender into a non-assaultive position, it is time to try something else. Spraying an offender with bursts longer than 1 second in length can actually be counterproductive. OC aerosol weapons generally contain three basic substances in the container. An active ingredient of refined pod pepper is used to incapacitate the offender. A solvent is utilized to emulsify the active ingredient and place it in a liquid state. Lastly, a propellant is added to the canister that allows the solvent/active ingredient mixture to be expelled from the canister onto an offender. In order for the pepper spray to be most effective, it is essential that the propellant and solvents used in the formulation of the pepper spray be able to fall out of or evaporate from the mixture rapidly, so that the offender is only exposed to pure active ingredient, leaving nothing to get in between the offenders skin and the "heat" of the product. By spraying a subject with a long, continuous burst, one can actually experience a washing effect where the solvent and propellant, still in the mixture, wash the active ingredient from the intended target area (eyes, nose, and mouth) and onto a less reactive area of the face.

Myth #4 - All OC is created Equal.
Because OC is generally an unregulated product, there are a multitude of "bathtub blends" available at every discount retailer and convenience store in America, and it is generally believed that all pepper sprays are about the same in terms of quality and reliability. As stated before, it is important for the defense-oriented consumer to become knowledgeable about OC, and check the SHU and percentages of active ingredients in particular prior to any purchase. This however is not enough. As a rule of thumb I tell students and student instructors to never purchase an OC product anywhere they can purchase beer or blue jeans. Rely on established law enforcement supply shops and reputable gun shops to help you with your purchase. Only purchase products made by established, well known manufacturers, and check out the OSHA materials safety data sheet for specific ingredients whenever possible. If you wouldn't trust your personal safety or the safety of your loved ones with a bargain basement, used, unchecked firearm, why would you trust an unproven, bargain basement OC? The cost difference in discount brand pepper sprays and law enforcement grade aerosol weapons is incidental, and well worth the peace of mind that the extra dollar may cost you.

Conclusion
Pepper Spray is an effective tool that should be carried by all law enforcement officers. Firearms are not the answer to every defense situation, and it is essential that we have the proper tools available to us as the situation dictates; else we sacrifice officer and suspect safety. However, with any defense tool comes the responsibility to train and become proficient with it. If you currently carry pepper spray or intend to in the future, seek training and find out everything you need to know about it to reduce your personal liability and to maximize its effectiveness.
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- N
 
I would not mess with sprays on a big animal, especially outdoors. With a gun it will make you feel safe but most likely in the woods if someone wanted to kill you they would stalk you for awhile and you would never get a chance to even take it out.

Not to mention your serial killers. Have you ever seen the movie deliverance?

sjff_01_img0130.jpg
 
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The question now is - is spray enough or do I need a pepper gas pistol too.
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It all depends on the range in which you want to engage the animal. If you want maximum range, use the pepper gun. Hopefully you could even just fire near it to scare it away from the sound and mist and maybe the fumes tickling it's noise making it go away rather than having a full-on engagement. If you don't mind being under 15 feet in range at a higher risk, you can use the spray. Or you can play it safe and carry both.

I'm not a hunter so I don't really know much about wild animal confrontations and how they react, but I know their sense of smell is much greater than ours so the peppers outta be more effective against em. I know they're curious so hopefully just a quick shot can spook em off without actually hitting em and pissing em off, heh.

- N
 
Well, I'm not a hunter, but I spend lots of time in the woods.
An animal mainly can attack you on three occasions, provided that you got noticed.

1. Rabid animal. Spooky stuff. Avoid physical contact at all costs. Rare, but extremely dangerous.
2. He's already pissed off, because you're in its territory. Double that if it has cubs. Tripple if those are wild boar cubs. This is the most usual contact - an animal protecting its territory.
3. Really, really hungry animals. A rarity, because there's usually lots of game in our forests, but it happens in cold winters with wolf packs. Raided a few farms by a forest a few years ago.

I think I'll buy a pepper gun in order to increase my range and double my ranged defence capability. I usually carry a staff too. I'm trained with japanese bo and jo staffs, but I usually make one from a forest branch too. For a calming effect I even sometimes sharpen one end.
 
Buffalo Roam said:
When a soldier kills himself while cleaning his gun that is usually a polite way of saying he commitd suicide.
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That is the real news. What I do not understand is, we spend hundreds of billions in war (you do what you must), but the soldier's well being is not addressesd properly - making sure his family is OK etc. There should be a compete familiy support unit that are professional and have money for that support. Whatever ragtag group exists, they need to beef it up.
 
wish we had protection in australia
we got the worst criminals here and they all kiddy thingos
they get kicked outta other countires and flee to you know where
and they dont pass certain history tests to do with hitler and get embarrassed and run here so we got dummies as well as dirt scum
and no gun laws to protect us
dam its hard when you cantfight against dirty people with high jobs
 
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