Freewill - an act of improvisation?

The quantum world is the world of quantum effects. I will undoubtably make myself a fool if I try to elaborate too much. Maybe John or Quantum will fill in.

But, the quantum world is not causal in the same way our world is. Sometimes effect precedes cause. Sometimes there is no cause at all. Think uncertainty principle and you're halfway there....

Oh, it deals with the very, very small. Subatomic.
 
Oh, I thought I'd throw this in any way and maybe John and I can compare notes ( when he finally posts)

Whilst being no specialist in understanding current research I have heard that concepts of distance and separation are being found to be flawed.

That the separation at a quantum level is non-existent. The ability to transfer photons ect have all started to show through.

From my understanding the human life form exists in all levels from the macro to the micro thus our ability to communicate regardless of distance ( distance being an illusion at a quantum level.) means that our concept of freewill needs to consider impacts at a quantum level.

A lot of our thinking and feelings are at a quantum level thus as a community we are effectively joined as one at this level. So what happens on the otherside of the planet has an immediate effect on this side at a quantum level.

From an ESP perspective this quantum level affords us the ability, again as time and distance looses relevance.

This also puts the speed limit of 'c' at a quantum level in conflict and I am sure this post will inspire a little concern.

IMO I feel within the next few years we will come to find that spacetime is both 'c' rated and also zero rated.

Thus free will is also impinged upon......

My opinion only.....
 
This quantum interaction for example allows us the ability to "feel" something for the persons we talk to on the internet, friendships and other relationships would be impossble with out it
 
Just another angle to this issue of feewill and improvisation. I am sure it has been used before.

If we wanted to create a robot, an android, how woudl you program it to have free will?
How would you program it to imprvise a solution to a problem?

What prompts this angle is tonight we have that film AI ( artificial intelligence) showing.

The boy robot seems to have a form of free will I guess however he gets hung in that his programming leads him to a point where he makes an impossible wish "Please Blue fairy make into a real boy so my mother will love me" or something to that effect. The blue lFairy being a mythical entity embodied in a inanimate statue at an amuzement park.

He repeats the question over and over for what was it 2000 years and eventually is helped by other entities in his quest to fulfil his programming.
The robot is unable to reject his programming and reprogram (improvise) himself to a better existence.

edit: Ok I watched the film again and I was wrong...blue lady should read blue fairy and his wish was to become a real boy so that his mother would love him........
 
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When we talk of free will and improvisation, and what defines the specialness of humanity I think these lyrics say heaps:


THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM (J Darion, M Leigh)
To dream the impossible dream,
to fight the unbeatable foe,
to bear with unbearable sorrow,
to run where the brave dare not go...

To right the unrightable wrong,
to love pure and chaste from afar,
to try when your arms are too weary
to reach the unreachable star!

This is my quest --
to follow that star
no matter how hopeless,
no matter how far --
To fight for the right
without question or pause,
to be willing to march into hell
for a heavenly cause!

And I know
if I'll only be true
to this glorious quest
that my heart
will be peaceful and calm
when I'm laid to my rest.

And the world will be better for this
that one man, scorned and covered with scars,
still strove with his last ounce of courage
To reach the unreachable stars!

To be able to fantasise the impossible, to get lost in a dream, to allow delusion, to escape into the realms of the imagination, to improvise our existence in any form that we choose to do so.
 
If we wanted to create a robot, an android, how woudl you program it to have free will?
How would you program it to imprvise a solution to a problem?
Click to expand...

Well, according to the Hitchhiker's Guide, they went about it by programming a robot to scoop up a herring sandwich from the floor. The scoop was designed to drop the sandwich once the robot straightened up again. So, the robot would see the sandwich, say to itself "Oh, look. A herring sandwich." It would then bend over to scoop it up, straighten up, drop the sandwich, see the herring sandwich on the floor and say... They soon learned that they had discovered boredom and many more emotions came soon after.

:D (Hey, at least I dredged up HHttG reference more obscure than 42.)

Seriously, I would try to model the human brain as closely as possible. Build up the seperate parts of the mind, one on top of each other. Make them unaware of each other. Object oriented programming so to speak. Then place the chatterbox on top of the whole mess and convince it that it was in charge. Would have to experiment with how to provide an emotional feedback loop. Probably something similar to Aasimov's method of increasing positronic flow or whatever. Allow the juice to flow more freely.

Perhaps that would be the toughest nut to crack. Emotional response. If there is no way to accomplish this through hardware, it might take wetware. Add some biologic elements that can "feel" for the machine.


By the way, way to quote Don Qijote. :D I've never seen it, but I vividly recall Sam Beckett performing it in Quantum Leap. Chasing windmills... Good way to look at improvisation.
 
I think the main point about the dream is that humans have the ability to be incredibly illogical with purpose......an incredible ability to think and act paradoxically.

To be able to imagine round squares or square circles....to conjure up impossible scenarios and ambitions. To believe that one day they will win the lottery even when you don't buy a ticket. etc etc....to apply the finite to the infinite finitely.

To create a machine that is so impossible to create........"humanity...you amaze me!!"
 
Holy shit... Speaking of will and improvisation and Don Quixote, I'm presently watching Lost in La Mancha, a documentary detailing Terry Gilliam's attempt to make a movie about Don Quixote. Gilliam is being beset with iniquity in a most unfair manner. On the first day of shooting, F16's decide that it would be a good idea to circle the sight. The second day, there is a flash flood at the sight. F16's are back on the third day. Damn, man. This is a complete exercise in improvisation and will. The movie was eventually cancelled. So, free will lost in this scenario.
 
I haven't finished the movie yet, but I think the movie is kaput. The actor playing Don Quixote is also having prostate problems. And the insurance company is doing what insurance companies do, playing the cheapskate and refusing to pay for anything. He's desperately trying everything he can to keep the film going, but calamity after calamity...

Sorry to cheapen the thread with this, but I just couldn't resist after you brought up Don Quixote's song. The coincidences were too great...


Edit: Update. 6 months after the cancellation of the film, Gilliam tries to give it a second shot. Guess who he had to buy his script back from? The insurance company... :eek: Guess they were the best improvisors...
 
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BTW,

I think the only man who can play Don Quixote is Fernando Rey.
I think the man has already passed away though, sadly.
 
sadly I have never seen the work. Hopefuly one day I will. I am only familiar with some of the concepts that it delves into and even this is shakey at best.
 
I think the only man who can play Don Quixote is Fernando Rey.
Click to expand...

Nope, Jean Reachforte or something like that. A frenchie. Turns out it wasn't his prostate, it was a herniated disk or something. Maybe Fernando Rey was his second choice? Was he beset with iniquity once again?

Edit: Doh!! I misread your statement. Thought you meant he was the guy playing it. I have to say that this Jean Reachforte guy looked the part to a tee. It was a bit strange that he had a French accent, but post-production does wonders. Dude looked just like the pictures they were showing from one of the published books.
 
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Quantum Quack said:
If we wanted to create a robot, an android, how woudl you program it to have free will?
Click to expand...

I thought we both agreed just there that there was no such thing in our universe?!

Do u mean apparent free will again?
 
I thought we both agreed just there that there was no such thing in our universe?!

Do u mean apparent free will again?
Click to expand...

Ok maybe we go for the optimum amount of apparent freewill??

The programing would have to include the ability to program it self, for starters.
 
How can you program imagination or the ability to imagine...maybe some virtual reality that it can run simulations on before making a decision prehaps? Say a copy of what it percieves as reality that it can experiment with?
 
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