Floods

[timojin]

Does anyone have information on the formation of the strait of Hormuz.
I have a hunch that it have some to do with the Noah flood .
I believe the Persian gulf was a lake, and during the melting of glaciers in the north by Georgia the melted water followed down between Iran and Saudi Arabia into the lake ( future Persian gulf ) than it broke through to make an exit into the Indian ocean.

 

[spidergoat]

There is no such thing as the Noah flood.

 

[timojin]

There is no such thing as the Noah flood.

It is a label, would it be better if is called the flood of Bum Bah . The fact we have several straights and it believer thy wher product of water breakthrough,
so I am hypothesizing . about the formation of the strait of Hormuz

 

[exchemist]

Does anyone have information on the formation of the strait of Hormuz.
I have a hunch that it have some to do with the Noah flood .
I believe the Persian gulf was a lake, and during the melting of glaciers in the north by Georgia the melted water followed down between Iran and Saudi Arabia into the lake ( future Persian gulf ) than it broke through to make an exit into the Indian ocean.

The Persian Gulf is a Foreland Basin, created by the convergence of the Arabian tectonic plate with the Eurasian plate. I can't find any information about the sea level changes in that region at the time of the last ice age, but it is likely that it contained either sea or a lake during earlier epochs.

There are theories of sudden breakthrough of dammed water in the case of the Bosphorus and even the English Channel, but I cannot find any such theory relating to the Strait of Hormuz. However that does not rule it out. It may be simply that it has not been studied, due to the difficulty in gaining access for geological study because of the military and strategic sensitivity of the area. I used to drive in the wadis across the base of the Musandam, but if you went North you rapidly got Omani military checkpoints and were forced to turn round. It was, and is, pretty tense round there.

 

[sculptor]

and

and:

The strait of Hormuz is shallower than most of the Persian gulf basin. From depth charts, it does not appear that the gulf was suddenly flooded by a cascade of inrushing water as we see in the Black and Mediterranean seas. What seems most likely is that the early civilizations along the river valley and fresh water lakes were experiencing flooding in stages via and coincidental with melt-water pulses from melting glaciers into the oceans.
To the best of my recollection there does not seem to be firm evidence for anything greater than several villages along the river and lakes which seem dated to 7-8 kybp.
However, just upriver stone artifacts dating to at least 75 kybp have been verified.

And, we have the current archaeological wild card: Göbekli Tepe! Of which, Klaus Schmidt said that the older structures were the best constructed. Which could reasonably bring one to conclude that Göbekli Tepe was preceded by something that is now hidden under the sea(s).
If so, then where is/was Göbekli Tepe's precursor?

 

[spidergoat]

It is a label, would it be better if is called the flood of Bum Bah . The fact we have several straights and it believer thy wher product of water breakthrough,
so I am hypothesizing . about the formation of the strait of Hormuz

The Noah myth is probably based on the Epic of Gilgamesh and one of the yearly floods of the Euphrates.

 

[sculptor]

The Noah myth is probably based on the Epic of Gilgamesh and one of the yearly floods of the Euphrates.

Why use the word "myth" instead of "story"?

 

[timojin]

and

and:

The strait of Hormuz is shallower than most of the Persian gulf basin. From depth charts, it does not appear that the gulf was suddenly flooded by a cascade of inrushing water as we see in the Black and Mediterranean seas. What seems most likely is that the early civilizations along the river valley and fresh water lakes were experiencing flooding in stages via and coincidental with melt-water pulses from melting glaciers into the oceans.
To the best of my recollection there does not seem to be firm evidence for anything greater than several villages along the river and lakes which seem dated to 7-8 kybp.
However, just upriver stone artifacts dating to at least 75 kybp have been verified.

And, we have the current archaeological wild card: Göbekli Tepe! Of which, Klaus Schmidt said that the older structures were the best constructed. Which could reasonably bring one to conclude that Göbekli Tepe was preceded by something that is now hidden under the sea(s).
If so, then where is/was Göbekli Tepe's precursor?

Thank you it is very interesting. Between stage III and stage IV could be where the flood could have taken place ?

 

[timojin]

The Noah myth is probably based on the Epic of Gilgamesh and one of the yearly floods of the Euphrates.

Even if it could be based on Gilgamesh plates, the point is that in that area a flood have taken place.
Since the civilisation of Sumer was in that region, the area where they lived that was their world, So for them the world was flooded.

 

[sculptor]

I would have guessed stage III Which could place it before the wild card.
And

In recent years, archaeologists have turned up evidence of a wave of human settlements along the shores of the Gulf dating to about 7,500 years ago. "Where before there had been but a handful of scattered hunting camps, suddenly, over 60 new archaeological sites appear virtually overnight," Rose said. "These settlements boast well-built, permanent stone houses, long-distance trade networks, elaborately decorated pottery, domesticated animals, and even evidence for one of the oldest boats in the world."

But how could such highly developed settlements pop up so quickly, with no precursor populations to be found in the archaeological record? Rose believes that evidence of those preceding populations is missing because it's under the Gulf.

"Perhaps it is no coincidence that the founding of such remarkably well developed communities along the shoreline corresponds with the flooding of the Persian Gulf basin around 8,000 years ago," Rose said. "These new colonists may have come from the heart of the Gulf, displaced by rising water levels that plunged the once fertile landscape beneath the waters of the Indian Ocean."

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101208151609.htm

And, he continues:

Evidence is also emerging that modern humans could have been in the region even before the oasis was above water. Recently discovered archaeological sites in Yemen and Oman have yielded a stone tool style that is distinct from the East African tradition. That raises the possibility that humans were established on the southern part of the Arabian Peninsula beginning as far back as 100,000 years ago or more
...
The Gulf Oasis would have been available to these early migrants, and would have provided "a sanctuary throughout the Ice Ages when much of the region was rendered uninhabitable due to hyperaridity," Rose said. "The presence of human groups in the oasis fundamentally alters our understanding of human emergence and cultural evolution in the ancient Near East."

It also hints that vital pieces of the human evolutionary puzzle may be hidden in the depths of the Persian Gulf.

 

[spidergoat]

Why use the word "myth" instead of "story"?

Because these kinds of stories are commonly referred to as mythology. They contain fantasy elements.

 

[spidergoat]

Even if it could be based on Gilgamesh plates, the point is that in that area a flood have taken place.
Since the civilisation of Sumer was in that region, the area where they lived that was their world, So for them the world was flooded.

OK, but floods happen wherever civilizations commonly arise, which is near rivers.

 

[TheFrogger]

"There is no such thing as the Noah flood."-Posted by Spidergoat.

Then where did Earth's oceans appear from? I believe it rained for forty days and forty nights! Quite simple to count (if you are there.) Another exercise could be to measure the time taken to meet the singularity (one) and then, again, to double this time until one reaches two. To experience the same thing twice!

Hence my name, Counter! I have a habit of counting things. I believe the distance between each moment (regardless of how far apart they actually are) is one-hundred.

(1*10)/(1/10)

To multiply by ten you move the decimal place the number of zeros starboard. When dividing, you move it left.

10/0.1

0.1 is one hundredth of 10 (0.1*100=10 (0.1,1,10)) and 10 is a hundred times larger. The continuation of this exercise means every possible moment is encountered.

To solve the equation we multiply both top and bottom by 10:

100/1=100!

 

[Janus58]

"There is no such thing as the Noah flood."-Posted by Spidergoat.

Then where did Earth's oceans appear from? I believe it rained for forty days and forty nights!

Let's see, to fill the oceans, during 40 days and nights of rain, it would have to rain at a rate of 0.08 cm (.031 in) per sec. While this doesn't seem like much, it works out to over 226 ft of rain per day. That's 45 times the total rainfall dumped on Texas by Harvey. That much rainfall would not only have filled the oceans, but also washed the land away clear down to the bed rock. There would not have been any arable land left afterward.

 

[Yazata]

Why use the word "myth" instead of "story"?

I'm more inclined to interpret the Noah's flood story as mythological than historical.

I doubt that it is an echo of historical events that may or may not have taken place at the end of the last ice age, many thousands of years earlier, when sea levels rose dramatically.

I'm more inclined to interpret it as a late Hebrew version of a much older Mesopotamian proto-philosophical myth. Myth can perhaps be described as the expression of what we today might think of as philosophical ideas in the form of stories instead of theories. Myths identify (and often personify) what people think is most important about their environment and then explain how that environment came to be the way it was thought to be, often using the model of human relationships between gods that functioned like personified abstract principles.

I think that flood myths are kind of an early proto-metaphysics. In many ancient myths, water represents chaos. That's largely because it is formless and takes the form of whatever container it is placed in. So we see myths imagining that the primordial state of being was water, and that creation was the imposition of form onto the formlessness. (An early version of the matter/form ontology that we later see with the Greeks and even into the present.) Water was what the Greeks called the 'arche' (primordial stuff), pure potentiality in Aristotle's thinking, while form was the spiritual element, the design that the rational 'logos' imposed on the formlessness to make it actually be something in particular.

We still see hints of this kind of by-then long traditional mythological cosmology in Genesis 1:2, which reads: "Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." My guess is that kind of language came from the same traditions that the flood myth came from.

In ancient Mesopotamia the biggest natural danger was flooding, when the Tigris and Euphrates rose out of their banks and threatened to destroy all of humanity's works, returning everything to the chaos from which it had originally emerged

I think that's the context of the Noah's flood story. It's an attempt by the Hebrews to employ this then-ancient and long-traditional imagery to depict their God tiring of his creation and returning it to the chaos to which he had originally given form with his Word.

 

[Magical Realist]

Hebrew Concept of the Universe

 

[timojin]

I'm more inclined to interpret the Noah's flood story as mythological than historical.

I doubt that it is an echo of historical events that may or may not have taken place at the end of the last ice age, many thousands of years earlier, when sea levels rose dramatically.

I'm more inclined to interpret it as a late Hebrew version of a much older Mesopotamian proto-philosophical myth. Myth can perhaps be described as the expression of what we today might think of as philosophical ideas in the form of stories instead of theories. Myths identify (and often personify) what people think is most important about their environment and then explain how that environment came to be the way it was thought to be, often using the model of human relationships between gods that functioned like personified abstract principles.

I think that flood myths are kind of an early proto-metaphysics. In many ancient myths, water represents chaos. That's largely because it is formless and takes the form of whatever container it is placed in. So we see myths imagining that the primordial state of being was water, and that creation was the imposition of form onto the formlessness. (An early version of the matter/form ontology that we later see with the Greeks and even into the present.) Water was what the Greeks called the 'arche' (primordial stuff), pure potentiality in Aristotle's thinking, while form was the spiritual element, the design that the rational 'logos' imposed on the formlessness to make it actually be something in particular.

We still see hints of this kind of by-then long traditional mythological cosmology in Genesis 1:2, which reads: "Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." My guess is that kind of language came from the same traditions that the flood myth came from.

In ancient Mesopotamia the biggest natural danger was flooding, when the Tigris and Euphrates rose out of their banks and threatened to destroy all of humanity's works, returning everything to the chaos from which it had originally emerged

I think that's the context of the Noah's flood story. It's an attempt by the Hebrews to employ this then-ancient and long-traditional imagery to depict their God tiring of his creation and returning it to the chaos to which he had originally given form with his Word.

You are Wissing with our 21 century knowledge available . Would you believe the Great lakes were product of glaciers ? If you had a child 5 years old and the child would ask you . How the lakes were made . Your lash out your wisdom of why glacier were formed and and the period of change of tilting of the earth ? Now if you were an American native 20o years ago I am not going to push 1000 years . What would be your explanation ?

 

[Bowser]

Never thought much about floods until witnessing one years back. All it required was a night snow and the pineapple express to ravage the area with water.

 

[spidergoat]

Then where did Earth's oceans appear from?

Before that there were no oceans?

 

[billvon]

Why use the word "myth" instead of "story"?

Because that's pretty much the definition: "a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events."