FLASHBACK: Einstein was right: space and time bend:

[paddoboy]

I mean there must be something physical...there must be something like an ether

With your ether comment, I would ask, could spacetime itself be inferred as the ether? If one feels the need. Why not, I ask?

After giving that some thought, I now can see [I think] where my thoughts on spacetime as possibly being the ether is wrong.
The ether of Michelson and Morley fame, was thought of as an absolute frame of reference by which you can measure the speed of light against, which such an ether would have provided.
The framework of spacetime, on the other hand, are variable concepts that can be warped, curved, twisted and waved.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

After giving that some thought, I now can see [I think] where my thoughts on spacetime as possibly being the ether is wrong.
The ether of Michelson and Morley fame, was thought of as an absolute frame of reference by which you can measure the speed of light against, which such an ether would have provided.
The framework of spacetime, on the other hand, are variable concepts that can be warped, curved, twisted and waved.

No no no Paddo...I can not for one moment accept that you could possibly be wrong...I think what has happened your emotions motivated by kindness has caused you to try to accommodate my thoughts expressed earlier which means in effect that it I that was wrong trying to fit my speculations into the current model.

Your observations re MM are as far as my limited understanding takes me are entirely correct.

And if I may remind you .you have pointed out in the past we wait for a quantum theory of gravity and I expect such a theory will show us what particles are at play. It is then we can look and ask if we can call the arrangement something akin to an ether.
Alex

 

[paddoboy]

No no no Paddo...I can not for one moment accept that you could possibly be wrong...I think what has happened your emotions motivated by kindness has caused you to try to accommodate my thoughts expressed earlier which means in effect that it I that was wrong trying to fit my speculations into the current model.

Well, if the truth be known, I certainly am one kind, emotional, accommodating son of a bitch!!!

But I'll see what more I can find on that proposal.

 

[Schmelzer]

Here is that irrefutable proof of the reality of spacetime.......

The only thing which is irrefutable is that this guy has no idea about scientific methodology.

Else he would know that there can be no such irrefutable proofs for physical theories even in principle.

 

[paddoboy]

The only thing which is irrefutable is that this guy has no idea about scientific methodology.

Else he would know that there can be no such irrefutable proofs for physical theories even in principle.

Agreed...nice pickup Schmelzy.
Outstandingly convincing is far better...

 

[Schmelzer]

Outstandingly convincing is far better...

In fact, in 1909 there was some more or less convincing point, but I would not name that point outstandingly convincing. At least not outstanding enough to accept such a strange construction like that spacetime or block universe. That thus, last but not least, multiplying entities without necessity - a whole dimension was added to what was necessary.

A much stronger point came with general relativity - namely, no one extended the Lorentz ether interpretation to the Einstein equations. So, from 1915 to 2002 (or if you like even 2012) there was no viable ether theory of gravity.

Today the situation is different. We have an ether interpretation of gravity, we have one for the SM, quantizing gravity is a quite straightforward exercise for ether theories given we know how to quantize condensed matter theories. But the spacetime interpretation fails for quantum effects, one would have to give up realism as well as causality (without any necessity, given the alternative) to save the spacetime interpretation.

 

[paddoboy]

In fact, in 1909 there was some more or less convincing point, but I would not name that point outstandingly convincing.

No convincing or overwhelmingly supported is more correct and valid.

(or if you like even 2012) there was no viable ether theory of gravity.
Today the situation is different. We have an ether interpretation of gravity,

We have many hypothetical accounts of gravity, your's being one. [I see where you linked to that somewhere, but can't be bothered looking] Understandable why any Mother sees her own child as the most beautiful.