spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
My understanding is that there are automatic spending cuts which kick in if no agreement is reached. Mostly on military spending.
Fiscal Cliff
- Thread starter Buddha12
- Start date
But if its agreed to extend the bush tax cuts on the middle class that would count as an agreement, basically they can say "defer spending cuts until Jan 1 2014" as the last sentence to an extend the bush tax cuts for the middle class bill.
Right, but again they would have to agree to that. If they do not, then the cuts (sequestration actually) begin.
I seriously doubt the republican would allow a cut of that size to the defence budget!
All the democrats have to do to force that to happen is to do nothing. And both sides are very good at doing nothing.
I heard he purged Ron Paul supporters - not that it matters, the good ship lollipop is sinking. AND thank the Gods good riddance too.
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so to reiterate Obama simply restating in effect the dems won the election they get to set policy not the republicans is telling them fuck you. I know your a typical republican who thinks your party is the only one who gets to set policy but guess what cupcake you lost america doesn't want your ideas so perhaps you and the politicians of your party need to grow up and start acting like adults rather than spoiled children whining that they aren't going to get their way.
Not Quite Stranger Than Fiction
Not Quite Stranger Than Fiction
It might actually read like a joke. To wit, the setup:
And the punch line:
As Mr. McConnell initiated a filibuster against his own bill, Mr. Reid responded, "What we have here is a case of Republicans not taking yes for an answer."
Was a time when this sort of thing would have been a joke few found funny because it didn't seam realistic. These days, it's not funny because it seems to be the sort of thing we should expect of Republicans.
____________________
Notes:
Weisman, Jonathan. "Reid Calls McConnell's Bluff on Debt Ceiling". Debt Reckoning. December 6, 2012. NYTimes.com. December 6, 2012. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/us/politics/debt-reckoning.html
Not Quite Stranger Than Fiction
It might actually read like a joke. To wit, the setup:
President Obama, hoping to resolve the so-called “fiscal cliff” and at the same time avoid another debilitating fight over the nation’s statutory borrowing limit, has proposed a deficit-reduction plan that includes a measure that would permanently weaken Congress’s control over the debt ceiling. The plan, first dreamed up last year by Mr. McConnell, would allow the president to raise the borrowing limit on his own. Congress would be able to disallow the debt-ceiling increase, but such a move could only be sustained by a two-thirds majority vote, since the president could veto the legislation blocking the debt ceiling rise.
Mr. McConnell, believing some Democrats would vote against the president’s debt-ceiling proposal, moved Thursday to put it on the Senate floor for a quick vote. If it could not muster a majority, Republicans would say Mr. Obama cannot even unify his own party.
(Weisman)
Mr. McConnell, believing some Democrats would vote against the president’s debt-ceiling proposal, moved Thursday to put it on the Senate floor for a quick vote. If it could not muster a majority, Republicans would say Mr. Obama cannot even unify his own party.
(Weisman)
And the punch line:
But Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, the Senate majority leader, called Mr. McConnell’s bluff. He said he would put the McConnell debt-ceiling proposal to a vote if Mr. McConnell would let it pass with a simple majority, not a filibuster-proof 60 votes. Seeing he overplayed his hand, Mr. McConnell objected.
As Mr. McConnell initiated a filibuster against his own bill, Mr. Reid responded, "What we have here is a case of Republicans not taking yes for an answer."
Was a time when this sort of thing would have been a joke few found funny because it didn't seam realistic. These days, it's not funny because it seems to be the sort of thing we should expect of Republicans.
____________________
Notes:
Weisman, Jonathan. "Reid Calls McConnell's Bluff on Debt Ceiling". Debt Reckoning. December 6, 2012. NYTimes.com. December 6, 2012. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/us/politics/debt-reckoning.html
That is pretty funny! But it demonstrates two things very clearly. One, it shows how disconnected Republicans are from reality. McConnell should have known Democrats would have supported McConnell’s bill. After all President Obama has advocated for the legislation and the bill makes perfect sense. Given the recent behavior of Republicans these last two years in congress, McConnell's bill makes perfect sense. Two, it clearly demonstrates the extraordinary pettiness and silliness of the Republican position on the fiscal cliff.
That really is funny. Introducing a bill for a vote and within hours filibuster it. I have never in my 57 years ever seen something like that. While it is certainly funny it is at the same time very sad and troubling; it clearly demonstrates an inability to effectively govern.
As Senator McCaskill said after witnessing the event, “WHIPLASH”!
Boehner may be back Monday 17 Dec but don´t expect much in the five day week ending Friday 21 Dec except perhaps a little can kicking as then much of Congress goes home for Christmass thru New Year.http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-13/obama-meeting-boehner-at-white-house-today-for-budget-talks-1-.html said:
See two Bloomberg writers tell why Republicans don´t want to give anything on higher taxes on the rich at: http://www.bloomberg.com/video/repu...-to-move-on-taxes-t~ifySeBQmeRbtFwRJGR1w.html
Despite polls showing Republicans will get most of the blame for failure.
IMHO, It is much like Republican conventions - The right wing wins so Republicans can lose in the end.
Well the fiscal cliff is almost here, 12 days remain and there is still no agreement. Tomorrow Speaker Boehner is promising a vote on his “Plan B”, whatever the hell that is. Where is all the transparency they were demanding back when the Democrats controlled the House? And it is not readily apparent that Boehner will be able to get his Plan B passed through the House, especially since only Boehner and his lieutenants know what is in his Plan B. Judging from Boehner’s comments today, Boehner seems to be unable to get his caucus to come to a reasonable fiscal cliff agreement which means we are headed over the cliff. Boehner needs to grow some balls and demonstrate some leadership. If Boehner thinks he can punt and bury his head in the sand with his Plan B, then he is sorely mistaken. Burying his head in the sand and throwing up chaff is not going to make the fiscal cliff issue go away.
I have news for Boehner, it only gets worse for him and his fellow Republicans if they are not able to come to an agreement and avoid the Fiscal Cliff. This is something Boehner and his Republicans cannot run away from. They need to man up and start acting like reasonable and responsible adults. They owe it to the nation.
I have news for Boehner, it only gets worse for him and his fellow Republicans if they are not able to come to an agreement and avoid the Fiscal Cliff. This is something Boehner and his Republicans cannot run away from. They need to man up and start acting like reasonable and responsible adults. They owe it to the nation.
They were not ignored, they were actively rejected, by the Republican Party.
Many Democrats attempted to address the issues. The Republican Party prevented any useful action on them.buddha said:
Not a single far left extremist had anything to do with that, and no one attempting to score points with anyone on the left was involved in any brinkmanship. Not even the generally rightwing bulk of the Democratic Party engaged in that stupidity - that was Republican Party doing and Republican Congressional behavior, entirely.
There's only one side to this "dysfunctional" aspect: the Republican Party and its Media, Congressional, Executive,and Judicial members. This horrible, slapstick mess is their show, their doing, the fruits of their labors since Reagan.
Obama bears as much of the blame as the Republicans. In the previous debt ceiling debate you could lay more of the blame (but certainly not all of it) on the Republicans; but this time around it's Obama that has been intransigent.
NOW is it nose dive time! :xctd:
This entire problem has been created by the republicans! The debt is a imaginary problem we could go up to 200% GDP debt and still be afloat (japan) during a time of economic recession we should be focused on the economy not national debt! We can focus on paying off the debt when we have the money to pay the debt off with! Right now reducing the debt by spending cuts and tax hikes will only hurt the already fragile economy.
He bears none of the blame. The entire problem of the debt, and the blocking of every single attempt to alleviate it for many years now, has been entirely the creation of the Congressional, Executive, Judicial, and media branches of the Republican Party.madanthony said:
A failure of governance on a scale comparable with Spain in the early Americas, Europe leading into WWII, other great disasters of history. It really is something. Own it.
Well that is what Republicans want people to believe. And Boehner hopes his Plan B - whatever the hell it is - will help him and his fellow Republicans blame the fiscal cliff failure on President Obama. But unfortunately for Republicans, most people still have at least half a brain. So that dog won’t hunt. I am sure both parties will get blamed for falling off the cliff. But Obama has been trying for months now to get the Republicans move on this issue and they have steadfastly refused. And now with 12 days before the cliff, Boehner offers to raise income tax rates on a fraction of one percent of the population. And as I understand it, Boehner’s Plan B would also raise taxes on the middle classes (i.e. payroll taxes). President Obama has been steadfast in his insistence that taxes on the middle class not rise in order to foment job growth.
The problem is the nation needs to demonstrate that it is still able to effectively govern, and it needs to substantially reduce its deficit spending. Boehner’s Plan B doesn’t demonstrate governing ability nor does it make sufficient reductions in the nation’s deficits. In order to attain the reductions need, more revenue is needed. And Boehner seems to be using that ever famous magical mystical Republican math when it comes to calculating spending reductions.
Republicans are clearly demonstrating their hypocrisy here. A few years ago when Democrats controlled the House, they wanted public disclosure time for each and every bill. Boehner and his Republicans seemed to have forgotten all that demagoguery. Because Boehner is promising to have Republicans pass a bill no one has seen outside Boehner’s inner circle.
in what fucked up universe is this the case. I'm sorry but obama going enough is enough its time for ya'll to budge is not being instansigent but standing up for why the electorate voted for him. i don't understand your conceit that the party that won the election has a responsibility to let the losing party, whose policies have been widely rejected, to set policy.
Well so much for Boehner’s Plan B. Boehner was not able to muster enough support within his own caucus to get it passed. So now Republicans are leaving town on vacation yet again with the nation’s finances on the brink of an economic cliff, the very cliff they created for themselves.
Boehner said it is time for the Senate to act. Well the Senate has already acted. The Senate has already passed a fiscal cliff bill. It sounds like Boehner needs to take out that pocket Constitution and read about the House he leads and learn about his responsibilities. We have bicameral congress. The House, the body Boehner leads is responsible for originating fiscal legislation.
Boehner said it is time for the Senate to act. Well the Senate has already acted. The Senate has already passed a fiscal cliff bill. It sounds like Boehner needs to take out that pocket Constitution and read about the House he leads and learn about his responsibilities. We have bicameral congress. The House, the body Boehner leads is responsible for originating fiscal legislation.
On but its the presidents fault that republicans can't even compromise amongst themselves!