Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Evolution v Intelligent Design; Should we really teach evolution?
- Thread starter Norsefire
- Start date
are you fudging?
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Fudging ?
If you think ID is a theory, what is it a theory of?
And what is it based on, how scientific a theory is it?
I'd say teach ID, but as a theory of creationism, because it isn't a scientific theory; Darwinism, though incomplete (like most theories are) is at least based on evidence and experiment, it predicts outcomes, it explains a whole lot. ID is more wishful thinking, sort of an alternative, non-sciencey, vague X-files type idea ("they" must be responsible).
And what is it based on, how scientific a theory is it?
I'd say teach ID, but as a theory of creationism, because it isn't a scientific theory; Darwinism, though incomplete (like most theories are) is at least based on evidence and experiment, it predicts outcomes, it explains a whole lot. ID is more wishful thinking, sort of an alternative, non-sciencey, vague X-files type idea ("they" must be responsible).
I say; teach physical biology, chemistry, physics, astronomy, genetics, etc.
Teach the platforms of scientific reason and let the parents decide.
There can be two experts in the same field who will disagree, so stop telling our kids one way or another. If they go off to college they'll find out one to be true or the other.
it's based on the observational evidence of irreducible complexity and some other things. it's also based on religious scriptures. religions "predicted" ID and irreducible complexity.
it can be hard to "teach" ID because ID just says "ID did it". it's best to just teach religions. they teach religion in my country, because nobody believes in anything here anyway. i've heard that it's not allowed to teach religion in USA... that's pretty weird.
ID is true, but it's a strange theory for many people. students would laugh if it would be taught in schools, unless it was taught to them since childhood.
it's best to wait until we get some more evidence for the theory, so that there's actually something to teach. but we probably won't get much evidence for it until we evolve clairvoyance and astral travel so that we can access the akashic records.
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There's your starting error: Organisms don't "transform" into anything. A frog doesn't hop around and then magically turn into a hippo one day, nor would it give birth to a hippo.
Your quote shows the redundancy in explaining anything to you here - it is a vast topic for which the only help for you is going to be years of study in many different fields of science.
Do note that nobody here cares whether you believe in gods, aliens or whatever else or consider them possibilities. That is your right and we all hope you're happy. That does not however give reason for you to go on a public forum spreading such astounding ignorance concerning evolution and then expecting everyone else to be your educator.
However, for the sake of the topic it really wouldn't matter. You've stated that ID should be taught in science class. All you need to do now is show that ID is science. Put your naive ideas of evolution to one side for a moment and show us how ID is science.
ID is creationism.
Dover Trial
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It often doesn't, but to answer your question:
Here
Your questions on abiogenesis are a different matter. I'll be happy to take them up in another thread.
You weren't taught about evolution, that much is crystal clear. You were "taught" to accept creationism without question, which you've also made clear, hence it's little wonder why you would support ID and make silly assertions about evolution.
Evolution is like a God with an IQ of 1. It only has to be a tiny bit better than total randomness for complexity to accumulate. It does this when random changes, caused by errors in copying, lead to being a little bit better adapted in the environment, meaning the copy with "error" will increase in numbers compared to the copy without the error. This goes on for billions of years until we get rather startling results. This theory is reflected in the fossil record to such a degree that it is considered a fact. No mathematical proof is required.
However ID is still a real possibility.
I am not talking about Creationism. Creationism is nonsense. ID is different because it doesn't make specifications, but rather it is a broader idea which isn't unreasonable.
I'd say homo sapiens compared to austrolopithicus are extremely different
By that same note, then string theory isn't science. It's theoretical. It doesn't have physical evidence.
No, it isn't.
The difference being, Creationism asserts clearly the nature, process, intent, ability, identity, etc, of the higher life and specifcally how earth came to be.
ID only states that it is possible higher forms of life either created or guided our development. That is not an unreasonable idea. It isn't science, but the idea makes sense.
However I'm dealing more with the complexity of Humans; it's very possible our development was guided, our evolution, was guided.
The idea that our evolution out of all others, was guided, is not supported by any evidence. We did experience a series of random events such a climate change and isolation in the Great Rift Valley of Africa that stimulated intelligence, something that happened to other species as well. Neanderthals were apparently intelligent, but they died out. There were at least dozens of species of Homo that did not survive. We were not especially unique.
I know it's not supported by evidence, but the supposition isn't irrational or illogical. It makes sense. It's a real possibility. And also, what evidence did you have in mind of figuring out if our evolution was guided?
It's up to you to figure out how our evolution could be shown to be guided by an intelligent entity that can hide it's existence, apart from all the millions of factors that conspire to guide the evolution of all other living things. Have you found something out of place, like a bullet or laser beam cut in an ancient Homo fossil? Something that could not have occurred naturally? Only when all reasonable natural explanations have been ruled out could one consider your wild speculation about supernaturally guided evolution. Lots of things are possible, maybe we evolved on Mars and moved to Earth due to climate change, but without any reason to think so, it's completely unnecessary (Occam's Razor).
Norse, ID is as strong a theory for the origin of species as me saying the moon was once a big ball of cheese. You can't prove me wrong and I can't prove I'm right. Pointless!!
Evolution has a mountain if evidence to support it, why don't you read some books on the subject?
kmguru
Staff member
There is really nothing wrong in thinking intelligent design...if you consider humans are intelligent. If evolution created intelligent specis, there is no reason why Universe would not have evolved to be intelligent and thus created humans....
If that is the case...then you are pushing back the evolution to a larger scale way back...
And that could be the real truth...proving it will be very difficult though....with our puny minds...
I don't see it as a relevant response to my earlier statement:
There's your starting error: Organisms don't "transform" into anything. A frog doesn't hop around and then magically turn into a hippo one day, nor would it give birth to a hippo.
Organisms still don't 'transform' into anything.
Perhaps you didn't understand the request. I shall provide it once more:
You've stated that ID should be taught in science class. All you need to do now is show that ID is science.
Can you do that? Yes/no? I'll take it as a "no" given your later statement concerning ID that "It isn't science". As it isn't science, there is absolutely no place in demanding it be taught in science class. Period.
Yes, it is - as shown beyond dispute in the Dover trial.
Frankly I can see what your agenda is. It certainly isn't to learn and progress but to espouse that what you believe is logical and rational and just like everything else. You can believe so - I wont stand in your way - but if you want to present the notion here you're really going to have your work cut out for you.
Regards,
So, you believe in evolution. Do you understand evolution?
Why would think the process of evolution has a beginning?