Evidence that God is real

[Michael 345]

But you said that wasn't death, because hypothermia is sometimes reversible.

I never said such thing

The female revived from a extremely low temperature was not dead and was able to be returned to normal by very aggressive treatment

Another hint - frozen is not the same as hypothermia

 

[Write4U]

At this time, the Big Bang, all the matter in the universe, would have been on top of itself. The density would have been infinite. It would have been what is called, a singularity. At a singularity, all the laws of physics would have broken down. This means that the state of the universe, after the Big Bang, will not depend on anything that may have happened before, because the deterministic laws that govern the universe will break down in the Big Bang. The universe will evolve from the Big Bang, completely independently of what it was like before. Even the amount of matter in the universe, can be different to what it was before the Big Bang, as the Law of Conservation of Matter, will break down at the Big Bang. ...

Hawking

Thank you. Seems the BB occurred because the laws of physics were not pertinent to the conditions of the singularity. Maybe the BB occurred because there were no laws of physics.
Which would explain FTL inflation during the inflationary epoch.

Mathematical/Physical laws emerged after the BB along with spacetime and matter, in a state of free chaos rather than stifling infinite density before the inflationary epoch.

Question; If laws of physics were present before the BB, how did we get all those laws back after the BB? The laws of physics are very much in force today, aren't they?

 

[Beer w/Straw]

Yes.

Example?

 

[Write4U]

Question; If laws of physics were present before the BB, how did we get all those laws back after the BB? The laws of physics are very much in force today, aren't they?

Because they exist in the abstract as mathematical potentials (patterns) in the spacetime fabric (geometry) itself.......

 

[Sarkus]

Maybe the BB occurred because there were no laws of physics.
Which would explain FTL inflation during the inflationary epoch.

Eh? How does the idea of there being no laws of physics when the BB occurred help explain the notion of FTL expansion during the inflationary epoch, when there were laws of physics? And how does it (the lack of physics when the BB occurred) explain FTL expansion now?

Mathematical/Physical laws emerged after the BB along with spacetime and matter, in a state of free chaos rather than stifling infinite density before the inflationary epoch.

This sentence seems ambiguous.... Are you saying that the laws emerged after the inflationary epoch? Are you saying that the laws differed before the inflationary epoch? And how do laws emerge in a state of "free chaos"?

Question; If laws of physics were present before the BB, how did we get all those laws back after the BB? The laws of physics are very much in force today, aren't they?

If time began at the BB, it is surely meaningless to talk about "before" the BB?

 

[Musika]

Example?

Someone whose activities are not bent out of shape by the mere presence of God .... much like someone whose activities are not bent out of shape by the mere presence of flashing blue lights.

 

[iceaura]

Someone whose activities are not bent out of shape by the mere presence of God .... much like someone whose activities are not bent out of shape by the mere presence of flashing blue lights.

Threats, disparagements, insults, pivots, innuendos - - - no evidence from the oA theists.
And there never will be. That's not why they post here.

Their entire agenda amounts to an ad hominem argument within the broader political and social context of the US and Western culture generally. ( A real one, matching the actual meaning and usage of "ad hominem", rather than their own deceptive and dishonest use of that term).

And since their cause is good, they feel justified in the dishonesty and bad faith of their disparagements and attacks. Any rhetorical tactic is ok by them, since the ethics of intellectual debate and foundations of reason are part of what they are attacking.

 

[Goldtop]

Eh? How does the idea of there being no laws of physics when the BB occurred help explain the notion of FTL expansion during the inflationary epoch, when there were laws of physics? And how does it (the lack of physics when the BB occurred) explain FTL expansion now?

My understanding is that the BB introduced Space, which can travel faster than the speed of light, that the matter itself was not traveling faster than light through space but instead was carried along with space.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

Someone whose activities are not bent out of shape by the mere presence of God .... much like someone whose activities are not bent out of shape by the mere presence of flashing blue lights.

Erm, since I 'm not dead (I think, therefore, I ain't) the closest example of God's existence comes to me when I'm unconscious?

 

[Musika]

Erm, since I 'm not dead (I think, therefore, I ain't) the closest example of God's existence comes to me when I'm unconscious?

Then why talk of a "political context"?

 

[Sarkus]

My understanding is that the BB introduced Space, which can travel faster than the speed of light, that the matter itself was not traveling faster than light through space but instead was carried along with space.

My understanding is that space is expanding, not travelling, and hence objects appear to accelerate away from us... the further away they are form us the faster they seem to be moving away.

However, my point to write4U was that he seemed to imply that there being no laws of physics prior to the BB helps explain FTL acceleration during the inflationary epoch. During the inflationary epoch there were laws of physics. I'm not sure how not having laws of physics prior to the BB helps explain anything at all, let alone the apparent FTL expansion during the inflationary epoch.
I'm sure it's just muddled wording on his part, and/or misunderstanding on my part of what he is trying to convey.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

Then why talk of a "political context"?

So, God cannot exist outside a political context unless you're unconscious or dead.

 

[Musika]

So, God cannot exist outside a political context unless you're unconscious or dead.

If you have to be dead or unconscious to deal with the political angle of a situation, most people would say that is your problem ... and, furthermore, that it would represent quite an extreme.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

If you have to be dead or unconscious to deal with the political angle of a situation, most people would say that is your problem ... and, furthermore, that it would represent quite an extreme.

So, you can't see a God outside a political context?

Has religion ever been outside politics?

 

[Musika]

So, you can't see a God outside a political context?

I have been saying the opposite.
I assume you can see flashing blue lights without desiring to hide your crowbar (what to speak of being dead or unconscious in order to avoid the long arm of the law).

Has religion ever been outside politics?

And the politics of this world represents what exactly? A type of honour amongst thieves?

 

[Beer w/Straw]

I have been saying the opposite.
I assume you can see flashing blue lights without desiring to hide your crowbar (what to speak of being dead or unconscious in order to avoid the long arm of the law).


And the politics of this world represents what exactly? A type of honour amongst thieves?

Let's cut this short.

I'm an evil person because I cannot perceive God.

 

[Write4U]

Eh? How does the idea of there being no laws of physics when the BB occurred help explain the notion of FTL expansion during the inflationary epoch, when there were laws of physics? And how does it (the lack of physics when the BB occurred) explain FTL expansion now?

No physics, no laws of physics, no restrictions, only permissions, including FTL.

IMO, the BB was a "singular" event. I would hazard a guess that the BB was a single mega-quantum event where everything happened all at once and all at the same time. Chronology (time) and physical laws emerged after the event along with the emergence of matter and physical interactions.

This sentence seems ambiguous.... Are you saying that the laws emerged after the inflationary epoch? Are you saying that the laws differed before the inflationary epoch?

Well, I am simply going by the evidence. After the BB, as spacetime inflated and cooled, laws of physics emerged along with matter from potential state to being expressed as physical permissions and restrictions.

And how do laws emerge in a state of "free chaos"?

The Laws of Chaos!

Chaos theory is a branch of mathematics focusing on the behavior of dynamical systems that are highly sensitive to initial conditions. 'Chaos' is an interdisciplinary theory stating that within the apparent randomness of chaotic complex systems, there are underlying patterns, constant feedback loops, repetition, self-similarity, fractals, self-organization, and reliance on programming at the initial point known as sensitive dependence on initial conditions.
The butterfly effect describes how a small change in one state of a deterministic nonlinear system can result in large differences in a later state, e.g. a butterfly flapping its wings in Brazil can cause a hurricane in Texas

Emergent physical phenomena.

If time began at the BB, it is surely meaningless to talk about "before" the BB?

Yes, IMO, what happened before the BB has no bearing on our reality at all. It would be interesting to form a model, but it would be useless as those conditions no longer exist or will ever exist again.. Our world did not start until spacetime became geometrically measurable and particles acquired mass, as soon as temperature "allowed" (a physical law invoked by cooling plasma).

The rest is just history.

 

[Write4U]

During the inflationary epoch there were laws of physics.

Well yes, but only those laws which were directly invoked by the inflationary epoch.
For instance, the law of exponential function was probably non-existent before the BB. There was only a singularity and the law of gravity, nothing was expanding , yet.

With the event of the BB the universe started inflating (expanding) in accordance with the law of "exponential function".

The laws of physics did not emerge until matter started appearing.

Laws of physics are abstractions, no? If not invoked by some form of change, they exist only in pure potential form as "that which may become reality".

P.S. Sarkus, thank you for your patience and allowing me to explain further when my posts lack clarity.

 

[origin]

Well yes, but only those laws which were directly invoked by the BB.
For instance, the law of "exponential function" was probably non-existent before the BB. There was only a singularity.

Are you trying to be funny or is it just an accident?

 

[spidergoat]

I think the more important point was that absence of an explanation doesn't give any explanation equal credibility.