Evidence that God is real

Discussion in 'Religion' started by James R, Aug 31, 2018.

  1. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I think she does.
    Especially when I go toward the treats draw.

    jan.
     
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  3. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Well, my dogs never took me for a sexual object, but a respected member of their pack. Watch these excellent examples of inter-specie non-sexual love.

    It is not a location. Love is a pervasive experiential emotion.
    Yes. maybe that's why you crave the love of God. You cannot find it in anyone else...

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    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
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  5. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Adapted joke:
    Two Christians and an atheist scientist have died.
    All three are facing God, wanting to know what they believe in.
    The first Christian says:
    "I believe in discipline, training and loyalty to my master".
    God says, "Good, you may sit on my right side".

    The second Christian says:
    "I believe in the love, care and protection of my master".
    God says "Good, you may sit on my left side".

    God turns to the atheist scientist and asks him what he believes in.
    The scientists responds:
    "I believe you are sitting in my seat".
     
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  7. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry, there is just no logical evidence of any kind that God exists. The fact we exist is not evidence for the existence of a god. This is because god is an illogical concept and any cited evidence has been disproven by science, not for the purpose of disproving God, but for proving fact.
     
  8. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Nothing of the sort has been unproven by science.
    It's all in your head.

    jan.
     
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  9. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    ?? A great many of those "miracles" have been shown to be ordinary events by science.

    Rivers of blood? Red tides are now well understood.
    Coming back to life? We can now bring someone back from the dead who has been dead for hours.
    Eclipses as God blotting out the Sun? Just the Moon. Eclipses are now well understood.

    Your belief is all in your head. Here in the real world, miracles have prosaic explanations. No "miracle" has ever been demonstrated to be impossible without the intervention of God.
     
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  10. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Yet you don't accept accounts of the conscious awareness, while dead.

    If you think about it, the miracle is not God blotting out the sun, but the sun itself.
    The miracle isn't bringing people back to life, as it is life itself.
    God does, as God Wills. This whole manifestation is a miracle.

    Those miracles occur because of the miracle of the manifestation.
    We can debate those miracles till the cows come home, they don't come close to the real miracle, and our conscious awareness of it.
    What does science have to say about this miracle? We're working on it.
    That's not just in my head. It's in your head too.

    jan.
     
  11. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    I have no problems with accounts of awareness while clinically dead, especially in people whose brains are still functioning.
    Except now we know that its light comes from nuclear fusion, not the power of God.

    Now, if you want to claim "but thinking that the Sun is a miracle of God makes me feel better about my belief!" no problem at all. It is just not evidence that God exists, since we know that suns can form without any divine assistance.
    Except now we know that life is powered by the Krebs cycle, not the power of God.

    Again, if you want to claim "but thinking that life goes on through a miracle of God makes me feel better about my belief!" no problem at all. It is just not evidence that God exists, since we know that we don't need God to power life.
    You can if you want. Scientists don't have to. They're not miracles.

    Again, don't fall prey to the classic argument from ignorance - "I don't understand the Krebs cycle, therefore life is a miracle that God did."
    Lots of things in your head have been proven wrong, so I'll take your guesses as to what is in my head with a grain of salt.
     
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    IMO, the only field where theism could possibly make a claim is pre-BB. After the BB, the existence of a god is superfluous, everything happens via physical determinism.

    A manifestation of a true miracle is one that cannot be explained by science.

    Jan, do you have a single example of a miracle (manifestation) which did not follow the laws of physics?
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
  13. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    You quoted me: "Anything. Footprints, fingerprints, height, weight, photographs, spectrographs, etc. That's what evidence is."

    Those are some things that come under "anything". If you have anything else in the vicinity, feel free to put it up for consideration.
     
  14. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    No we can't

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  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    ==============
    Woman comes back to life after being dead for 17 hours
    A 59-year-old American woman who was presumed dead after her heart stopped and she was taken off life support came back to life, stunning her doctors and family.

    By Catherine Elsworth in Los Angeles
    5:28PM BST 26 May 2008


    After Velma Thomas, from Nitro, West Virginia, went into cardiac arrest at home, medics managed to establish a faint pulse after eight minutes of CPR. But at hospital, her heart stopped twice more and she was placed on life support.

    For more than 17 hours doctors failed to detect any brain activity, despite extensive attempts to revive her, including pioneering treatment to lower her body's temperature in a bid to stimulate the brain.

    Family members braced themselves for the worst. Tim Thomas, Velma's son, said he and two dozen relatives and friends gathered at the hospital and “prayed and prayed and prayed” before starting to accept Mrs Thomas would not survive. . . .

    But as they began making funeral arrangements, Mr Thomas was contacted by the hospital and told that soon after being taken off life support, his mother had come back to life. Mrs Thomas had begun moving her limbs when suddenly her heart re-started, a nurse said.
    ==============
    In 1999, a Swedish medical student named Anna Bagenholm lost control while skiing and landed head first on a thin patch of ice covering a mountain stream. The surface gave way and she was pulled into the freezing current below; when her friends caught up with her minutes later, only her skis and ankles were visible above an 8-inch layer of ice.
    Bagenholm found an air pocket and struggled beneath the ice for 40 minutes as her friends tried to dislodge her. Then her heart stopped beating and she was still. Forty minutes after that, a rescue team arrived, cut her out of the ice and administered CPR as they helicoptered her to a hospital. At 10:15 p.m., three hours and 55 minutes after her fall, her first heartbeat was recorded. Since then, she has made a nearly full recovery. Bagenholm was the very definition of clinically dead: Her circulatory and respiratory systems had gone quiet for just over three hours before she was brought back to life.
    ================
    Analia Bouter was pregnant with her fifth child when she went into labor 12 weeks early. After the birth was completed, doctors told her that the child she had delivered was stillborn, and Bouter and her husband were sent home with a death certificate for the child. They decided to return 12 hours later to see the girl’s body, which was being kept in a refrigerated drawer in the morgue. The baby had been seen by obstetricians, gynecologists, and even a neonatologist, and all of them reached the conclusion that she was dead. But when they opened the drawer, the baby began crying, and they realized their daughter was alive. The girl was named Luz Miraglos (Miracles of Light) and the latest reports say that she has grown stronger and healthier.
    ===================
    In June of 2011, doctors in Gunma University Graduate School of Medicine in Japan successfully revived a 32-year old woman who had been dead for at least 8 hours. She walked out of the hospital without organ or brain damage.
    ====================
     
  16. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Hint

    Failure to detect life is not equal to dead

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  17. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed. Which is why I gave you several examples of people who were clinically dead.
     
  18. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Further hint

    Clinically dead is not the same as dead

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  19. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Aside.

    Well, let's ask a question: Is there any reason to say God "Is" outside of any political context?

    The answer would be no.
     
  20. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    Depends who is asking.
     
  21. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    So, God "Is" not for everybody?
     
  22. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    Depends how over-shadowed they are by the "politics" of God's position.
     
  23. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Well, if God "Is" I'd like to know it.
     

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