Einstein view of time

Michael 345 said:
Again with the confusion of TIME with AGE (sorry)

:)
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I don't think the argument changes with that minor distinction between a measurement of "age" (result of duration) and a measurement of "duration" (result of ageing).
Both measurement apply to the continued existence of a physical object or condition.

You say the phenomenon we call age is the emergent accumulation of a sequence of "nows" .
I say the phenomenon we call time is the emergent accumulated duration of the sequence of "nows".
Is there a substantial difference? :)
 
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QuarkHead said:
Michael - endlessly repeating the same assertion does not make it true. You need a coherent argument, which you haven't given us.

Enjoy your stay in the institution (just kidding!)
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So you assert TIME does exist

Fair enough

Many people assert god exists but never produce evidence

Those who say god does not exist don't have evidence of a non existent god BECAUSE GOD DOES NOT EXIST

The Invention of Time and Space is a great book which lays out the reasons time does not exist far better than my puny effort to explain the book

However try thinking about the properties of TIME and list them

After all everything which exists has properties

The closest people come to giving TIME a property is called AGE

Nobody has ever seen TIME, weighed TIME

Nobody knows how long time is, or how tall, or deep, its frequency, colour, melting point, taste, smell

Nobody has dissected time to examine what lies inside

Nobody has seen a lump of TIME age like everything which EXIST ages

Could be more but my coffee is 4 hours away, perhaps I will think of more then

You can help keep me from the institution and off the medication (kidding) if you can provide any property of your existant TIME (not kidding)

Please it does not have to be exotic property

Length, colour, smell although the atomic weight would be nice and how many electrons does it have would be nectar to this poor delusional Minion :)

:)
 
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Write4U said:
I don't think the argument changes with that minor distinction between a measurement of "age" and a measurement of "duration".
You say the phenomenon we call age is the emergent accumulation of a sequence of nows .
I say the phenomenon we call time is the emergent accumulated duration of the sequence of "nows". Is there a dfference? :)
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5am - coffee - 4 hours away - will get back to you on that :)

:)

PS before breakfast here - where does TIME fit into the Periodic Table?

:)
 
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Write4U said:
The reason no definition of time exists is the fact that time does not (cannot) exist independent of another causal event. It can only become measurable as an emergent measurable bi-product of a sequential action. (2 + 2 = 4 + 3 seconds).
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We can define and understand time without needing to refer to space. What we can not do is measure time without space. And I do not mean distance, but the duration of a movement.
 
Time is a property and refers to the duration of things. Time flows continuously, without stopping. It is irreversible.
 
Asexperia said:
Time is a property and refers to the duration of things. Time flows continuously, without stopping. It is irreversible.
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What you are saying is that time has no properties in and of itself, but is always dependent on the duration of things. Without duration, no time.
 
Write4U said:
What you are saying is that time has no properties in and of itself, but is always dependent on the duration of things. Without duration, no time.
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I would put it more if something in and of itself has no properties then it is non existent

If us puny Minions give the duration (birth to death?) of something a name that something does not magically exist, as we well know from unicorns

EDIT

The name is known as a concept, a idea in the brain, with no physicality, hence non existent

Coffee just kicked in

:)
 
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Michael 345 said:
I would put it more if something in and of itself has no properties then it is non existent

If us puny Minions give the duration (birth to death?) of something a name that something does not magically exist, as we well know from unicorns

The name is known as a concept, a idea in the brain, with no physicality, hence non existent

Coffee just kicked in :)
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I agree, time has no properties in and of itself. It is always the result of measurement of something else.
 
Michael 345 said:
Still not there
Things which do not exist cannot be measured :)
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I agree completely.
That's why without some chronological physical change to measure, time does not exist at all.
How does that differ from your perspective? B-)
 
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Write4U said:
I agree completely.
That's why without some chronological physical change to measure, time does not exist at all.
How does that differ from your perspective?
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Oh I hate to say this

Hint

A is not T

:)
 
Michael 345 said:
Oh I hate to say this

Hint

A is not T

:)
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Arbitrary Time increments is the measurement by which we measure Age. The same as arbitrary Metric increments are a measurment of Distance.

There is no unit of Age, there are Time units, human symbolic representations of temporal increments from beginning to end of duration.
Same as there is no unit of Distance, there are Metric units, human symbolic representations of spatial increments between beginning and end of travel.

Is space-time the same a space-age? Where would be the distinction?
 
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Write4U said:
Arbitrary Time increments is the measurement by which we measure Age. The same as arbitrary Metric increments are a measurment of Distance.
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Stuff ages (undergoes change)

Time lapse photography can show gross changes

Sure arbitrary measurement is used for measurement but there is a something there to measure

A house, a road, something, even if only objects at either end, say Earth - Moon

There is nothing TIME measures

:)
 
Michael 345 said:
There is nothing TIME measures
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Yes it does it measures temporal distances, just as Metrics measure spatial distances.

But you also cannot measure distance with distance. Distance, the same as Time, are relative measurements from a specific frame of reference. Neither is measurable apart from a relative frame of reference.
 
Write4U said:
Yes it does it measures temporal distances, just as Metrics measure spatial distances.

But you also cannot measure distance with distance. Distance, the same as Time, are relative measurements from a specific frame of reference. Neither is measurable apart from a relative frame of reference.
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Temporal distance

Temporal distance refers to distance in time. Something that is temporally near is something that is near in time, whereas something that is temporally distant is far in time

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construal_level_theory

So what makes the concept TEMPORAL DISTANCE (idea) exist in reality?

I sense perhaps we don't have a clear understanding what each requires of something (anything) to exist

For me physicality and detectability

Clocks do not detect time (I am preempting such a reply) they measure arbitrary units of AGE (change)

Thoughts do not exist (but lets sort out time first :))

Afternoon coffee moment here at the only moment of reality which EXIST, NOW :)

:)
 
Michael 345 said:
Clocks do not detect time (I am preempting such a reply) they measure arbitrary units of AGE (change)
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I agree, on both counts. But there is the truth that according to QM things cannot happen in the same place at the same time. AFAIK, that is a fundamental principle of QM.

Therefore, change of age, or duration of change, in a chronological order of unfolding patterns occupying ever changing dynamical locations of spacetime coordinates. This dynamical change cannot be separated from an associated duration from the beginning to the end of the chronology. The very demand for dynamical change in spatial coordinates automatically creates a demand for an associated temporal duration of dynamical quantum actions.

The universe does not know any of this, man does. But then the universe does not need to know anything. It only needs to follow transcendent dynamical deterministic mathematical quantum sequences (chronologies) which demands 4 abstract geometric objects, 3 Spatial + 1 Temporal dimension, which are required minimums for cause and effect to take place. Without any of these guiding mathematical excellences, reality as we know it could not exist in any form except as it unfolds with emerging physical patterns at sets of spacetime coordinates, or to the universe, points, each with a specific mathematical value.

The universe does not know any of this. It is a mathematical construct without a brain.
But the 3 spatial and 1 temporal universal dimensions allow only very specific deterministic actions and prohibit all other indeterministic actions.

Outside the universe this 4D geometry does not exist. Hence no coordinates of any kind. Infinity is unmeasurable.
 
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Write4U said:
I agree, on both counts. But there is the truth that according to QM things cannot happen in the same place at the same time. AFAIK, that is a fundamental principle of QM.

Therefore, change of age, or duration of change, in a chronological order of unfolding patterns occupying ever changing dynamical locations of spacetime coordinates. This dynamical change cannot be separated from an associated duration from the beginning to the end of the chronology. The very demand for dynamical change in spatial coordinates automatically creates a demand for an associated temporal duration of dynamical quantum actions.

The universe does not know any of this, man does. But then the universe does not need to know anything. It only needs to follow transcendent dynamical deterministic mathematical quantum sequences (chronologies) which demands 4 abstract geometric objects, 3 Spatial + 1 Temporal dimension, which are required minimums for cause and effect to take place. Without any of these guiding mathematical excellences, reality as we know it could not exist in any form except as it unfolds with emerging physical patterns at sets of spacetime coordinates, or to the universe, points, each with a specific mathematical value.

The universe does not know any of this. It is a mathematical construct without a brain.
But the 3 spatial and 1 temporal universal dimensions allow only very specific deterministic actions and prohibit all other indeterministic actions.

Outside the universe this 4D geometry does not exist. Hence no coordinates of any kind. Infinity is unmeasurable.
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Starting to loose me

3 neuron brain gone on holiday

Me not enough coffee

Truce until Huey Dewey and Louie return

Cheers

:)
 
Please do not post pseudoscience to our Science subforums.
I've defined spacetime logically using four axioms. See: Constructing Time form an Axiom at Pseudoscience of this forum.
 
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