does evolution exsist

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matthew809 said:
You have been conditioned to believe that:
1) conspiracies can't exist
2) only nut jobs believe in conspiracies

Ask yourself why the word "conspiracy" has such a negative connotation to you.
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It is True . I have been Conspiring against all of you for a long Time and my world domination is starting to bare fruit. Common People of the world Stand tall and Be counted . We will win the Day . Yeah !!! Brake open the vaults of information Yeah!!!
 
Me-Ki-Gal said:
I do not eat green eggs and ham. God could very well be real, but dude Evolution is real . And the earth is a lot older than you think. I don't mean Micro Evolution either, but full blown Evolution, How can you dispute it when we can witness the birth of new stars in the universe. How can you dispute it when you realize the light coming from distant stars is 100s of light years away. Man has always had a problem of thinking he is the center of every thing, Maybe that is why you can't let go of the old thought of thinking we are special . Oh yeah I forgot We are Special. The Earths Greatest Mystery. We can think for our selves.
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You see, I could easily claim that this guy is part of the conspiracy.... sent here to distract from the truth by blabbering nonsense as a response to my post. But I didn't go there.

Give me credit for that at least.
 
matthew809 said:
You have been conditioned to believe that:
1) conspiracies can't exist
2) only nut jobs believe in conspiracies
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You made an assumption. An incorrect and an insulting one. Conspiracies do exist. You'd have to be a "nut job" not to realize that. I am not so naive that I do not believe that groups of people in positions of power and influence sometimes conspire to ensure certain outcomes. It happens all the time.

Ask yourself why the word "conspiracy" has such a negative connotation to you.
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The answer to that one is easy. Because outlandish conspiracy theories are so often touted by paranoid and/or psychologically unstable people. So you can blame them for the connotation. But additionally because almost all of these outlandish conspiracies can be falsified with about 5 minutes of research and a little bit of common sense.

Believing that everything is a conspiracy is often an excuse to do nothing. If everything is controlled by people more powerful than you, why would you try? Do you like feeling impotent?
 
Rav said:
You made an assumption. An incorrect and an insulting one. Conspiracies do exist. You'd have to be a "nut job" not to realize that. I am not so naive that I do not believe that groups of people in positions of power and influence sometimes conspire to ensure certain outcomes. It happens all the time.
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I'm sorry for including you in my accusation...

Do you believe that conspiracy can infiltrate the realm of science as well?

Rav said:
The answer to that one is easy. Because outlandish conspiracy theories are so often touted by paranoid and/or psychologically unstable people.
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"Outlandish", "paranoid", "psychologically unstable"... these are typical buzzwords used to discredit any attempt to suggest conspiracy as a possibility. Why is there a need to use these words if the truth in on your side???
 
matthew809 said:
Do you believe that conspiracy can infiltrate the realm of science as well?
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To what end? I mean, this would imply someone is deliberately trying to hide the "truth". What advantage would this give them?

Not to mention that the evolution "conspiracy" is bearing a lot of fruit in the field of medicine.
 
matthew809 said:
Do you believe that conspiracy can infiltrate the realm of science as well?
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Conspiracies are possible no matter what you are talking about. But a lie becomes harder and harder to maintain the more people are involved in it. I don't know exactly how many practicing evolutionary biologists there are in the world, but I am guessing (based on a quick google of membership numbers of related societies and numbers of attendees at conferences) that there are at least thousands worldwide. This estimate does not include non-practicing evolutionary biologists (either because they've retired or have passed away) or current students and research fellows. It also doesn't include all the biologists who work in other areas who could easily scientifically falsify the theory if it violated any basic principles. You've also got to take into account the countless other scientists working in completely different fields who have anything to do with the research at all. Geologists (who are often the ones who find fossils) and Geochronologists (who date the fossils, among other things) just to mention a couple. All in all you potentially have tens of thousands of people all over the world who would need to be in on the lie. And that's just those who are still alive today.

So now you ask yourself a question. Does it seem possible that none of those tens of thousands of people who are involved have blown the whistle on the lie? Of course it doesn't. To suggest that such far-reaching and pervasive conspiracies are even possible defies logic.

There are conspiracies, and then there is paranoid delusion. There's a pretty big difference.
 
Rav said:
Conspiracies are possible no matter what you are talking about. But a lie becomes harder and harder to maintain the more people are involved in it.
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I have suggested that only a very few people need even be aware of the lie.
The less people involved, the better. It's trickle-down science.
 
That's a load of crap. You can't debunk evolution so you resort to a vague accusation of conspiracy.
 
gmilam said:
To what end? I mean, this would imply someone is deliberately trying to hide the "truth". What advantage would this give them?
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In the case of evolution, I can imagine such a scenario where hiding the truth from the masses would be advantageous for those few in power. In fact it's what I believe is currently the situation. I'd rather not get into the details though because I know it would sound crazy. But I will say that controlling the evolution/creation debate may be only part of a much bigger deception.
 
There is an actual conspiracy going on on the part of creationists to suppress the science of evolution. Unlike your theory, I can provide evidence.
 
Rav said:
I can appreciate your predicament. I promise I wont assume anything if you don't reply for a while. If you'd like to pick up this discussion again at a later time it's fine with me :)
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yes, let's do that. another 5 or 6 days should do it.
 
It's trickle-down science.
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That strikes me as one of the most important, ubiquitous, and dominating misconceptions underlying creationism in the US - and its central connection with religion:

the notion that science trickles down, with its source in authority.
 
matthew809 said:
What do you think is the strongest argument for evolution?
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The discovery of the mechanism for heredity, DNA. This, perhaps more than any other thing solidified evolution as the most powerful explanatory mechanism yet discovered to explain the similarities and differences between life forms.
What do you see as evolution's weak spot?
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The difficulty in explaining it to the weak-minded.
 
matthew809 said:
I believe religion is controlled deception as well, and only those at the top need be aware of the reasons for it.
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Religion is such a controversial topic that we don't need anyone to manipulate us into debating it's tenets. That will happen all by itself because of human nature.

Are you really suggesting that the Bible, the Qur'an, all the other major religious texts as well as scientific theories such as evolution and the big bang have all been fabricated by people "at the top"?

Did you think I was arguing for the side of religion?
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I was just taking a stab in the dark in an effort to try and figure out where you were coming from so I could form a strategy to try to snap you out of your delusional thinking. I feel that it's a noble pursuit, but I am also certain that I will fail. What can I say? I feel like chatting and this forum is often slow.
 
matthew809 said:
What do you think is the strongest argument for evolution?
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For me it is simply the observed examples of natural selection and speciation. Extend that over millions of years and it seems impossible for evolution not to occur.

What do you see as evolution's weak spot?
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Abiogenesis. I don't consider it a weakness as such, just an aspect of the theory that is lacking evidence. But you know what? I don't have a problem with the people (and there are many) who believe that it was God who was responsible for it. At least until we can reproduce it in a lab, there is not necessarily any conflict.
 
matthew809 said:
I have suggested that only a very few people need even be aware of the lie.
The less people involved, the better. It's trickle-down science.
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Regardless of where the science comes from it is all subject to peer review. So you still have a problem where everyone would need to be in on a lie.
 
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