Do you agree with capital punishment?

[Syzygys]

No No No, and NO! It is expensive and it kills innocent people.

1. It is only expensive in the USA with its fucked up justice system. fair trial, fairer retrial and quick execution. It is actually pretty cheap... (surgeries are also expensive, we could save money by cutting back on them)

2. It only kills innocent people if badly applied.

Any other arguments? I think not....

 

[Syzygys]

Execution does not punish the criminal because he is now dead and cannot feel bad.

Depends on the type of execution. I can think of a few good ones where it takes days to die.

I think your point is that jailing the criminal is more punishment. I agree. But if we want more punishment, let's just torture the bastard for a while then execute him. Also the question of sadism comes up, if we keep him alive just to inflict more pain.

And execution does punish the criminal because it removes him from the existing ones....

Now, is there any argument I haven't dealt with?

 

[Syzygys]

I meant that the ultimate goal is to change their mind in the process and live normally and peacifully as we all do

That is called lobotomy and hasn't been used since the 80s I think.

But if I massacre your family then I change my mind and apologize, I hope we can all live peacefully. I might even move in with you since now you have extra rooms...

 

[Syzygys]

It simply does not work as a deterrent (nor does capital punishment),

Sure it does, we just don't use it often enough. Let's say speeding would be punished by execution on site. After seeing 3 drivers executed on the roadside by police, I bet you would think about speeding twice....Am I right?

 

[Syzygys]

I'm not against the death penalty because criminals don't deserve it. I'm against it because our ability to determine who is a criminal will never be 100% reliable.

So I guess if we have 200% evidence (let's say video, 25 eyewitnesses, confession, DNA,caught on site,etc.) you don't have a problem with it. Thanks...

Well, we have 2 posters so far who depending on circumstances turned IN FAVOUR of CP. Now let's see after reading my arguments how many more turns over to the "dark side". Don't be shy, you know it is right...

 

[Syzygys]

Either way, it still is expensive too.

So if I prove to you that let's say in India it is cheaper to execute the bastard than keep him in jail, you don't have a problem with CP? I think we have the 3rd turnover!!!

I haven't even heard the religious argument but that is OK, because it is one of the easiest to refute...

Oh yes, I missed this one:

Lethal injection is just as expensive.

I appreciate how frugal you are, but I think I can spare a bullet for each criminal from my private collection. You know what else is expensive? Unnecessery wars! Nevertheless we still do that, so I guess we can waste a couple of cianide canisters on criminals...

 

[Frud11]

After seeing 3 drivers executed on the roadside by police, I bet you would think about speeding twice....Am I right?

That would depend. Say I didn't see 3 (or any) roadside "capital punishments", what would I think if a cop pulled me over, pulled out his gun and said "time's up"?

Why would my seeing roadside executions stop me from speeding if I believed I had to do it (say, to get someone having a cardiac arrest to a hospital)?
Would all transgressors be shot on sight, including "important" people, or just "ordinary" folks?

What about cops who speed, or would they be given a "necessary" exemption; what about an off-duty cop, would his workmates execute him, as required by law?

 

[Frud11]

There are plenty of examples of other social animals who punish transgression, this isn't our imagination or anthropomorphism. Animal behaviourists have lots of observations of this, it seems kind of fundamental; meerkats, lemurs and other primates, especially bonobo chimps, have punishment and ostracism, and they display the same range of sexual behaviour as we do, so I guess we're still animals. Except we attach different meanings to it. They "get away" with murder, but get ostracised for theft or other misbehaviour, things we forgive,as it were.

 

[lucifers angel]

one more state in america has just outlawed the death penalty because it is barbaric, i was watching a programme the other night and someone was being executed by the electric chair and it is barbaric and no one deserves to die like that, also what if they made a mistake, what can be done then? you cant bring that person back to life, and what about the family of your murder victim!

the death penalty is just legalised murder

 

[Syzygys]

..

You are LATE to the party. ALL your arguments have been already addressed. Anything new?

Murdering somebody in an incredily cruel way is also barbaric, so what's up with that? So I assume a quick bullet to the head doesn't make you oppose CP.

 

[Syzygys]

Would all transgressors be shot on sight,

Only posters whose handle starts with an F.

Your arguments are silly. Let's say these 2 teenagers who killed their little sister with Mortal Kombat moves were hang tomorrow and the clip shown in every school the next morning, I bet teenagers would be KINDER to their little sibblings following the viewing...

 

[Tiassa]

Jus' mah humble opinion

Let's say these 2 teenagers who killed their little sister with Mortal Kombat moves were hang tomorrow and the clip shown in every school the next morning, I bet teenagers would be KINDER to their little sibblings following the viewing

I hope you don't mind if I borrow a phrase:

Your arguments are silly.

Oh, right, I need to borrow another:

You are LATE to the party ... your arguments have been already addressed.

See post #11 for prior address of homicide as a deterrent. And, since I'm aware that people generally don't actually click links and read the whole article that someone else excerpts, I'll include another excerpt of the New York Times editorial you'll find in that post:

New Jersey’s decision to replace the death penalty with a sentence of life without parole seems all the wiser coming in the middle of a month that has already seen the convictions of two people formerly on death row in other states repudiated. In one case, the defendant was found not guilty following a new trial.

The momentum to repeal capital punishment has been building in New Jersey since January, when a 13-member legislative commission recommended its abolition. The panel, which included two prosecutors, a police chief, members of the clergy and a man whose daughter was murdered in 2000, cited serious concerns about the imperfect nature of the justice system and the chance of making an irreversible mistake. The commission also concluded, quite correctly, that capital punishment is both a poor deterrent and “inconsistent with evolving standards of decency.”

By clinging to the death penalty, states keep themselves in the company of countries like Iran, North Korea and China — a disreputable pantheon of human mistreatment. Small wonder the gyrations of New Jersey’s Legislature have been watched intently by human rights activists around the world.

(New York Times)

I'm going to bet that those innocent people would not have been set free if they had, as one of our posters suggested, been tortured to death "within 2 weeks of their sentence".

 

[sowhatifit'sdark]

Fry 'em. The faster the better.

Is this what you think Jesus would have wanted?

No more waiting on death row for up to 30 years. Fry 'em within 2 weeks of their sentence. That may deter some of the scum out there. I also think they should be treated exactly like they treated their victim before they are fried.

And if evidence comes up later that they were innocent, how many people should we then fry. The judge, just the executioner, the governor for not granted a reprieve....

I have no use for jail. It's an improvement for most who are there.

This is interesting. God, I could go in so many directions. If you are right, perhaps we could reduce crime by making certain parts of society less like places that are worse than prisons.

On the other hand. I am quite sure you are wrong. But I am interested in hearing what studies led you to this conclusion.

3 meals, medical care, dental care, housing, no work, responsibility, no mortgage, computer, phone, tv.. Jail enables losers to stay losers. The guys who fight, join gangs, and misbehave, should be severely punished. If they can't behave, throw them in the hole. I have zero tolerance for criminal behavior.

White collar crimes also, I assume.

Oh, and fry 'em slow. V---E---R---Y slow.

Again, does this seem to you to be something Jesus would have approved of in you, this demand for torture`-

 

[CarvedMercury]

If your own baby was tortured and raped then cut into pieces by someone,

would you want them dead? If not then what do you think would be a good

punishment.

True, I would at the time, but I'd be a mess and it shouldn't be made by emotional wrecks. Of course I'd feel differently if something personal happened to me, but so would I if someone I knew was wrongly executed.

 

[CarvedMercury]

I think they should be punished by being put in solitary confinement in an empty room eating gruel for the rest of their lives. I think removing all contact with any other humans would, (including like books, etc) would be horrible. Also wiping their memory if possible could be good.

 

[CarvedMercury]

And does capital punishment and that revenge actually fully alleviate the grief of the victims relatives?

 

[sandy]

Is this what you think Jesus would have wanted?And if evidence comes up later that they were innocent, how many people should we then fry. The judge, just the executioner, the governor for not granted a reprieve....
This is interesting. God, I could go in so many directions. If you are right, perhaps we could reduce crime by making certain parts of society less like places that are worse than prisons.
On the other hand. I am quite sure you are wrong. But I am interested in hearing what studies led you to this conclusion.
White collar crimes also, I assume.
Again, does this seem to you to be something Jesus would have approved of in you, this demand for torture`-

Fry 'em all. I'm tired of criminals bs. They want to break the law, then fry 'em. I'm sick of paying for them to vacation in jail. Fry 'em all.

 

[USS Exeter]

So if I prove to you that let's say in India it is cheaper to execute the bastard than keep him in jail, you don't have a problem with CP? I think we have the 3rd turnover!!!

In that circumstance, if there is overwhelming evidence, then no, execute the murderer. The problem is with more primitive countries, it is harder to find evidence with their kind of technology.

 

[USS Exeter]

Using the execution of choice, is not the expensive part, all of the time in court, finding enough evidence to prove his/her guiltiness, and filing the criminal on death row is the expensive part.

 

[USS Exeter]

1. It is only expensive in the USA with its fucked up justice system. fair trial, fairer retrial and quick execution. It is actually pretty cheap... (surgeries are also expensive, we could save money by cutting back on them)

I live in the US!!! If every criminal accused of 1st degree homicide was tried for execution, if would be a lot more expensive than just putting them in jail for the rest of their life.