willakitty
Registered Senior Member
This one's for you, Typha! Your thread got me started, now everyone will have to suffer once again at the mercy of my ramblings...I'll try to keep it glued togethor this time...
What do we know about animals and their behavior in accordance with the infamous "sense of self" that supposedly separates man from beast?
I would think upon first reflection that animals do not have a sense of self. They don't recognize their reflections of the mirror. Wouldn't anything with a sense of self recognize itself in a mirror? Then I wonder if they don't. Afterall, the mirror was created by self centered human beings wasn't it?
Besides that animals react to things like hunger, fatigue, and fear just like humans. But if you look at each individually, you'll see that isn't really proof. I mean, when a thing is hungry, it eats regardless. If a being is hungry it contemplates its hunger as it searches for its meal. A thing would eat to appease the hunger itself, not the desire it has(n't) to sustain itself. Tired? Any animal will lay right down and go to sleep without a thought as to why. But what about us? We lay down and think about why we're tired, what we did to fatigue ourselves. Fear, better referred to as self-preservation? Hmmm...that would be close, but it's still a no go. The whole theory could be chalked up to instinct and nothing more. Of course, when face with a life threatening situation any creature will do anything to survive, unharmed if possible. Humans because we like living. Animals...I would think because they have the natural desire to pass on their DNA as many times as possible. Of course, EVERYONE wants to do that, but it is different. I want to live. I like being alive and aware of my wants and choosing to go out and cater to them. An animal has an unending mission to procreate as many times as possible while its alive. If it is harmed, it would be difficult to flee from further danger, feed itself, or ultimately live any longer. It has no desire to live for itself; only for the future of its genes. I don't want to get hurt, because, well... because it'll hurt!
Now, I have it! The answer you've all been waiting in breathless anticipation for!...
TERRITORY...is the answer. If a thing has its own territory and effectively protects it, then it must have a sense of self to some degree! "This is MY territory. Stay away from what belongs to ME. I marked this for MY OWN." Still not convinced? How 'bout this...
Studies done regarding the development of toddlers show that most children don't begin to develop their sense of self until around the time they begin to talk. They run phrases like "I want, give me, that's mine" into the ground; all you older siblings have heard it! Upon realizing that they're separate from their environment and those around them, they begin to exercise their (lack of) people skills and ownership. And on top of it all, I have a 5-month old nephew (Jao'Jao) that is JUST beginning to show any interest in his reflection in the mirror...just about the time he's beginning to show possessiveness about his teething ring and binky (any ravers out there?). May the Lord help ANYone who takes his ring and starts to get any kind of amusement out of it...Anyway, I have talked my side. Let's hear it, all!
You kick total ass, Typha! I'm expecting to hear from you...
What do we know about animals and their behavior in accordance with the infamous "sense of self" that supposedly separates man from beast?
I would think upon first reflection that animals do not have a sense of self. They don't recognize their reflections of the mirror. Wouldn't anything with a sense of self recognize itself in a mirror? Then I wonder if they don't. Afterall, the mirror was created by self centered human beings wasn't it?
Besides that animals react to things like hunger, fatigue, and fear just like humans. But if you look at each individually, you'll see that isn't really proof. I mean, when a thing is hungry, it eats regardless. If a being is hungry it contemplates its hunger as it searches for its meal. A thing would eat to appease the hunger itself, not the desire it has(n't) to sustain itself. Tired? Any animal will lay right down and go to sleep without a thought as to why. But what about us? We lay down and think about why we're tired, what we did to fatigue ourselves. Fear, better referred to as self-preservation? Hmmm...that would be close, but it's still a no go. The whole theory could be chalked up to instinct and nothing more. Of course, when face with a life threatening situation any creature will do anything to survive, unharmed if possible. Humans because we like living. Animals...I would think because they have the natural desire to pass on their DNA as many times as possible. Of course, EVERYONE wants to do that, but it is different. I want to live. I like being alive and aware of my wants and choosing to go out and cater to them. An animal has an unending mission to procreate as many times as possible while its alive. If it is harmed, it would be difficult to flee from further danger, feed itself, or ultimately live any longer. It has no desire to live for itself; only for the future of its genes. I don't want to get hurt, because, well... because it'll hurt!
Now, I have it! The answer you've all been waiting in breathless anticipation for!...
TERRITORY...is the answer. If a thing has its own territory and effectively protects it, then it must have a sense of self to some degree! "This is MY territory. Stay away from what belongs to ME. I marked this for MY OWN." Still not convinced? How 'bout this...
Studies done regarding the development of toddlers show that most children don't begin to develop their sense of self until around the time they begin to talk. They run phrases like "I want, give me, that's mine" into the ground; all you older siblings have heard it! Upon realizing that they're separate from their environment and those around them, they begin to exercise their (lack of) people skills and ownership. And on top of it all, I have a 5-month old nephew (Jao'Jao) that is JUST beginning to show any interest in his reflection in the mirror...just about the time he's beginning to show possessiveness about his teething ring and binky (any ravers out there?). May the Lord help ANYone who takes his ring and starts to get any kind of amusement out of it...Anyway, I have talked my side. Let's hear it, all!
You kick total ass, Typha! I'm expecting to hear from you...