Discussion: Is pedophilia pseudoscience?
- Thread starter James R
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If it was in the last post I responded to, I didn't ignore you, I simply didn't get around to the rest of your post yet. I don't know how you're defining a child here, but people below the age of consent can certainly initiate sexual activities, including sexual intercourse. Yes, even with adults.
:shrug:
Up to now, we have clearly been talking about prepubescent children. But here you try to shift the goalposts by including adolescents and others "below the age of consent".
A 4 year old does not initiate sex with an adult, nor desire it. Agree?
I wasn't attempting to discuss the moral or legal aspects of pedophilia, merely the scientific concepts that have been studied.
btw, I found a reproduction of the Richard Green article, if you're interested.
http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/BIB/pedophilia.htm
I'm only citing this one because I've read it. I don't have time to devote right now, but I will look into this subject a little more, from a scientific point of view
James, I commend you for actually allowing the discussion of this issue on your board. However, I think that S.A.M. has a valid point, if perhaps not perfectly stated. Perhaps you think that you're being objective. I and some others don't. This is part of the reason that I didn't answer your whole post in my last post here; it just gets so tiring the way you simply can't use neutral terms such as 'sexual interaction' and insist on the fallacy that all sexual interactions between adults and minors/children must be abusive.
Anyway, I'd like to point out that I've certainly seen -less- objective people and forums, thus the commendation.
if you,as an adult, partake in those initiations knowing they are minors you are guilty of child molestation.
do you, as a muslim, condone exploiting the innocent?Thats a result of your Christian heritage.
Thanks a lot for taking the time to bring up these points S.A.M. I've discussed this issue ever since I was 22 or so; considering I'm now 33, that's about a third of my life. It can definitely get tiring to go against the flow of society for so long and I have definitely taken breaks to dedicate to other issues (you may have noticed that most of my earlier posts here had nothing to do with this subject, unless you count how many people have apparently been fooled into believing untruths, but instead with 9/11).
Yes, leopold, I know the law. I just don't always agree with it, but this doesn't mean I don't follow it.
As a Muslim, I believe in following the nafs, its anti-Islamic to subvert what is natural.
The discussion here is, what is "natural"?
scott3x:
Your "neutral terms" are an attempt to pussy-foot around the issue. We've already seen ancientregime's claim that an adult performing oral sex on an infant is not a form of sexual abuse. The infant involved can't even speak, let alone understand or consent to such an act. This is a clear case of an adult in a position of power over a child completely abusing that position for his own selfish gratification, with no regard for the child as anything other than a masturbatory object.
Rights to personal privacy, autonomy, the right to choose one's sexual partners, the right to control one's own body and so on are all rights that all acknowledge that every adult should have. Any yet, here we have a bunch of pedophile apologists arguing that children are not entitled to any such rights.
If oral sex was performed on a non-consenting adult we would call it rape. So why are children any different? Sex like this between an adult and child is a form of child abuse, pure and simple.
Your "neutral terms" are an attempt to pussy-foot around the issue. We've already seen ancientregime's claim that an adult performing oral sex on an infant is not a form of sexual abuse. The infant involved can't even speak, let alone understand or consent to such an act. This is a clear case of an adult in a position of power over a child completely abusing that position for his own selfish gratification, with no regard for the child as anything other than a masturbatory object.
Rights to personal privacy, autonomy, the right to choose one's sexual partners, the right to control one's own body and so on are all rights that all acknowledge that every adult should have. Any yet, here we have a bunch of pedophile apologists arguing that children are not entitled to any such rights.
If oral sex was performed on a non-consenting adult we would call it rape. So why are children any different? Sex like this between an adult and child is a form of child abuse, pure and simple.
This is an example of the [enc]Appeal to nature[/enc] logical fallacy.
Even if it can be established that pedophilia is "natural" for some people, it does not follow that it is morally acceptable or "good" or desirable - which was my previous point.
we at least agree on one thing.
i thought this would be a moral issue, am i wrong?
you cannot argue a moral issue with science.
what is natural? in regards to our sex laws the collective will of the people determines that.
But I'm not discussing the morality, or the legality.
The collective will of the people is a shifting paradigm.
The legal definition of a child is the same as a minor; that is, someone below the age of consent. If you want to only deal with prepubescent children, say so.
James R said:
If the 4 year old child was female, I think you may just be right in all cases in terms of the desiring penetrative sex. As I have mentioned before, however, issues of size and depth of penetration are important factors to consider.
Not sure about males, who would be doing the penetrating instead of being penetrated. I personally am not sure how one would define the initiation of sex either.
They dont know anything about sex the way adults know about sex. To them its not associated with a word or an act. Such thoughts only stay inside their brain as signals. And they are meant to figure it out naturally. I used to get into troubles at school when i was 6-9 yrs old for drawing pictures of naked female body. I knew nothing about sex. And ever since i was 3 yrs old, i was way too curious to closely examine a female genetial because it was looking way different than the one I had. I know how many times my teachers complained to my parents and they kept teasing me for years.
I should explain that I am not endorsing pedophilia. As someone who has lived in three different cultures with varying distinct and contradictory notions of sexuality, I am aware of the dominant role of society in defining sexual norms.
After spending some time last year on the emergence of homosexuality in Eastern culture as a separate and distinct expression of sexual preference, I have become interested in the extent to which society determines not only our sexual behaviour, but also our bias against sexual behaviour.
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