Disaster in Iraq

[Q-reeus]

That is certainly not the case. Many liberal American Jews including me would agree with him on many points.

My context was Israeli Jews - which Gilad Atzmon was born and raised as. Those not A-fundie crazies are secular Zionists with little exception. Of course probably the great majority of Jews in US/Europe are secular in outlook and many of those thankfully have no time for the Zionist regime in Israel.

But he goes too far. When you start talking about a Jewish cabal to run the world, you've lost me.

So pick actual holes in his argument then. After studying that brief vignette I supplied.

How about a Protestant cabal to run the world? They seem to be doing a better job of it than us.

You have the same problem dealing with real history and political reality that iceaura does. Follow the money. US Congressmen & Senators are all bought and payed for - and not by Protestants. By Zionist multi-billionare Jews. Just count the standing ovations every time that shit Netanyahu addresses either or both houses. Sickening display of sycophantry that any POTUS would envy.

 

[iceaura]

You have the same problem dealing with real history and political reality that iceaura does. Follow the money. US Congressmen & Senators are all bought and payed for - and not by Protestants

Uh: They are bought and paid for by Protestants. Republican Protestants, for the most part. There are some Jews in there, and some Catholics, and even a few Democrats (especially the Jews and Catholics), but the wealthy and powerful in the US are mostly WASPS.

That doesn't mean they aren't Zionists, of course. Lots of Protestants in the US are Zionists.

 

[Q-reeus]

Uh: They are bought and paid for by Protestants. Republican Protestants, for the most part. There are some Jews in there, and some Catholics, and even a few Democrats (especially the Jews and Catholics), but the wealthy and powerful in the US are mostly WASPS.

A lot of folks think the Rockefeller clan are Protestants. Such a veneer exist, but dig a little and it would seem not: http://www.whale.to/b/rockefeller9.html Anyway with subsequent strategic intermarriage with members of the Rothschild clan (and other wealthy tribal members), such hidden family history scarcely matters. Rivalry for power is always within the overarching Zionist paradigm.

Fact is, no Congressman or Senator openly critical of Israel or more broadly Zionist power in the US, has a chance of being re-elected. Similarly for political hopefuls trying to get there. Historical record will show that. No other issue carries that political determinant weight. With few if any exceptions (maybe Ron Paul was), every POTUS hopeful must go through this awful ritual of publicly declaring their unwavering support for the Jewish State. Trump (in)famously declared he is '1000%' behind Israel. And to show that, has appointed a rabidly Zionist ambassador to that country who stridently calls for the capital to be moved from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. Which if ever enacted is a sure guarantee of another Arab-Israeli conflict. And with their vast nuclear arsenal, that could indeed be a key part of Israel's game plan down the track.

That doesn't mean they aren't Zionists, of course. Lots of Protestants in the US are Zionists.

Yes indeed. And thanks to those televangelist traitorous fools pumping up their sheeple into fervent monetary and political support, it greatly benefits The Jewish State. Which is ironic since the real deal Jew Zionists despise the Christian ones. Treating them as useful idiots with strategic value in the near to medium term. Just let a Christian Zionist try and go to Israel and marry a Zionist Jew. Against the law there. Reality check as to Zionist ranking order.

 

[iceaura]

A lot of folks think the Rockefeller clan are Protestants

Yes. That's because they are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Rockefeller
What they are not is the only rich family of Protestants in the US.

Most of the wealthy and powerful people in the US are WASPS. WASPS control the US government, most of its land, and most of its wealth. Most of them are not Rockefellers.

Fact is, no Congressman or Senator openly critical of Israel or more broadly Zionist power in the US, has a chance of being re-elected.

Except for Sanders, Paul, Kerry, Warren, and dozens of others over the many years. And that's just in the Senate - in the House, where things are more local and foreign policy is more grandstanding than immediate, outright anti-Semitism has been seen.

You are missing a key aspect of Zionism in the US: it's a Protestant issue, a fundamentalist Christian matter. There are lots of Zionist Americans who are bigoted against Jews.

No other issue carries that political determinant weight

You mistake ubiquity for weight.

Yes indeed. And thanks to those televangelist traitorous fools pumping up their sheeple into fervent monetary and political support, it greatly benefits The Jewish State. Which is ironic since the real deal Jew Zionists despise the Christian ones. Treating them as useful idiots with strategic value in the near to medium term. Just let a Christian Zionist try and go to Israel and marry a Zionist Jew. Against the law there. Reality check as to Zionist ranking order.

The contempt is often mutual - bigots are the same the world over, and many American Protestants harbor serious bigotry against Jews.

Meanwhile, the marriage laws have nothing to do with "rank" - they are leftovers from the British colonial adoption of Ottoman law, which in the British view was convenient and perfectly adequate for the Semitic people who lived in the region. Protestants cannot marry anyone in Israel, even each other, because the Ottoman empire did not include any Protestant sects in its list of religions. But if anyone wants to get married, they have only to visit a nearby country with less goofy laws (which would mean careful choice - many of the Muslim countries still have Ottoman laws or some Sharia variant), or sail into international waters and get married, something like that - Israel recognizes all legal marriages. A Protestant can be married to a Jew in Israel - there's just no way for them to get married there.

And none of this bears on the OP - the current disaster in Iraq, which being largely made up of consequences of the Iraq War and subsequent botched occupation, was brought about almost entirely by Republican Protestants.

 

[Q-reeus]

Yes. That's because they are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Rockefeller

Just a front. The Jew insider, limited circulation reference book quoted in that article I linked to tells the real story.

What they are not is the only rich family of Protestants in the US.

No, but they still possess enormous power far outweighing their numbers. Show me a powerful actual Protestant tycoon who has survived politically in recent times whilst also being openly 'anti-Semitic' (a stupid misnomer in general - Palestinians are Semites - guess who that makes the 'anti-Semites' in Israel). History records the 'unfortunate string of family tragedies' that befell the 'anti-Semitic' Catholic Kennedy clan. Best to know who really calls the shots - sometimes literally: https://www.john-f-kennedy.net/mossadandtheassassination.htm

Most of the wealthy and powerful people in the US are WASPS. WASPS control the US government, most of its land, and most of its wealth.

Feel free to believe that. Like I said, it's Israel and ONLY Israel every POTUS hopeful is obliged to openly declare total support for. How strange these 'anti-Semitic Protestant power-brokers' of yours must be. I guess you will now tell us the Fed was not a Zionist Jew creation or is not openly run for at least the last 3 times in a row by such Jews. And has always been controlled by them.

Except for Sanders, Paul, Kerry, Warren, and dozens of others over the many years...

Quote me passages from any of them - surviving to a subsequent term in office - who espoused anything passing as truly 'anti-Semitic' or anti-Israel. And where there was no humiliating retractions extracted (shades of Mel Gibson's experience).

And that's just in the Senate - in the House, where things are more local and foreign policy is more grandstanding than immediate, outright anti-Semitism has been seen.

Really? And again - any of those espousing 'outright anti-Semitism' got to be re-elected? Without having been pressured into issuing a humiliating retraction? You mean to say the ADL (which should be contracted to just DL) and other Zionist attack dogs were sleeping on the job?! What has the Zionist world come to?!

You are missing a key aspect of Zionism in the US: it's a Protestant issue, a fundamentalist Christian matter. There are lots of Zionist Americans who are bigoted against Jews.

The last part has some truth to it, but there numbers are relatively small. As is their influence. Maybe many privately hold such views, but it's suicide to openly admit such.

You mistake ubiquity for weight.

Ubiquity implies weight. It happens for a reason. Political survival, or at least the chance for it.

The contempt is often mutual - bigots are the same the world over, and many American Protestants harbor serious bigotry against Jews.

Covered before.

Meanwhile, the marriage laws have nothing to do with "rank" - they are leftovers from the British colonial adoption of Ottoman law, which in the British view was convenient and perfectly adequate for the Semitic people who lived in the region. Protestants cannot marry anyone in Israel, even each other, because the Ottoman empire did not include any Protestant sects in its list of religions.

You are kidding, right? Or actually believe the Zionist regime would bind itself to some long outdated Ottoman empire regulations? More fruitcake.

But if anyone wants to get married, they have only to visit a nearby country with less goofy laws, or sail into international waters and get married by a ship captain - Israel recognizes all legal marriages.

That much is true. But the repressive ultra-tribalist marital laws operative within Israel betrays any notion of 'equality among Zionists'. And exposes Israel's deeply tribalist/racist character. Imagine the outcry if such a policy were adopted in any so-called Western democracy. But hey - they are God's Special Chosen. We have no right to criticize them the way we would automatically criticize ourselves.

And none of this bears on the OP - the current disaster in Iraq, which being largely made up of consequences of the Iraq War and subsequent botched occupation, was brought about almost entirely by Republican Protestants.

Feel free to believe such. But the demonstrable history of 9-11 and 'War on of Terror' continually on-rolling aftermath is 'Oded Yinon/Clean Break/PNAC working itself destructively out to Israel's advantage. You never did try and rebut that piece I linked to in #57. No guesses as to why.

 

[iceaura]

Just a front. The Jew insider, limited circulation reference book quoted in that article I linked to tells the real story

No, it doesn't. It makes at least one obviously false claim of fact - that John D was mysteriously wealthy before he got into business at all - and rests its remaining argument on innuendo about the ancestral Rockefellers in France. Nobody in the US is Jewish because they had a Jewish ancestor in Europe two hundred years ago. It's obviously garbage.

The first wealthy Rockefeller in the US was born poor and Baptist, raised a resident of Cleveland, Ohio; died rich and Baptist, buried in Cleveland, Ohio.

Show me a powerful actual Protestant tycoon who has survived politically in recent times

Tycoons don't "survive politically" at all, in the US. Most of them stay away, let their money do their talking. As far as wealthy and powerful Protestants living comfortable lives and having great political influence, how long a list do you want? They are the dominant demographic class in the richest country in the world.

You are kidding, right? Or actually believe the Zionist regime would bind itself to some long outdated Ottoman empire regulations?

They didn't "bind themselves" - they were set up that way, by the British. That they haven't been able to throw them off, and rewrite their legal code from the ground up, is indeed a mark against them - but then, they have had to deal with some stuff of higher priority - right?

Quote me passages from any of them - surviving to a subsequent term in office - who espoused anything passing as truly 'anti-Semitic' or anti-Israel. And where there was no humiliating retractions extracted (shades of Mel Gibson's experience).

Of course public anti-Semitism can bring on scorn and humiliation - that's because it's childish and ugly and contemptible garbage that has led to great harm in Western civilization. But anti-Israel stuff is pretty routine - the Zionists get bent out of shape, but lots of Americans think Israel behaves badly in some ways.

The last part has some truth to it, but there numbers are relatively small. As is their influence.

Nah, they aren't. Either one. The country clubs and fancy fraternities and social worlds of the very wealthy in the US have always had a deep suspicion of Jews (the colleges and universities in which their children were schooled had Jewish exclusion and quota policies until very recently), and the anti-Semitic bigotry of the fundamentalist Christian faction - a good quarter of the US population - is quite open. Remember that large areas of the US were settled by German and Irish immigrants from the demographic centers of anti-Semitic bigotry.

Why do you think the ADL is so vigilant, in the US? Because it's a serious problem.

Ubiquity implies weight.

Unless it's ubiquity of anti-Semitism, apparently. Then it doesn't count.

Really? And again - any of those espousing 'outright anti-Semitism' got to be re-elected? Without having been pressured into issuing a humiliating retraction?

Sure - all of them, afaik. The House has a 90% re-election rate.

That much is true. But the repressive ultra-tribalist marital laws operative within Israel betrays any notion of 'equality among Zionists'. And exposes Israel's deeply tribalist/racist character.

So? Every country in that part of the world can be described like that, and most of them are worse. I don't like it, but I don't have to live there.

History records the 'unfortunate string of family tragedies' that befell the 'anti-Semitic' Catholic Kennedy clan.

The Kennedy clan was not anti-Semitic. They were Irish Catholic - and they crossed the Italian Catholic mob, more than the Jewish one. The Italians and the Irish have a history of serious conflict, in the US - and the Kennedy clan was throwing their weight against the Italian mob from the White House. If you want a conspiracy, that at least makes sense - it even looked like a mob hit. The one you're pushing here requires that US denial of weapons-level reactors to Israel in the 1960s was equivalent to Kennedy denying them nuclear weapons - when they already had a weapons development deal with France, and were no more than a couple of years away from a working bomb.

"And none of this bears on the OP - the current disaster in Iraq, which being largely made up of consequences of the Iraq War and subsequent botched occupation, was brought about almost entirely by Republican Protestants."
Feel free to believe such. But the demonstrable history of 9-11 and 'War on of Terror' continually on-rolling aftermath is 'Oded Yinon/Clean Break/PNAC working itself destructively out to Israel's advantage.

That's generally true - but it includes Hezbollah's behavior, Iran's behavior, Saudi Arabia's behavior, Russia's behavior, Turkey's behavior, Assad's behavior, Egypt, Libya - that's a lot of puppets. You mocked the idea that Hezbollah was Israel's puppet, recall. But look at how what they did worked out for the Master Plan.

 

[Q-reeus]

No, it doesn't. It makes at least one obviously false claim of fact - that John D was mysteriously wealthy before he got into business at all - and rests its remaining argument on innuendo about the ancestral Rockefellers in France. Nobody in the US is Jewish because they had a Jewish ancestor in Europe two hundred years ago. It's obviously garbage.

The first wealthy Rockefeller in the US was born poor, Baptist, and a resident of Cleveland, Ohio.

Whatever the true religious allegiances if any, their actions squarely align with that of the Rothschilds and other NWO Internationalists. There is some argument over priorities with the Israeli Zionists like Netanyahu, but only to the extent of whether London or NY or Jerusalem should be the ultimate seat of World Power. Wherever it is, or however it may be apportioned, it's a given among them that it will be Zionist Jews doing the ruling.

Tycoons don't "survive politically" at all, in the US. Most of them stay away, let their money do their talking. As far as wealthy and powerful Protestants living comfortable lives and having great political influence, how long a list do you want? They are the dominant demographic class in the richest country in the world.

Of course by sheer but steadily shrinking demographic weight, there are many rich and somewhat powerful Protestants. And Catholics. But such are not the class who long ago mastered the art of gaining first financial then political control. The few can and do manage to rule the many. What do you think those OT stories about 'Joseph in Egypt', Moses in Egypt', 'Daniel in Babylon' etc. were really designed for? Other than to serve as inspiring and motivating role models for the more promising young tribesmen? Life has imitated art spectacularly well for them. Ben Freedman will fill you in:

They didn't "bind themselves" - they were set up that way, by the British. That they haven't been able to throw them off, and rewrite their legal code from the ground up, is indeed a mark against them - but then, they have had to deal with some stuff of higher priority - right?

Indeed, but claiming there is impotence to change colonial vestiges is ludicrous. Fact is it fits exactly with the racial/tribal 'purity' teachings of both the religious especially Talmudic Jews, and most of the secular Zionist ones there. The obsession with racial purity exceeding that of the Nazis. And by a long long time back.

Of course public anti-Semitism can bring on scorn and humiliation - that's because it's childish and ugly and contemptible garbage that has led to great harm in Western civilization. But anti-Israel stuff is pretty routine - the Zionists get bent out of shape, but lots of Americans think Israel behaves badly in some ways.

Again, from way back in #9: https://www.amazon.com/Big-Israel-Israels-Lobby-America/dp/0982775717/?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

The Kennedy clan was not anti-Semitic...

Then you are ignorant of Joe Kennedy's run-ins with the State Department Zionists especially leading up to and after the US entry to WWII. And JFK learned much from that episode.

They were Irish Catholic - and they crossed the Italian Catholic mob, more than the Jewish one. The Italians and the Irish have a history of serious conflict, in the US - and the Kennedy clan was throwing their weight against the Italian mob from the White House. If you want a conspiracy, that at least makes sense - it even looked like a mob hit. The one you're pushing here requires that US denial of weapons-level reactors to Israel in the 1960s was equivalent to Kennedy denying them nuclear weapons - when they already had a weapons development deal with France, and were no more than a couple of years away from a working bomb.

The Zionist Mob had close ties with the Italian Mafia Mob amongst many others. Well known. Of course there were various players with a potential interest in getting JFK bumped off, but the evidence points to Israel supplying the overall impetus and organization to have it pulled off. And you completely obfuscate re what Kennedy administration wanted. They wanted that program stopped. Period. To avoid a destabilizing arms race in the ME. Such was the extent of Zionist Jewish power, it turned out Israel was free to develop a huge arsenal without anyone else in the entire region being allowed to get close.

You mocked the idea that Hezbollah was Israel's puppet, recall. But look at how what they did worked out for the Master Plan.

Are you completely off your rocker? It was Hezbollah that practically single-handedly thwarted Israel's plans to annex Southern Lebanon so as to secure that region's water resources for the Jewish State. And have been a thorn in their side ever since - like in Syria.

 

[iceaura]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hank_Johnson A re-elected House member with well-known criticisms of Israel and US policy toward Israel.

Whatever the true religious allegiances if any, their actions squarely align with that of the Rothschilds and other NWO Internationalists.

They aren't Jews. They're Protestants, mostly. John D, the founder, was a hardshell Baptist.

Of course by sheer but steadily shrinking demographic weight, there are many rich and somewhat powerful Protestants. And Catholics. But such are not the class who long ago mastered the art of gaining first financial then political control. The few can and do manage to rule the many.

Nobody is ruling the rich and powerful WASP Americans - they run the country, and they have been running what has become the richest and most powerful country on earth for two hundred and fifty years.

Indeed, but claiming there is impotence to change colonial vestiges is ludicrous.

It's not a "vestige" - it's the basic law of the land from the founding moment of the country. And of course it marks against them to still have such laws, and does reveal tribalism, etc, but they have had other matters to attend - you must have noticed that?

The Zionist Mob had close ties with the Italian Mafia Mob amongst many others.

There was no Zionist mob. There was a Jewish mob, with a few Zionists prominent in it, and still is (the non-Zionists keep lower profiles). Their reasons for murdering Kennedy would have been the same as the Italian mob that is more closely implicated - the Kennedy clan was leaning on organized crime in America, pretty heavily. Robert was involved, as well as John.

"You mocked the idea that Hezbollah was Israel's puppet, recall. But look at how what they did worked out for the Master Plan."
Are you completely off your rocker?

That argument is crazy, isn't it. A person would have to be off their rocker to argue like that.

Look: I disapprove of the Nation State of Israel. It was a bad idea, and it has had bad consequences. Quite possibly the US disaster in Iraq is one of them, in some karmic roundabout fashion. The fate of the Liberty would be enough to blackball them in my book, never mind the humanitarian problems and the nukes and the speculative stuff (Kennedy assassination plausibility, etc) But the problem is not that Jews are particularly bad or even different people. And they are not to blame for the US disaster in Iraq. Protestant Republicans were running that entire show.

 

[Q-reeus]

...Look: I disapprove of the Nation State of Israel. It was a bad idea, and it has had bad consequences. Quite possibly the US disaster in Iraq is one of them, in some karmic roundabout fashion. The fate of the Liberty would be enough to blackball them in my book, never mind the humanitarian problems and the nukes and the speculative stuff (Kennedy assassination plausibility, etc) But the problem is not that Jews are particularly bad or even different people. And they are not to blame for the US disaster in Iraq. Protestant Republicans were running that entire show.

Whatever. I have neither the time or patience to keep this up. Let each stick to whatever rows their boat.