Did Pope Pius XII Really Help Jews During The Holocaust?

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goofyfish

Analog By Birth, Digital By Design
Valued Senior Member
In a recent discussion on IRC, it was suggested that he saved about 700,000 jews from the Nazis by hiding them and encouraging South American countries to accept them. It seems to me, however, that the Pope's main concern was protecting the Roman Catholic Church and he was willing to turn a blind eye towards what was happening to Jews and other non-Catholics in order to minimize attacks against the Church.

The usual defense given in defense of Pius was that if he had spoken out against the Nazi persecution of the Jews, it would have made things worse for the Jews. There does not seem to be any reason to believe this was true; in fact, Germany had a large Catholic population which might have heeded a Papal decree (the person I was talking to claimed the Pope's actions prevented persecution against the Jews in Hungary and Italy without explaining why similar actions wouldn't have worked in Germany). While there were certainly Jews who were saved by Catholics, this doesn't mean that the Vatican can claim the credit for having saved these people. The number of Jews directly saved by the Vatican are probably in the hundreds, not hundreds of thousands.

Pius XII was, unlike his fiery predecessor, too reticent to step outside the formal diplomatic positions traditionally (i.e., since the dissolution of the Papal States) expressed by the popes. His Christmas message of 1942, hailed at the time as the only voice against Hitler in Europe, is now criticized for being too bland. While I personally think he could have done more, he certainly did more than any of the other religious leaders in Europe, and world leaders of the time, so it is interesting that he is the one who continually comes up for significant discussion.

:m: Peace.
 
the general feeling among Jews towards the Vatican and the then-Pope is that he was silent about the Holocaust and other persecution and that his silence (other by choice or fear or impotence) contributed to the deaths of many Jews

John Paul II has recently recognized the Vatican's failures during those times and has apologized.

can't make it right by an apology 60 years after the fact, but it's a start

you know, i wish the current pope was the pope back then. in his younger years he was a very big activist. some give him credit for being a big force in helping bringing down communism and Soviet control in Eastern Europe
 
Let us all not down play the cetain fault of the Church in the 6,000,000 innocent lives that were murdererd just for hapepnd to be of a certain root.

Thanks at least to the late Pope John Paul the II for apologizing.
 
otheadp said:
the general feeling among Jews towards the Vatican and the then-Pope is that he was silent about the Holocaust and other persecution and that his silence (other by choice or fear or impotence) contributed to the deaths of many Jews

John Paul II has recently recognized the Vatican's failures during those times and has apologized.

can't make it right by an apology 60 years after the fact, but it's a start

you know, i wish the current pope was the pope back then. in his younger years he was a very big activist. some give him credit for being a big force in helping bringing down communism and Soviet control in Eastern Europe

The history of Church propaganda against Jews for 2,000 years had a lot to do with that, but Christians today by-in-large have changed.
 
goofyfish said:
The usual defense given in defense of Pius was that if he had spoken out against the Nazi persecution of the Jews, it would have made things worse for the Jews.
No, it's because it would have made things worse for the Catholics. The kings of occupied Denmark and Bulgaria flatly refused to participate in the holocaust and their loyal subjects rallied behind them. The Nazis didn't need the grief so they didn't push it. These acts of defiance not only did not make things worse for the Jews, it made things better. Bulgaria continued to be tolerant of its Jews--especially by the standards of both the Soviet bloc and the Balkan region--throughout the 20th Century.

Ritri5432 said:
Christians today by-in-large have changed.
That's Christendom for you, always bringing up the rear. Once a particular principle has been accepted by everyone else and is no longer controversial, the Christians all jump on the bandwagon and brag about what a positive influence Jesus has been on the world.

Christians didn't give the civil rights movement enough support to actually enable it to make any progress... until several high-profile post-WWII politicians started talking about integration, and an entire generation of Flower Children had been marching in the street.

Christians as a people have always lagged decades or centuries behind the progress of the rest of humanity. Whenever there is a conflict of ideas, Christendom has ALWAYS taken the side of evil. Christians cheered the Crusaders, ratted on their neighbors during the Inquisition, shared the plunder from the annihilation of both of the New World's civilizations, lit the fires for the witch burnings, bought and owned the slaves, marched for Prohibition, sat on the sidelines during the Holocaust, and happily slaughtered each other in Belfast.

Yes there have always been a few "real" Christians who worked in earnest against these atrocities, but the operative word is "few." Christianity has historically NEVER brought out the good in its adherents during the times when it mattered.

Christendom will never produce enough William Penns or Mother Theresas to cleanse the blood off of the bible.
 
Give It Up.........

I am sick of Protestants criticizing the Pope for not speaking up for the Jews during Nazi persecution. The facts are that the Church did do a great deal to save many Jews. The fact that they could have done more is up for debate. However, where were the Protestant Churches during this time? Where were the atheists during this time?
 
The Catholic church helped the Jews in covert ways like hiding them out but if they were found out then the Nazi's would have went after them and shut the oiperation down. But really i wonder what Christians were supposed to do? The pope could have went after Hitler with his cane or something like that but it took a world war to get rid of the Nazi party and Hitler.

Every media outlet inside Germany was controlled so this is nothing more than a pipe dream.
 
Where was anybody trying to stop the death camps? But none-the-less the Catholic Church seemingly had a peculiar position. There is a book called, "The Real Odessa" which suggests Catholic priests helped war criminals flee Germany after the war. The History channel just ran an episode on it.
 
Books can suggest pretty much anything, the more controversial the more likely to make a profit.
 
reXteryalizery

it's obvious that Pope Pius XII was …NO …enemy of the Nazis,

NO MORE than POPE Ratzinger was an enemy to the Nazis…


Hitler an X convict… & a criminal, charged & convicted of trying to violently overthrow the old German Government wrote a whole book CONDEMNING the JEWS, declaring they should be persecuted & thrown out of society…


Hitler { in his book [ ~~spoke harshly against the CURRENT religions `actions / of Rome & of Protestants ~as well for being good to the Jews..& for not… CONTINUING ON…to persecute them as viciously & forcefully ..


as THE CATHOLIC CHURCH…..HAD,,. been Persecuting & murdering the Jews for the last 2000 yrs…..


?... Pius XII was another catholic who signed a contract with this JEW HATER


THE POPE *& vatican SIGNED A CONTRACT WITH catholic HITLER demanding ALL GERMAN bishops SWEAR on the HOLY GOSPELS & ON GOD COMPLETE & LOYALITY to catholic HITLER

read ART. 16 OF ….Hitler's Concordat with the Catholic Church (1933)

There is no ….way to prove.. He saved a million Jews….its all assumption./….& fantasy…junk history…

Catholics rely on propaganda Italian…catholic … news ~ papers ,, & American…liberal…whore…organizations….like the NY Times….( what a Joke )…for their claims . & other unfactual.,/ inventions….fantasy books..

& on the word of either ignorant or desperate…..people…( Jews at the time..


in an Anti semite ,satanic ,,Italy…..) .looking for acceptance back into Italian life after the war…

THEY WOULD HAVE SAID….anything…to be accepted in Italy….and given a hope for a halfway decent life…
It is a sick joke
..while they have no records of their claims….

The facts prove…He was completely publicly…SILENT…concerning the murder of Jews….by Germany & Catholic…..Italy…who
{ his RESPONSIBLE….NOBLE.. church….helped Hitler…


Italy shipped out thousands,, of Jews…to be butchered…gassed,,,& put to death ,,,,~!---,the pope never said a word…to his faithful… RESPONSIBLE….Italians…


At the end of the WAR…Italy…/ Rome hid a small percentage of Jews ..in Rome …….after Catholic Italy surrendered,,,,…only to make themselves ,,,,look good,,, after siding with, Helping in & fighting….along side with Germany..


They lost…



The Pope's first responsibility is to Christ and His Church …{.what a joke…..


THE ENTIRE….CHURCH….JOINED… Hitler all… of Italy….HIS CHURCH….joined the Nazis…..if he was responsible He would have begged for Italians…to not Join Hitler….*..& stop shipping out innocent….children men & woman to be tortured…


responsibility to Christ and His Church ?..


..the catholic church is not Christ’s Church,,,… …

Hitler was not the lone….monster….out killing all Jews….he had helpers….people in Italy…..Catholics….the POPES church….. GERMAN catholic head,,,, bishops ordered …..[ by the pope ]…. to SWEAR on the HOLY GOSPELS & ON GOD COMPLETE & LOYALITY to catholic HITLER….
.Catholics in Germany, & italy,,,,, the POPES church~~ joined hitler…

& the pope was more interested in remaining .,..in power…in his seat of satan …on His… RESPONSIBLE…..throne & popular.. ride….than interested.. in stopping the slaughter of innocent millions…..by His congregation members …


They attacked…Greece.. & Ethiopia Russia..& other small countries……HIS CHURCH,,

[ CATHOLIC… ,ITALIANS….were butchering their neighbors…OVER power…..and is was not his responsibility ,,,to demand they STOP ?


Nazis, catholics , protestants atheists * & ALL groups had victims / heros …of individuals…who refused to go along with the majority…of JEW KILLERS..


The Roman Catholic church has never, ever been a friend to the Jew….)( when in power.. NOR the bible believer

HITLER HAD 3 ARABIC ISLAMIC DIVISISIONS...IN HIS S.S///ARMY ....


Popes claim in catholic catechism 2 N.D. Editiion. # 841 that''


muslims;...these profess to hold the faith of abraham, and together with us [catholics]...they adore the one, merciful god, mankind's judge on the last day


MAY 1985 POPE John Paul II repeats ROMES DECLARATION TO AUDIENCE OF THOUSANDS


THE POPE said: “CATHOLICS Muslims, WE have MANY THINGS IN COMMON as BELIEVERS and as human beings...WE BELIEVE IN THE SAME GOD


,,,THE CATHOLIC GOD IS THE MUSLIM GOD


THATS WHY YOUR POPE CAN KISS & STROKE AND BOW TO THE UNHOLY QURAN


The catholic sect….Damns….and condemns…the BIBLE BELEIVER / non catholic Christ ian…… as LOST. Headed for hell…


The catholic sect….Damns….and condemns…the BIBLE BELEIVER / non catholic Christ ian…… ~~~as DESERVING of whatever punishment the POPES can manipulate their frenzied mobs of Catholics to perform…~~~at whatever point or bowel of history at any given time…possible.


The catholic sect….Damns….and condemns…the BIBLE BELEIVER / non catholic Christ ian…… as serving ANOTHER EVIL JESUS….
Rome SAYS


'Heretics / NOT MEMBERS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ….. DO NOT HOLD TO CATHOLIC DOCTRINE) & worship a GOD WHO IS A LIAR, & CHRIST WHO IS A LIAR.'


BUT Muslims & ISLAM //OOH they ALL SERVE OUR GOD…..and we Kiss and BOW down to their QURAN *& service ALLAH / satan



ROME HAS BURNED THOUSANDS OF BIBLES, translated in non italian......./,, claiming they were error......



burned people alive../ .hunted them down,,/ ,condemned,,& damned the translators.. & .banned their bibles.....


but kisses the quran...saying it is the book of the,,,,,God of the bible....& all catholics.

This is the same …EXACT…...standard & SAME…..EXACT….situation of that of Pope Pius XII & his church,….allied with satan / Hitler & the the…. islamic…..Grand Mufti, Haj Muhammed Amin al-Husseini….


They all serve the same god….& hate the bible…hate Jews…& Gods people….& have proven it clearly……time & time again..

If Catholics WISH to quote the scriblings of news papers & THE PRESS...{ FROM the past }~~.Why not ...



Read what the.......SPAINISH.....~~JUNK MEDIA.. { NEWS PAPER..}..=~~THE,~~~Press ~~UNDER...the Catholic, Spanish dictator, Franco,


published on the 3rd of May, 1945, the day of Hitler's death.


It said,



"Adolf Hitler, son of the Catholic Church, died while defending Christianity." It is therefore understandable that words cannot be found to lament over his death,.................................."


Over his mortal remains stands his victorious moral figure. With the palm of the martyr,


God gives Hitler the laurels of Victory."


This funeral oration of Adolph Hitler was voiced by the Holy See itself, under the cover of Franco's press. It is a communique of the Vatican via Madrid....


IN FACT



ITALY WAS a facist...state durring the period when these news papers were praising your Pope....


So Y,,....give them any credence at all


whatsoever......


BUT SHOULD YOU NOT.....REALIZE IT WAS THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE....


NEWSPAPERS..~are only as reliable...as HER customers allow HER TO BE......MOST ARE.....political...W.H.O.R.E.S


IN FACT


Hitler himself stated, "" "I learned much from the Order of the Jesuits. Until now, there has never been anything more grandiose, on the


earth, than the hierarchical organization of the Catholic church. I transferred much of this organization into my own party.".....




: Adoph Hitler said, "As for the Jews, I am just carrying on with the same policy which the Catholic church has adopted

for fifteen hundred years, when it has regarded the Jews as dangerous and pushed them into ghettos etc., because it knew what the Jews


were like. I don't put race above religion, but I do see the danger in the representatives of this race for Church and State, and perhaps I


am doing Christianity a great service."


"The Nazi Persecution of the Churches" by J S Conway pages 25 ,26 ,

and 162


your news paper quotes from a facist..murdering evil country who JOINED Hitler in torturing MILLIONS OF INNOCENT.....


only prove WHAT SEED.....YOU ARE FROM...

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Hitler was not the lone….monster….out killing all Jews….he had helpers….people in Italy…..Catholics….the POPES church….. GERMAN catholic head bishops.

ALL ordered …..[ by the pope ]…. to SWEAR on the HOLY GOSPELS & ON GOD COMPLETE & LOYALITY to catholic HITLER….
Notice how that these, DEFEND-IES, of this Catholic joker and fraud, ACLAIMED~ Jew Helper ~ think that their pope had anything to do with EARNEST deticated Help OF or saving of Jews...

It is the complete opposite..

Italy shipped out thousands,, of Jews…to be tortured, butchered…gassed,,,& put to death ,,,,~!--/ -,the pope never said one SINGLE DAMNED word…to his faithful… RESPONSIBLE…Catholic Italians…{ OR EVEN to GERMAN Catholics } ~pubicly...

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS

THE LACK OF MANPOWER, RESOURCES, INTEREST AND oughtright ABILITY for Italian Catholics to ROUND UP ITS JEWS~.

THE LACK OF PLACES for Italian Catholics TO STORE THE BODIES.~

THE OVERWHELMING NEED for lazy { catholi~cized - ignorant worshiping - Italians to USE its JEWS, to perform work INTELIGENCE and keep the country going and hobbling allong in its Great religious battle to rape the world for The Catholic Christ.

Was the only reason Catholic Italians, did not ship off every single Jew they could dig up ......NOTICE AT THE VERY, VERY end of the war.....The Nazis RALLIED back at ROME...

They were greeted with Catholic parades, smiles, flowers, dancing and cheers and BLESSINGS.

The Nazis possesed the manpower, WILL, resources and ability to begin shipping off the Catholics Jew problems.......SO THE ITALIANS turned over the 8000 JEWS who were unpoppular, POOR and had refused to be converted to catholicsim

Pius XII was "primarily, FROM THE VERY BEGENING........ exclusively, concerned about baptized CATHOLIC, CONVERTED Jews"

THIS peice of garbage and unfit EXCUSE of a man..... Pius XII's ALWAYS ....purported and installed fear of reprisals against jews who had not conveted to catholicism...

Italy~~~ did not have... / ......OR PUT UP WITH ~~~~ the so called ( JEW PROBLEM ) that Germany and all the other SURROUNDING European Catholic Countries had...

WHERE the Jews had worked their way UP into the banking, press, books, entertainment, and other prominent businesses and were very, very conservative, wize, shrewd, reserved and were not lacking in anything, due to their polygamous biblical practices of working together and biblical family structure, as the bible commands...

The Jews in IN CATHOLIC ITALY { FOR THE LAST 2000 yrs.. } were already prohibited, censured, treated as lower class DOGS...accused as Jesus killers, evil an they, their lives, their ambition and skills and synagogue had been pushed out to the lower edges of town....THEY had been suppressed, beaten down and degraded....

( in other word....a JEWS in Catholic ITALY did not have much of a life or foothold in the realm of banking, press, books, entertainment, and other prominent businesses.

( THEREFORE Catholic Italians....../~~~\.....UNLIKE Catholic Germans Catholic Austrians, Catholic Polands-- did not have the / a JEW PROBLEM.
1938 — In September, the Italian government passes The Racial Laws against the Jews, barring them from studying or teaching in a school of higher learning and revoking the citizenship of all foreign Jews obtained after January, 1919, and decreeing their expulsion within six months. On November, further discriminatory legislation will be passed, including the prohibition of marriages between Jews and Aryans and the exclusion of Jews from military and civil administrative positions.

1948 — The last edition of the papal "Index liborum prohibitorum" includes BANN on all Jewish publications.


3/1939, The GERMAN Catholic hierarchy asked Pius XII to petition the Brazilian government for 3,000 immigration visas TO ship German Catholic Jews to Brazil.

The visas ISSUED in 6/20/1939 were ONLY available to baptized Jews who could prove they were converted before 1933.

Only they could escape

Already Catholic Austria was deporting 60,000 Jews


In Croatia, 87.8%~ Catholic Ignorant Junkies {} 1943 the Nazi roundups came ".AGAIN... Jews who had been baptized Catholic or were married to Catholics would not be harmed".

In Germany, at the begening Catholics, Converted, Baptised Jews were under discussion to be shipped to a colony in Ethiopia.

In Romania, The Nazis were rounding up the Jews, Again 150,000 Roman Catholic converted were to be Shipped out to Spain. The Orthadox Church of Romania protested & prohibited The NAZI and imposing Roman Catholic Churches efforts and hand to by FORCE CONVERT & baptize Jews, & ONLY Catholic schools, were protected.

A "six-month period of their instruction and preparation, their conduct, interest, and desire to reform their lives according to Catholic principles were to be observed. ....If after all this, there were any doubts about their motivation.

Catholic, FACIST and PAPIST named Andrea Cassulo informed Pope Pius XII, that the motivations of converts were not solely religious,

and he wrote to Rome: "it is clear that human motives cannot be denied, but it is likewise true that Providence also uses human means to arrive at salvation"

Nationwide statistics on Jewish baptisms are unclear, but they certainly rose to the level that the ROMANIAN government became concerned.

In Bessarabia, 20% of the Jewish population, 40,000 Jews, were forced converted and baptized in the hope of escaping deportation and torture and death at the hands of Catholic Italy & Hitler



12/1943 the Vatican believed that it had obtained al the converted Jews that would be converted to catholicim

John Morley, an American Catholic historian declared Andrea Cassulo sincere in his belief that it was "God's plan" that the Holocaust increase the number of converts.

Overall, this Catholic Demonic Papist, Andrea Cassulo was "reluctant to intervene, except for the baptized Jews".

John Morley, an American Catholic historian argues that "his Jewish contemporaries have exaggerated, in those years of crisis, concernin his influence and efforts on their behalf"

Catholic intervention FROM the TOP is all an ~EXAGERATION AND PERVERTED SICKEND SCENE

IN Slavia... 68.9%, Roman Catholic the Catholic Govermant government passed anti-Jewish legislation on 4/18/1939, defining any Catholic JEWS converted after 9/30/1918 as Jews.

{ AND NOT RIGHTESOUS CATHOLICS ... BUT FILTHY non Catholic JEWS~~~~~ }

As in Catholic Romania, "the Vatican diplomacy " was interested in protections pertaining to Catholic schools.

Jewish Catholics were being legislated in Vativan diplomacy, less theey share in the fate of deportation.

[40] A letter from the Slovak Catholic bishops assured the Slovak government that these Jews had been sincere in their conversion and had made a "complete break with their Jewish background" AND THUS WOULD NOT BE DEPORTED, TORTURED, RAPED, BURNED & MURDERED for not BEING CATHOLIC


Historian Susan Zuccotti's research in "{ Under His Very Windows: / The Vatican and the Holocaust" } in Italy demonstrates that the pope "did not give orders to the various Roman Catholic institutions of Rome to open their doors to the Jews

published works advance her argument that Pius XII neither ordered, nor was aware of the full extent, of the rescue of Jews by Catholics and Catholic institutions.

In fact, Zuccotti argues that Pius XII disapproved of the rescue efforts, as evidenced by a December 1943 letter from the Rector of Pontificio Seminario Romano Maggiore apologizing to Pius XII for accepting refugees, apparently having been previously reprimanded.

Historian Zuccotti also finds a February 1944 order BY THE PAPACY for the removal of JEWISH fugitives from Vatican properties inconsistence with the existence of a Papal directive to save Jews.

Historian Phayer agrees with this interpretation while arguing that in fact "the Vatican cooperated in a pretend rescue attempt", which he believes was initiated by the German diplomats of Rome in a Game / petitioning for funds for obtaining lists of names to those who agreed to help Jews.

Check out this History book..that DEALS WITH THE FACTS......that stamp out catholic newspaper JIVE / driveling in post war myth, fantasy and junk history.

Jews in Italy under Fascist and Nazi Rule, 1922

the pope "did not give ANY orders to the various Roman Catholic institutions of Rome to open their doors to the Jews


A book written by Susan Zuccotti1 about the ~1939–1945~~VATICAN / family owned /..POPE PIUS}, CATHOLIC, propaganda scatTNEWS ~ PAPER L'Osservatore Romano

Therein She Wrote

" { IN the past ~~}she writes ~The frequent anti-Jewish articles in the official Vatican newspaper in the 1930s disappeared during the papacy of Pius XII

NO mention of Jews were made in the papers~} Durring the papacy of Pius XI and the eXtermination of Jews through CATHOLIC counries }}}

"""""" L'Osservatore Romano did not publicize the destruction of Europe's Jews during the Holocaust and remained reticent on other German atrocities. It did report Soviet cruelties and aggression.

""" Even after the liberation of Rome in June 1944, the newspaper failed to denounce the ongoing genocide. """
{ CONERNING THE JEWS }}}

Pope Pius & HIS Catholic country was ALL~ GUNG~ HO~ for raping the planet and helping Germany / Catholic Hitler....the pope was completly silent about the Jews....

His church had spent 2000 years killing, force converting, & denouncing, persuciting and driving the Jews down

ALL of a sudden the whole operation was over.....THEY LOST THE WAR...........NOW THEY .......TAKE A COMPLETE 180....% TURN and declare WE are not on Hitlers side......we are on the ALIED forces side,,,,we are not facists.....we are the good guys

....we save JEWS....WE HELP THE JEW>.......were....Jew LOVERS...
U SHOULD BE ASHAMED
 
reXteryalizer

When the UNITED nations of the world TOOK a vote to Give hebrews their HOMELand back.,,

THE POPE was AGAIN silent….
WHEN the USA,,,,,tried against all odds to GEt Israel into the United nations, so that their voice could be heard JUST A LITTLE louder…

AGAIn,,,,,the pope WAS completly SILENT

Catholics are fooling No one..,,,,,,

as a Jew... forgive catholics but never forgive myself for forgiving you


:geek:
 
it always amazes me the way supporters of Israel blame people for not doing enough to hep the jews without putting any thought to the dangers and responsibilities of those they condemn
 
Its not really a matter of catholics in Europe being DEFENSLESS to help JEWS..


ITS more FACTUALLY realistic & TRUTH that HITLER only reminded the catholics of what they had been doing to JEWS for the last 2000 yrs..

Catholics have been murdering jews for 2000 yrs....

Dont be amazed....JUST look at history.....

AMAZING is the fact that the jews have survived after CATHOLIC ITALY & GERMANY trying to distroy them.......

The tiny tiny SMALL fraction of Catholics trying to give a helping hand to Jews in the 1900 s......were trully amazing

THEY disobeyed & broke catholic tradition.....of JEW HATE promoted by The catholic church.


"The Lord severed the Jewish people from His kingdom, and heretics and

schismatics are also severed from the kingdom of God and from the Church. Our

Lord makes it perfectly clear that every assembly of heretics and schismatics

belongs not to God, but to the unclean spirit." St. Ambrose, "Expl. of Luke", ch.7,

91-95; PL 15; SS, vol. II, p. 85, (quoted in The Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 4:

4th and 5th centuries synagogues were burned by Cat holics . Number of Jews slain unknown. DISAGREEING PEOPLE

Mid. fourth century the first synagogue was destroyed on command of bishop Innocentius of Dertona in Northern Italy.

The first synagogue known to have been burned down was near the river Euphrat, on command of the Cat holiocs bishop of Kallinikon … 388. [DA450] DISAGREEING PEOPLE

Cat holic Council of Toledo 694: Jews were enslaved, their property confiscated, and their children forcibly baptized. [DA454] DISAGREEING PEOPLE

Cat holic Bishop of Limoges (France) 1010 had the cities' Jews, who would not convert to Cat holicism , expelled or killed. [DA453] DISAGREEING PEOPLE

First Cat holic Crusade: Thousands of Jews slaughtered 1096, maybe 12.000 total. [EJ]

Second Cat holic Crusade: 1147. Several hundred Jews were slain in Ham, Sully, Carentan, and Rameru (all locations in France). [WW57] DISAGREEING PEOPLE

Third Cat holic Crusade: English Jewish communities sacked 1189/90. [DO40] DISAGREEING PEOPLE

Fulda/Germany 1235: 34 Jewish men and women slain. By the Satanic cat holic church [DO41]

1257, 1267: Jewish communities of London, Canterbury, Northampton, Lincoln, Cambridge, and others exterminated. By the Satanic cat holic church [DO41]

1290 in Bohemian (Poland) around 10,000 Jews murdered. By the Satanic cat holic church [DO41] DISAGREEING PEOPLE

1337 Starting in Deggendorf / Germany a Jew-killing craze reaches 51 towns in Bavaria, Austria, Poland. Thousands murdered By the Satanic cat holic church [DO41]

1348 All Jews of Basel/Switzerland and Strasbourg/France (two thousand) burned. By the Satanic cat holic church [DO41] DISAGREEING PEOPLE

1349 In more than 350 towns in Germany all Jews murdered, mostly burned alive By the Satanic cat holic church

(in this one year more innocent Jews were killed By the Satanic cat holic church than all Christians in the 200 years of ancient Roman persecution of Christians). [DO42]

1389 In Prag 3,000 Jews were slaughtered. By the Satanic cat holic church [DO42]

1391 Seville's Jews killed (cat holic Archbishop Martinez leading Allah’s slaughter). 4,000 were slain, 25,000 sold as slaves. [DA454]

Their identification was made easy for all cat holics to see….by the brightly colored "badges of shame" that all jews above the age of ten had been forced to wear

1492 More than 150,000 Jews were expelled from Spain By the Satanic cat holic church, many died on their way to America: 6/30/1492. [MM470-476]

1648 Poland about 200,000 Jews were slain By the Satanic cat holic church. [DO43]
this goes on and on, century after century, right into the kilns of Auschwitz.

References:
[DA]
K.Deschner, Abermals krähte der Hahn, Stuttgart 1962.
[DO]
K.Deschner, Opus Diaboli, Reinbek 1987.
[EC]
P.W.Edbury, Crusade and Settlement, Cardiff Univ. Press 1985.
[EJ]
S.Eidelberg, The Jews and the Crusaders, Madison 1977.
[LI]
H.C.Lea, The Inquisition of the Middle Ages, New York 1961.
[MM]
M.Margolis, A.Marx, A History of the Jewish People.
[MV]
A.Manhattan, The Vatican's Holocaust, Springfield 1986.
See also V.Dedijer, The Yugoslav Auschwitz and the Vatican, Buffalo NY, 1992.
[NC]
J.T.Noonan, Contraception: A History of its Treatment by the Catholic Theologians and Canonists, Cambridge/Mass., 1992.
[S2]
Newscast of S2 Aktuell, Germany, 10/10/96, 12:00.
[SH]
D.Stannard, American Holocaust, Oxford University Press 1992.
[SP]
German news magazine Der Spiegel, no.49, 12/2/1996.
[TA]
A True Account of the Most Considerable Occurrences that have Hapned in the Warre Between the English and the Indians in New England, London 1676.
[TG]
F.Turner, Beyond Geography, New York 1980.
[WW]
H.Wollschläger: Die bewaffneten Wallfahrten gen Jerusalem, Zürich 1973.
(This is in german and what is worse, it is out of print. But it is the best I ever read about crusades and includes a full list of original medieval Christian chroniclers' writings).
[WV]
 
Its not really a matter of catholics in Europe being DEFENSLESS to help JEWS..


ITS more FACTUALLY realistic & TRUTH that HITLER only reminded the catholics of what they had been doing to JEWS for the last 2000 yrs..

Catholics have been murdering jews for 2000 yrs....

Dont be amazed....JUST look at history.....

AMAZING is the fact that the jews have survived after CATHOLIC ITALY & GERMANY trying to distroy them.......

The tiny tiny SMALL fraction of Catholics trying to give a helping hand to Jews in the 1900 s......were trully amazing

THEY disobeyed & broke catholic tradition.....of JEW HATE promoted by The catholic church.


"The Lord severed the Jewish people from His kingdom, and heretics and

schismatics are also severed from the kingdom of God and from the Church. Our

Lord makes it perfectly clear that every assembly of heretics and schismatics

belongs not to God, but to the unclean spirit." St. Ambrose, "Expl. of Luke", ch.7,

91-95; PL 15; SS, vol. II, p. 85, (quoted in The Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 4:

4th and 5th centuries synagogues were burned by Cat holics . Number of Jews slain unknown. DISAGREEING PEOPLE

Mid. fourth century the first synagogue was destroyed on command of bishop Innocentius of Dertona in Northern Italy.

The first synagogue known to have been burned down was near the river Euphrat, on command of the Cat holiocs bishop of Kallinikon … 388. [DA450] DISAGREEING PEOPLE

Cat holic Council of Toledo 694: Jews were enslaved, their property confiscated, and their children forcibly baptized. [DA454] DISAGREEING PEOPLE

Cat holic Bishop of Limoges (France) 1010 had the cities' Jews, who would not convert to Cat holicism , expelled or killed. [DA453] DISAGREEING PEOPLE

First Cat holic Crusade: Thousands of Jews slaughtered 1096, maybe 12.000 total. [EJ]

Second Cat holic Crusade: 1147. Several hundred Jews were slain in Ham, Sully, Carentan, and Rameru (all locations in France). [WW57] DISAGREEING PEOPLE

Third Cat holic Crusade: English Jewish communities sacked 1189/90. [DO40] DISAGREEING PEOPLE

Fulda/Germany 1235: 34 Jewish men and women slain. By the Satanic cat holic church [DO41]

1257, 1267: Jewish communities of London, Canterbury, Northampton, Lincoln, Cambridge, and others exterminated. By the Satanic cat holic church [DO41]

1290 in Bohemian (Poland) around 10,000 Jews murdered. By the Satanic cat holic church [DO41] DISAGREEING PEOPLE

1337 Starting in Deggendorf / Germany a Jew-killing craze reaches 51 towns in Bavaria, Austria, Poland. Thousands murdered By the Satanic cat holic church [DO41]

1348 All Jews of Basel/Switzerland and Strasbourg/France (two thousand) burned. By the Satanic cat holic church [DO41] DISAGREEING PEOPLE

1349 In more than 350 towns in Germany all Jews murdered, mostly burned alive By the Satanic cat holic church

(in this one year more innocent Jews were killed By the Satanic cat holic church than all Christians in the 200 years of ancient Roman persecution of Christians). [DO42]

1389 In Prag 3,000 Jews were slaughtered. By the Satanic cat holic church [DO42]

1391 Seville's Jews killed (cat holic Archbishop Martinez leading Allah’s slaughter). 4,000 were slain, 25,000 sold as slaves. [DA454]

Their identification was made easy for all cat holics to see….by the brightly colored "badges of shame" that all jews above the age of ten had been forced to wear

1492 More than 150,000 Jews were expelled from Spain By the Satanic cat holic church, many died on their way to America: 6/30/1492. [MM470-476]

1648 Poland about 200,000 Jews were slain By the Satanic cat holic church. [DO43]
this goes on and on, century after century, right into the kilns of Auschwitz.

References:
[DA]
K.Deschner, Abermals krähte der Hahn, Stuttgart 1962.
[DO]
K.Deschner, Opus Diaboli, Reinbek 1987.
[EC]
P.W.Edbury, Crusade and Settlement, Cardiff Univ. Press 1985.
[EJ]
S.Eidelberg, The Jews and the Crusaders, Madison 1977.
[LI]
H.C.Lea, The Inquisition of the Middle Ages, New York 1961.
[MM]
M.Margolis, A.Marx, A History of the Jewish People.
[MV]
A.Manhattan, The Vatican's Holocaust, Springfield 1986.
See also V.Dedijer, The Yugoslav Auschwitz and the Vatican, Buffalo NY, 1992.
[NC]
J.T.Noonan, Contraception: A History of its Treatment by the Catholic Theologians and Canonists, Cambridge/Mass., 1992.
[S2]
Newscast of S2 Aktuell, Germany, 10/10/96, 12:00.
[SH]
D.Stannard, American Holocaust, Oxford University Press 1992.
[SP]
German news magazine Der Spiegel, no.49, 12/2/1996.
[TA]
A True Account of the Most Considerable Occurrences that have Hapned in the Warre Between the English and the Indians in New England, London 1676.
[TG]
F.Turner, Beyond Geography, New York 1980.
[WW]
H.Wollschläger: Die bewaffneten Wallfahrten gen Jerusalem, Zürich 1973.
(This is in german and what is worse, it is out of print. But it is the best I ever read about crusades and includes a full list of original medieval Christian chroniclers' writings).
[WV]
in other words fuck the truth fuck reality your going to bash you some catholics. these kinds of rants have zero to do with truth and facts and everything to do with spreading beliefs that divide. I'm sorry you feel the jews are so special other groups should basicly commit suicide for them but that not the way the real world works.


not to mention some of your alleged numbers don't add up.
 
I say this thread needs to be closed and reteryalizer potentially banned.


this thread has devoled into a catholic hate fest. hell if IAMJoeseph was still around this thread probably would be ten pages of posts making shit up about catholcism to suit thier own purposes.

this nutter is just trolling

oh and reteryalizer the 200,000 dead were killed not by the polish but Ukrainians during a rebelling in eastern poland and the rest died in the wars of the deluge. your lack of knowledge of the history of the areas your refering to is appaling but given your agenda that not surprising.

also for those of us with even a passing understand of Eurpoean history know germany is not catholic but Luthren. way to go on butcher history.
 
Speaking as a Catholic, it has not turned into a Catholic hate-fest, although the fonts and colours being used above do seem kind of whacky, as well as displeasing to the eye.

Also speaking as a Catholic, I would like to genuinely know whether Pius was being as Pius as claimed, or whether he was talking a lot of shit. This is an important issue - yes, with many complicating factors, as Fraggle does allude to above - and it deserves a full discussion.

I request that the thread not be closed or mangled. Let's hear the cases out, even if we must only use our inside voices to do so.
 
reXteryalizer

This thread is DEVOTED to showing the BASHING, the hate & downright murder that Catholics have perpetrated upon Jews & bible believers

BY the ROMAN tic Catholic Church...millions were tortured, burned alive & their lives distroyed..

SIMPLY FOR NOT BEING A Roman tic Catholic.

IF you see a problem with adding Gen Bogdan Khmelnitsky The Greek OrthadoX Catholic causing the ..200,000 dead by Ukrainians ...

That is your business... No one wants to come to your home & take your Keyboard

The catholic hate fest. is no Joking matter, No lies or distortions are needed in discribing the facts of history,


200,000 dead were killed not by the polish but Ukrainians The Ukrainians

ok SO WHAT ?

Papal Decrees Of Mass Destruction

AD1119: Council of Toulouse presided over by Pope Calixtus II;


Pronounced a general excommunication of all heretics who favored the Albigenses.


Calixtus fumes out; "cast them out of the church, deliver them to the Sword of the State.

THE knowledge of the history of the Roman Catholic Church is a clear definition of hate & PURE EVIL....

but Luthren. BUT SATAN but these poeple over her But the LUTHERIANS

yes the LUTHERIANS as well hated Jews....BUT this is not a THREAD about Lutherians.

If U love to study about Lutherians reX would learn to learn from you..

It is amazing that catholics whose POPE has kissed the QURAN....Declaring ALLAH The God of Rome

The quran also CALLS for Torturing & murdering Jews.....As a GOOD blessed act,,

Calling them PIGS APES & animals,,,,,to be slaughtered on the LAST DAY

THE POPE KISSED THE BOOK ,.,,, like he was in love..

& He was,,,,

OR THE Spirit in the pope ... WAS in love with the Quran,,,,



ALSO POPE PIUS FAMILY TRIED TO SUE A BOOK PUBLISHER AFTER THE WAR...here in the united states ( NEW YORK }

To silence the FACTS....being written & discussed........POPE PIUS FAMILY lost the LAWSUIT....

Thrown out of court..

REMEMBER this is not Catholic Italy....This is America.....
 
Speaking as a Catholic, it has not turned into a Catholic hate-fest, although the fonts and colours being used above do seem kind of whacky, as well as displeasing to the eye.

Also speaking as a Catholic, I would like to genuinely know whether Pius was being as Pius as claimed, or whether he was talking a lot of shit. This is an important issue - yes, with many complicating factors, as Fraggle does allude to above - and it deserves a full discussion.

I request that the thread not be closed or mangled. Let's hear the cases out, even if we must only use our inside voices to do so.

than your a shitty catholic I'm sorry but referring to the catholic church as satanists is turning this into a hate fest. if your incapable of see it ok. if we remove reteryalizer than hell this thread really isn't that bad but I'm sorry as he is dominating the discourse so far this is a hate fest not to mention he has some major problems with his understanding of history.
 
This thread is DEVOTED to showing the BASHING, the hate & downright murder that Catholics have perpetrated upon Jews & bible believers
no it isn't its to discourse the history of one pope during world war two. you however are devoted to attacking catholicism.

BY the ROMAN tic Catholic Church...millions were tortured, burned alive & their lives distroyed..

SIMPLY FOR NOT BEING A Roman tic Catholic.
most religions did that. all of those from the same time period that controlled states did it as well.

IF you see a problem with adding Gen Bogdan Khmelnitsky The Greek OrthadoX Catholic causing the ..200,000 dead by Ukrainians ...
orthodox faiths aren't catholic. if you can't even understand the basic facts you shouldn't be running your mouth.

The catholic hate fest. is no Joking matter, No lies or distortions are needed in discribing the facts of history,
except your posts are filled with lies and disortions. just raddling off numbers with zero historical context is disorting history


200,000 dead were killed not by the polish but Ukrainians The Ukrainians

ok SO WHAT ?
blaming people for anothers crimes is wrong.

Papal Decrees Of Mass Destruction

AD1119: Council of Toulouse presided over by Pope Calixtus II;


Pronounced a general excommunication of all heretics who favored the Albigenses.
every faith gets rid of heretics.

THE knowledge of the history of the Roman Catholic Church is a clear definition of hate & PURE EVIL....
only in your deranged head.

but Luthren. BUT SATAN but these poeple over her But the LUTHERIANS

yes the LUTHERIANS as well hated Jews....BUT this is not a THREAD about Lutherians.
true but when you claim germany as catholic when it isn't you need to be reminded of facts you ignore because your too busy apartently frothing at the mouth with rage.

If U love to study about Lutherians reX would learn to learn from you.
I was raised in a roman catholic household but I do know a fair amount of protestant faiths unlike you who at times seem to forget the protestant reformation happened.

It is amazing that catholics whose POPE has kissed the QURAN....Declaring ALLAH The God of Rome
you find it amazing that catholics don't have a problem with religious tolerance????

The quran also CALLS for Torturing & murdering Jews.....As a GOOD blessed act,,
actually no it doesn't.

Calling them PIGS APES & animals,,,,,to be slaughtered on the LAST DAY
No it doesn't

THE POPE KISSED THE BOOK ,.,,, like he was in love..

& He was,,,,

OR THE Spirit in the pope ... WAS in love with the Quran,,,,
WTF I think your becoming even more unhinged.


ALSO POPE PIUS FAMILY TRIED TO SUE A BOOK PUBLISHER AFTER THE WAR...here in the united states ( NEW YORK }

To silence the FACTS....being written & discussed........POPE PIUS FAMILY lost the LAWSUIT....

Thrown out of court..
most people if they feel slandered do go to court.

REMEMBER this is not Catholic Italy....This is America.....
I fail to see what that has to do with the topic at hand rather than rant and rave perhaps you could at least try and containing your blind hate and stay the fuck on topic.
 
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