Did Nothing Create Everything?

Seattle said:
If it's a theory it meets that standard. If it's just a hypothesis, it doesn't. If the standard was those applied to religion however most any idea (crazy or not) would meet that (religious) standard. You seem to be pulling at straws in your attempt to discredit the scientific theory and for no particular reason it seems.

As a matter of fact (and I've tried to be humble) I am God, not the God that you are referring to (he is a competitor) and I was born on a mountain top in N.C. and I can give you the Google Earth coordinates if necessary so as to prove my claim.
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So is Abiogenesis in the theory or hypothesis arena?
 
Seattle said:
It's hidden. If I told you where it is it would no longer be hidden. The rebel base is a proselytizing free zone though. It is outside of the Lord's zone of influence. Zarak is the God of the rebel base and Zarak recognizes only one true God and that is himself.

Maybe you should go to Zimulac as it's currently an open territory.
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Great! I will jump into the next portal that opens up... there’s one... meet you there! Oh rats, it just closed! Missed it! Missed it entirely!
 
What gets me is theists can be so picky about well researched science where folk put their names and qualifications in what they have written and provide evidence etc etc and have their written work available for others to pull to pieces... yet these science sceptics fail to be the least bit critical of something written thousands of years ago usually with no note of an author or their qualifications presenting a proposition that if presented today would have everyone calling the proponent crazy...and remember all this ancient stuff was written by folk who did not know where the Sun went at night and thought disease was caused by demons, that magots appeared out of thin air, and more times than seems believable help up folk with a clear mental disorders as being in touch with God ...not do they have any problem of belonging to a cult that has cruelty and without cause killed so many inoccent people whilst porporting to be believers in god and decency...a pox on them... And these days many believe that there was a flood that covered everything, that one family built a boat on which they put two animals of every species, (failing to mention the myth has more than two in some cases) and that during their time in said boat the small family fed and cared for all these animals and that none at all died, and when the water disappeared to where goodness knows, the animals all ran around and some how the carnivors did not eat the other animals ...and notwithstanding the obvious destruction of all sources of food for the herbivores they happily survived months waiting for something to grow...so unbelievable one wonders how anyone could not expect to be laughed at by any one who gave the myth the once over..but there is more..the little family of eight then got busy to populate the world such that a few years later there were enough people in Eygpt to build perhaps the most impressive structures ever seen.
And while insisting upon there being no problems with the story or accounting for how the kangaroos made it back to Australia they fail to realise the story was lifted from an earlier civilization and such can be proven absolutely because that civilization wrote the story down many years before and that writing can be examined today by inspection of the clay tablets upon which the original version of the myth was recorded.

I like the more plausible account that there was a sea level rise, perhaps disastrous for some but certainly something that did not cover everything.

One must also wonder how this intelligent designer got it so wrong that he had to wipe clean the slate...and why if he had produced a bad batch of humans why he did not kill all of them.

It is unbelievable that theists are so brain washed they have no ability to realise they have been conned big time..and why will they not even think something could be wrong with the god story...well because if they do their god that loves them will torture them in hell for eternity..pretty harse...but after that crap suggest that humans have free will...but the sad thing is these folk stuff their kids up with brainwashing from the moment the can understand something of basic communication...that is so cruel...and so we end up with so many poor humans destroyed by fear confused by having natural feelings..sad..but horrible...

My grandmother went crazy because after she lost a child the priest told her that God was punishing her for her sins..my poor grand mother believed that lieing mungrel dog and was driven mad with guilt..If I could get my hands on that mungrel miserable Iieing dog I would tear his lieing tounge out thru his backside and beat him to death with it...ever so slowly..oh very slowly.

Alex
 
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It's so unbelievable that it proves there must be a God, right but I heard there was a crooked scientist once, what about that?

But seriously folks...

It almost seems like there are two groups of people, rational and otherwise. Who would have dreamed that there could ever be a Trump Presidency?
 
And think of all the houses of God that stupid humans build for their invisible myth...pity they could not build houses for real people who are homeless..many times from "an act of God".

My standing advice to theists..get a life, stop telling lies, stop thinking folk from the bronze Age know much more than breeding goats...and even that they got wrong...look at it this way if you can't shake the superstition...everything exists because of God right...then clearly God has given us science so we can at least know where the Sun goes at night, that magots come from flies, that disease is a result of germs etc...not to accept science will make god very very unhappy a d you know what he will do if unhappy..yes torture for eternity...so you better say thank you god for science or prepare for an eternity of horrible torture and torment, never ending, causing every nerve in your body to scream in agony way beyond anything a human can inflict..this is god doing the torture remember..
Alex
 
He does work in mysterious ways but it is not for us to understand as he is too great for that.
 
Here is a question...if god is the intelligent designer...given he seems to hate sexual conduct..why did he use sex for procreation? Bit shortsighted you could think...why design a system that has many die in child birth.
Why the need to have people worship him ... Seems a problem to me...why design harmful drugs, why design terrible diseases,...why not lead from the front, hold staff meetings each week where he calls in all the religious leaders and government leaders etc and review sales targets..you know something hands on.

Why not put hell on tv so it scares folk even more..and god could visit to tell the victims how he loves them and they only have an eternity of their punishment left..oh a movie...could you have fun or what.
Anyways I wish everyone happiness and joy...forgiveness is such a good thing as you don't waste time planning how you are going to reach up and pull someone's tounge out from the inside...I forgive you..you mungrel lieing dog for the misery you caused..I wonder how many people that man, should I call him that?, Destroyed with his lies.
Alex
 
Seattle said:
He does work in mysterious ways but it is not for us to understand as he is too great for that.
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Absolutely yet theists proclaim to know..why can they not see their inconsistency is dragging on the ground.
No doubt God will be ticked off with all their name dropping..and claims god was talking to me...imagine what lays in store for them..I bet god hates hypocrite s in his own loving way...bet they get two eternities is hell .perhaps more...
You wouldn't believe I twisted my ankle ..but after a night of imaging with my new second hand absolutely fantastic scope...so using the opportunity to talk science.
And given my family connections I must say that the old testament is ok but that new testament..all lies.
Alex
 
Seattle said:
He does work in mysterious ways but it is not for us to understand as he is too great for that.
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How convenient.. This is beyond the reach of science, so you might as well not even try and just "trust" in the :
He who works in mysterious ways, but it is not for us to understand as he is too great for that.

Just say a prayer and be assured He heard you, science be damned!!!!!

I find it remarkable that Penrose and Bohm receive derision for their "explanation of a universal sentience", while "He who is unknowable" is worshipped.
 
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SetiAlpha6 said:
I am thinking in terms of natural chemical processes before any seed or cell exists. Before the processes you are referring to in seeds and cells even exist.

Why are you bringing in seeds and cells as examples when neither of these would exist if there is no life anywhere on the Earth yet?

Where is the rebel base?
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What I am describing is how thermodynamics applies to ALL processes. It does not distinguish between living or non-living systems, and it does not prohibit ANY process involving local accumulations of order. According to thermodynamics, life arising naturally from non-life is just fine.
 
SetiAlpha6 said:
So is Abiogenesis in the theory or hypothesis arena?
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The latter. Abiogenesis is merely the name for the process, whatever it was, by which life appeared. It is just a placeholder. There is no scientific theory of abiogenesis yet, nor even any complete hypothesis. All we have are pieces of the jigsaw. It is one of the hardest problems outstanding in science. This is not surprising, since there is no fossil evidence. We have to work backwards from the biochemistry of life today plus what we think we know of the conditions on the early Earth, to conjecture how various elements of it could have arisen.

There is a lot of progress, but unless you understand some biochemistry you will probably not be able to appreciate it.

But we do have reason to think life started quite quickly after the formation of the Earth. It was formed about 4.5bn years ago and it looks as though life got started between 3.5 and 3 bn years ago.
 
SetiAlpha6 said:
Copied the following from a place on the internet...

”A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can be repeatedly tested and verified in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results.”

Why is it that a scientific theory can absolutely not meet this standard? But still be accepted anyway, sometimes for decades?
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It can’t - or not for long - and when I asked, you were unable to give me examples.

Why do you continue to make accusations against science that you cannot substantiate?
 
Anyone know what the Photo Upload limits are here?
I tried to upload a photo, but it was too large to go through.
 
SetiAlpha6 said:
I looked up Karl Popper and I will have to study his ideas more. What do you like about Karl Popper?
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It would do you good. His best known contribution to the philosophy of science is his statement that no theory in science is ever proved true, whereas any theory in science must be capable of being tested , and potentially falsified, by suitable observational evidence.

This is now pretty well universally accepted. It is very useful for distinguishing science from some kinds of pseudoscience, and from metaphysical speculations. Intelligent design, for instance, is pseudoscience because it makes no testable predictions.
 
exchemist said:
What I am describing is how thermodynamics applies to ALL processes. It does not distinguish between living or non-living systems, and it does not prohibit ANY process involving local accumulations of order. According to thermodynamics, life arising naturally from non-life is just fine.
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Ok, punt entropy, what natural process can create life?
 
SetiAlpha6 said:
Ok, punt entropy, what natural process can create life?
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If there were a worked out answer to that, then I would not have written post 134 as I did.

We are aware of processes that can produce some of the necessary components, but there is a very long way to go before your question will have a proper scientific answer. I don’t think we will have it for another century.
 
exchemist said:
If there were a worked out answer to that, then I would not have written post 134 as I did.

We are aware of processes that can produce some of the necessary components, but there is a very long way to go before your question will have a proper scientific answer. I don’t think we will have it for another century.
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That is about where I thought we were. So If someone tells me that Abiogenesis has been proven or is absolute, they are lying to me because there really is no evidence for it, or especially for how it happened.
 
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