Dear Identity Politics: please die.

[pjdude1219]

So you want us to lose, oh but you tried to help, but now they are getting electroshock at Pence's behest, so you have technically done nothing, noble but useless.

better than you who just want to tell them they don't matter. i want to win which means not throwing away people because you think their issues don't matter. liberals win when we help people.

pretending racism and sexism and bigotry don't exist and don't effect the elections is just naive. I want to win electric you want to lose because you more interested in tearing apart the liberal coalition to prove you have the biggest liberal dick of all. your only proving my point with your childish dick measuring. yeah tiassia here is to blame too but at least he isn't telling people to fuck off they don't matter. do you really think a couple of election cycles of your strategy won't cost us the black and hispanic vote because they tend to be the most religious do you really want to give them a reason to vote along those lines?

 

[ElectricFetus]

better than you who just want to tell them they don't matter.

Tell who doesn't matter? Transexuals, Blacks, Gays, oh they matter, just not as much as fixing the economy and winning the election to prevent the republicans from fucking transsexuals, blacks and gays (not in the fun way).

i want to win which means not throwing away people because you think their issues don't matter.

Throwing away what people? Did Bernie Sanders and Elizbeth Warran and Tulsi Gabbard, etc, say "fuck the transexuals, fuck the blacks, fuck the gays"? You seem to think it is one or the other here. All I'm saying it to get enough votes to win we need to make economic and politic reform our primary objective, of course we are going to get transexuals bathrooms, equal rights to gays, keep abortion, etc, but those are not the issues we can run on front and foremost and win.

liberals win when we help people.

How are we winning if we help no one and the republicans fuck them?

pretending racism and sexism and bigotry don't exist and don't effect the elections is just naive.

Complete strawman, blacks would not be voting 90% democrat if racism was not effecting the election.

I want to win electric you want to lose because you more interested in tearing apart the liberal coalition to prove you have the biggest liberal dick of all.

WTF? Your accusing me of virtue signalling? How am I tearing apart the liberal coalition? I'm not saying fuck the gays, fuck the blacks, I'm saying we need to make the priority issues ones that EVERYONE can agree on, so we can get MORE people in our "liberal coalition". so we can win back the government.

your only proving my point with your childish dick measuring. yeah tiassia here is to blame too but at least he isn't telling people to fuck off they don't matter.

Who am I telling to fuck off they don't matter?

do you really think a couple of election cycles of your strategy won't cost us the black and hispanic vote because they tend to be the most religious do you really want to give them a reason to vote along those lines?

What does religion have to do with progressive taxation and basic income garentee? And yes I would thing we would gain blacks and hispanics is we could have universal healthcare and basic income and higher wages, why the fuck do think blacks and Hispanics are not interested in those issues?

Here is an example of a bad idea about the direction we should go in:

 

[iceaura]

The goals reflect an approach to society and government that differ from some of those on offer in the larger world.

And align with others.

And he names those from which they differ, and is wrong. He denies alignment with those with which they align. And in doing so he repeats Fox News canards and wingnut tropes and familiar misrepresentations, attacks, disingenuous claims, etc, we have had plenty of repetition of from the propaganda operations of the Nameless Ones so recently victorious. (Examples: his rhetorical use of the transgender bathroom issue, denial of racism as a significant influence, and acceptance of the Nameless Ones's propaganda rebranding and renaming of "independent voters" and "alt-right" political figures).

Various plausible interpretations of this exist, including the obvious possibility (not my belief, but one clearly supported in some of the evidence - plausible ) that he is simply posting in bad faith. One of the items of evidence for this is his use of the term "we". I invite you to consider who in reality this "we" is, based on the totality of his posting.

In any case, I disagree. In my opinion he is posting sincerely, from genuine confusion and propaganda-abetted befuddlement - and that media influence is the central political issue facing the opposition to Trump. But either way, it wouldn't be the first time, eh?

 

[iceaura]

I'm not saying fuck the gays, fuck the blacks, I'm saying we need to make the priority issues ones that EVERYONE can agree on, so we can get MORE people in our "liberal coalition". so we can win back the government.

That's what we - people like me - have been doing since WWII. At one point we had - if I recall - more than 3/4 of the American public persuaded that single payer health care was a very good idea that should be adopted and enacted by the Federal government. It's still around 2/3 in the polling. On the issues, we own the country.

Here's a ten year old example of what people like me, the ones you want to kick out of the Democratic Party, have been pushing and saying all these years, (and note the venue, for a hint of how Trump won): http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/20/ivins.hillary/.

 

[ElectricFetus]

That's what we - people like me - have been doing since WWII. At one point we had - if I recall - more than 3/4 of the American public persuaded that single payer health care was a very good idea that should be adopted and enacted by the Federal government. It's still around 2/3 in the polling. On the issues, we own the country.

Here's a ten year old example of what people like me, the ones you want to kick out of the Democratic Party, have been pushing and saying all these years, (and note the venue, for a hint of how Trump won): http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/20/ivins.hillary/.

yes yes and then you go back to talking about how we need to deal with racism and sexism first. Hillary is a loser of no value , she could not even beat donald trump of all people, nor could she under Obama with full democratic control get single payer, the American people want more and they want candidates that promise more than water down moderation when it comes to economics. They don't want any candidates that are perceive to be "bought out".

 

[iceaura]

yes yes and then you go back to talking about how we need to deal with racism and sexism first.

You need to quit repeating that falsehood. Three corrections is enough. Find some other false claim to make about my posting, please.

nor could she under Obama with full democratic control get single payer,

There was no time of full Democratic control under Obama. There was no time under Obama when health care policy was among her responsibilities. And Clinton has always been opposed to promoting single payer legislation - she was instrumental in dismissing it from consideration back in 1993. It's not because she's weak that she doesn't battle for single payer - it's the other way around, if anything.

They don't want any candidates that are perceive to be "bought out".

Which brings us to the topic of "perception", which brings us to the rightwing media and the Nameless Ones propaganda operations.

Which is where you got that crap about "full Democratic control", Clinton supposedly failing in some attempt to get single payer health care, Clinton with her own agenda under Obama, and the like.

 

[pjdude1219]

please either learn how to read or quit playing at being this stupid. you can't seriously misunderstand the gist of my argument this badly unless your trying to just troll

Tell who doesn't matter? Transexuals, Blacks, Gays, oh they matter, just not as much as fixing the economy and winning the election to prevent the republicans from fucking transsexuals, blacks and gays (not in the fun way).



Throwing away what people? Did Bernie Sanders and Elizbeth Warran and Tulsi Gabbard, etc, say "fuck the transexuals, fuck the blacks, fuck the gays"? You seem to think it is one or the other here. All I'm saying it to get enough votes to win we need to make economic and politic reform our primary objective, of course we are going to get transexuals bathrooms, equal rights to gays, keep abortion, etc, but those are not the issues we can run on front and foremost and win.



How are we winning if we help no one and the republicans fuck them?



Complete strawman, blacks would not be voting 90% democrat if racism was not effecting the election.



WTF? Your accusing me of virtue signalling? How am I tearing apart the liberal coalition? I'm not saying fuck the gays, fuck the blacks, I'm saying we need to make the priority issues ones that EVERYONE can agree on, so we can get MORE people in our "liberal coalition". so we can win back the government.



Who am I telling to fuck off they don't matter?

everyone who isn't white and straight. That the issues you want as a straight white person are more important than those of those who aren't white or straight. also we don't win the issues you want to push we win the ones your whining about. and the difference between you and sanders and warren and i'm assuming gabbard is none of them are saying we should put minorities human rights on the back burner which you are. they want to hold all of liberal principles as equally valuable. were not losing because we are helping the disenfrachised were losing cause people like you and tiassa think blaming different groups in the liberal coalition is the reason we are losing because it creates disillusionment. thats how you tearing it apart you want to play the different groups against each other and make the minorities subserviant client voters who get nothing because unless we fix the hate a rising tide won't lift all boats its gonna drown some people.

What does religion have to do with progressive taxation and basic income garentee? And yes I would thing we would gain blacks and hispanics is we could have universal healthcare and basic income and higher wages, why the fuck do think blacks and Hispanics are not interested in those issues?

ok let me see if i can dumb it down any further for you. these to groups are very religious but tend to vote liberal because we tend to you know advocate for them not to be killed and abused. because of their religious beliefs they tend to be more socially conservative. if we take away their reason for voting liberal, ie we are trying to prevent them from being killed and abused, they will vote along other lines their religion because that plays the largest part of their political identity outside of the civil rights movement. the hispanic vote tends to be very split all ready because of this. being viewed as turning on them will drive them away. these aren't difficult concepts.

 

[ElectricFetus]

everyone who isn't white and straight. That the issues you want as a straight white person are more important than those of those who aren't white or straight.

You assume to much of me. Are you telling me blacks, gays, etc, don't want single payer, higher wages, cheaper education, more infrastructure paid for by taxing the rich?

everyone who isn't white and straight. That the issues you want as a straight white person are more important than those of those who aren't white or straight. also we don't win the issues you want to push we win the ones your whining about. and the difference between you and sanders and warren and i'm assuming gabbard is none of them are saying we should put minorities human rights on the back burner which you are.

How about you listen to them, they talk about economics and political corruption MOSTLY, so yeah they know what most Americans want.

they want to hold all of liberal principles as equally valuable. were not losing because we are helping the disenfrachised were losing cause people like you and tiassa think blaming different groups in the liberal coalition is the reason we are losing because it creates disillusionment. thats how you tearing it apart you want to play the different groups against each other and make the minorities subserviant client voters who get nothing because unless we fix the hate a rising tide won't lift all boats its gonna drown some people.

What groups do I want the play against each other? How is raising the minimum wage for example going to "drown some people", how is it making a minority group subserviant?

[/QUOTE]ok let me see if i can dumb it down any further for you. these to groups are very religious but tend to vote liberal because we tend to you know advocate for them not to be killed and abused. because of their religious beliefs they tend to be more socially conservative. if we take away their reason for voting liberal, ie we are trying to prevent them from being killed and abused, they will vote along other lines their religion because that plays the largest part of their political identity outside of the civil rights movement. the hispanic vote tends to be very split all ready because of this. being viewed as turning on them will drive them away. these aren't difficult concepts.[/QUOTE]

Back to the question above: how is raising the minimum wage turning on the Hispanics?