Crop Circles: A Scientific Research

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apendrapew said:
Crop circles are very interesting if one does a significant amount of real research. I did not expect that at all. For the most part, crop circles are still a mystery.
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I have also done a fair bit of research on this subject although I have been a bit more critical of the evidence. I do not believe that there is anything mysterious happening here. Just the human need to believe in the fantastic.

apendrapew said:
Based on books and articles I've read, there are supposedly two different classes of crop circles:

- crop circles that are hoaxes (made by what are known as Circle Fakers -- people who create the circles with boards and rope)
- and crop circles that are genuine (made by what are known as Circle Makers -- don't know who or what they are)
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This is confusing as the best known group of 'circle fakers' are the circle makers. http://www.circlemakers.org/


apendrapew said:
There are many differences between those two kinds of crop circles, but the most obvious difference is quality and mathematical precision.

The faked circles are much less precise and the stalks are usually snapped at the bottom. They can take hours to produce.
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A problem here is that we don't have any genuine, verified, real crop circles to make comparisons with. I have heard many stories of hoaxed circles that were declared real. But it is hard to verify these because circle makers don't tend to advertise their work.

Unfortunately most of the reseach in crop circles seems to be done by people who don't tend to think critically.

The altered nodes thing is a good example where people are going for an amazing theory over the mundane. I have seen a plant expert explain that elongated nodes are exactly what you would expect to see on a plant that has been bent and then continued to grow a little.


apendrapew said:
Genuine crop circles are perfect, laser sharp.
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From what I have read, the claims of 'perfect, laser sharp' circles are from people who want to believe in the mystical too much and underestimate what clever humans can do. I would like to see one of these circles though.

apendrapew said:
Edges of patterns often cut down to only one stalk, which clearly couldn't be done with boards and rope.
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Not sure what you mean by this.

apendrapew said:
Analyses of the circles indicate a presence of intense heat and radiation.
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My understanding is that no actual radiation or heat has been detected. This is just the theory to explain the changes in the plants.


apendrapew said:
Other evidence suggests that genuine crop circles are created in seconds, not hours.
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There have been eyewitness reports of this. Testimonial evidence is unreliable. Is there other evidence to support this?

apendrapew said:
I remember reading about one documented case at Stone Henge where a group of tourists were visiting. They had seen the whole area, and looking back another minute, a whole friggin' crop circle had materialized right before them. Let me see if I can find it. Yeah, here it is: Bam!
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The description of that event in the documentary I watched explained that people who saw the whole area were in a plane. It was suggested that they may have missed the circle the first time because they were busy looking at stonehenge.

apendrapew said:
Also, some crop circles are created in areas where the stalks are so thick and sturdy that it would be nearly impossible to trample with boards.
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Hmm first I have heard of that. Do you have any examples? I would not underestimate the circle makers.

apendrapew said:
The vast majority of crop circles are genuine -- there are so many of them.
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Unlikely. Think about the history of crop circles. Since gaining media attention there were many more of them. They became more and more complex as the hoxers got better at it. The movie Signs was released then suddenly there was a minor resurgence. There certainly seemed to be more than ever in the US. If it is a natural phenomenom why does it only happen over crops? Why not in our front yards? Soccer fields ect? Why would crop circles be in some countries but not others?

No it seems to have all the characteristics of sneaky humans.


apendrapew said:
I've read that more than half of all crop circles in the world are found in Great Britain.

Crop circles are in no way satisfactorily explained. Which is unsettling considering the magnitude of the phenomenon.
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I disagree.

Interesting Csicop article. It mentions the blt research results.
http://www.csicop.org/si/2002-09/crop-circles.html
 
Where are the photographs of the half-finished ones, or ones the hoaxers (???) messed up.

Many of them are gigantic and appear overnight, so if they were really made by blokes running around in the dark with ropes and boards, you'd imagine that with such complex designs there should be more botched or half completed ones than perfect ones.
 
Give people more credit. They plan these things meticulously, and half finished ones, well, hardly anyone takes pictures of them/reports them because they don't look as good. It's a form of art.
 
Hamster, I'm sure people would report half-finished ones. Why wouldn't they?
 
Carcano said:
Where are the photographs of the half-finished ones, or ones the hoaxers (???) messed up.

Many of them are gigantic and appear overnight, so if they were really made by blokes running around in the dark with ropes and boards, you'd imagine that with such complex designs there should be more botched or half completed ones than perfect ones.
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Hey, point that Carcano somewhere else, okay? :p

People are going to hate hearing this, but I read a very convincing story that ol' Doug and Dave, the two pubsters with the boards who claimed to have been responsible for the crop circle phenomenon were actually paid by a private party to make that claim.
 
I believe that certainly many of them are done by humanoids. Homo sapiens. I'm not so sure about all of them though.
 
Giambattista said:
People are going to hate hearing this, but I read a very convincing story that ol' Doug and Dave, the two pubsters with the boards who claimed to have been responsible for the crop circle phenomenon were actually paid by a private party to make that claim.
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And who could this private party be other than a government agency...
http://cropcircles.net/cia.htm
 
I feel that the human crop circle makers have poisened the well, so to speak. The one's that are "genuine" are layed down in a different fashion than the human ones. I think they reference the seeds being sucked out or something wierd. All you'd have to do is examine one that you saw made by people, examine the stalks and compare it to ones you don't think people could have made.

But even then it'd still be wierd. We can't hypothesis alien space craft doing this, anymore than we can hypothesis spirits rising from the dead doing this.

Although the alien hypothesis is fun. :D
 
TruthSeeker said:
So... what would you suggest, btimsah?
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I don't know! I guess if someone put a gun to my head and forced me to decide I'd say that there is too much of a chance they could be fakes to suggest anything grand.

Unless, as I said, someone could PROVE the difference between fakes and real ones. If there is such a thing as a real one. I'm not a crop circle guy. I'm the, "there's-an-alien-base-on-the-moon-conpiracy-theorist". :D
 
btimsah said:
I don't know! I guess if someone put a gun to my head and forced me to decide I'd say that there is too much of a chance they could be fakes to suggest anything grand.
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Could happen. The CIA and FBI do it all the time.... :D

Unless, as I said, someone could PROVE the difference between fakes and real ones. If there is such a thing as a real one. I'm not a crop circle guy. I'm the, "there's-an-alien-base-on-the-moon-conpiracy-theorist".
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And I am the "there-was-no-moon-landing-conspiracy-theorist" kind of guy. So looks like we have something in common... :D

Yaba Daba! :m:
 
Carcano said:
And who could this private party be other than a government agency...
http://cropcircles.net/cia.htm
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Actually, a reliable UK crop circle investigator (if memory serves) had evidence that it was the British equivalent MI..#

Maybe you would have some luck looking it up? Report your findings straight to this thread!

HA HA HA HA!!!!
I believe that's the exact interview I had read.
Either memory served wrong, or I didn't bother looking at that link until after the fact. Well, I got the UK part right, didn't I. No Alzheimers yet!
 
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btimsah said:
I feel that the human crop circle makers have poisened the well, so to speak.
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If what I just said is true about the two old men, then they were poisoned INTENTIONALLY, just like UFO sightings are attributed to military black projects which are used as covers for OTHER projects, and in turn are covered up by still more projects, so you never know which one is the ULTRA REALLY secret project, and which one is merely the secret project.

A hall of mirrors. No map. Good luck!
 
btimsah said:
Unless, as I said, someone could PROVE the difference between fakes and real ones.
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People have notice biological changes (mutations?) in the crops of what are thought to be genuinely non-human manufactured circles.
Magnetic anomalies have been noted, as well as physiological effects reported by people upon entering these apparently "REAL" circles.

Anyone have some info on the apparent microwave radiation effects on the wheat stalks? Or the physical sensations people have had, or the adverse reactions by animals to the flattened crops?

Orbs of light seen in the vicinity?
 
Giambattista said:
People have notice biological changes (mutations?) in the crops of what are thought to be genuinely non-human manufactured circles.
Magnetic anomalies have been noted, as well as physiological effects reported by people upon entering these apparently "REAL" circles.

Anyone have some info on the apparent microwave radiation effects on the wheat stalks? Or the physical sensations people have had, or the adverse reactions by animals to the flattened crops?

Orbs of light seen in the vicinity?
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OK, that's about enough of this foolishness! Time for me to take off my obligatory professor's suit and tie and put on my marine biologist's working clothes - jeans and white T-shirt.

This isn't so much directed at you, Giambattista, as it is the people who have written the kinds of things you've read and repeated here.

This is what happens all too often when people with just a bare minimum of scientific knowledge (and the right impressive words) take it upon themselves to talk about things of which they really know nothing at all!

Biological changes?? Mutations?!?! How stupid can people actually be? Such things cannot occur just overnight (the time it takes for a crop circle to appear)! And mutations in particular!! Do not these idiots understand that for mutations to appear would require the seeds to mature, sprout and produce new plants (another generation)? And that takes weeks if not months. In other words such observations have never been made.

"Effects of microwave radiation" is another pile of rubbish. Do you even have a clue what the effects of microwave radiation are on a living plant? Obviously not in the least. Here's what would really happen: the plants would wilt and become somewhat dehydrated. Period.

This whole topic belongs in a pseudo-science forum and has no place here in the General Science and Technology forum.
 
Light said:
Biological changes?? Mutations?!?! How stupid can people actually be? Such things cannot occur just overnight (the time it takes for a crop circle to appear)! And mutations in particular!! Do not these idiots understand that for mutations to appear would require the seeds to mature, sprout and produce new plants (another generation)? And that takes weeks if not months. In other words such observations have never been made.
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That's silly, Light. Have you ever heard of "cancer"? :bugeye:

This whole topic belongs in a pseudo-science forum and has no place here in the General Science and Technology forum.
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If they bable around and don't produce any evidence, then I agree.
The thing that most displeased me in this thread so far is someone mentioning a video of a crop circle being made by supposedly ETS and no links or anything to the video..... :(

I never intended this thread to just go on like this. People need to come up with some evidence one way or the other.
 
TruthSeeker said:
That's silly, Light. Have you ever heard of "cancer"? :bugeye:
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Are you actually serious? We're talking about plants, remember? And cancer isn't a mutation, it's simply (and I use that word lightly) runaway reproduction.

If they bable around and don't produce any evidence, then I agree.
The thing that most displeased me in this thread so far is someone mentioning a video of a crop circle being made by supposedly ETS and no links or anything to the video..... :(

I never intended this thread to just go on like this. People need to come up with some evidence one way or the other.
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On that point we agree. :)

Which leads me to think that the whole thing is a hoax and the people "researching" them (not you) simply don't know what they are doing. They are no better than ghost chasers in my opinion. Always looking but really producing nothing but their own unfounded speculations.
 
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