Controversial AZ Immigration Bill is now Law

On the other hand, Arizona has a real and immediate problem with crimes being perpetrated by Mexicans. And it's VERY bad.

Meanwhile, Arizona is about to get anally raped... economically speaking. The ACLU, MoveOn.org and quite a few other civil rights organizations are already calling for an economic boycott of Arizona as a response to this new and completely unconstitutional law.

Arizona is a gun-happy, right-wing and racist shithole. I've been there several times and I wouldn't live there if you paid me. If you live there, you might want to pack your bags soon.
 
Ganymede said:
It's actually very easy to circumvent the very system you're using. In California, an illegal can purchase real birth certificates of American citizens and use that to attain a drivers license, and other legal documents.
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Yep, it happens all of the time here. However if employers did the checks that they should it's very easy to spot fraud. A driver's license is not proof of citizenship, only a social security card or passport, it says that on every job application in the state. Illegal immigrants who obtain fake or fraudulent social security numbers should red flag almost immediately. My father's company ran background checks on 3 of their new hires and found that their social security numbers belonged to a 2 year old and two dead people, obviously not their own social security numbers. But more often than not people know they are hiring illegal immigrants and just turn a blind eye because it saves them oodles of cash and the penalties are virtually nonexistent (unenforced). Even if the employer manages to get off claiming they were completely unaware of their employees' citizenship status, they might still find it worth their while to do the checks they should just so they wouldn't have to hassle with the court process.
 
all well and fine... but a great deal of these jobs the illegals are working at are jobs that gringos don't want to do
 
cleaning hotel rooms.. working in lettuce field ... grunt work...etc.
Yes they have bagged some good construction jobs too, a lot of that is in part to busting all the unions up...btw i hate unions it protects the slackers who have high seniority and don't feel they have to work any longer.

Yes they are here illegally .. not like US citizens don't commit crimes.

The vast majority of them are good, honest, hardworking and NICE people.

They want the same things that most everyone else wants .. to provide a good live for their families.

You can't judge the whole lot because of a few bad apples..unless you want to say all white people are Jeffrey Dahmer, Tex Watson...etc.
 
PieAreSquared said:
Yes they are here illegally .. not like US citizens don't commit crimes.
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True, I don't see how the fact they commit crimes is really that big of an issue. I'd much rather focus on the fact that they're getting jobs and not paying taxes.

The vast majority of them are good, honest, hardworking and NICE people.
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Eh, i'd say some of them are. I knew a few. They were very good friends, and nice people. But there are those few bad eggs.

You can't judge the whole lot because of a few bad apples..unless you want to say all white people are Jeffrey Dahmer, Tex Watson...etc.
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Yeah it's like saying all Germans are Nazis.
 
Ganymede said:
That law is already on the books however they rarely enforce it. If they did, everyone would be going to jail. Almost every corporation I've worked for the janitorial staff could barely speak any english. Now I'm positive those folks didn't wait 10+ years to become naturalized citizens. It's very easy in California to get fake legal documents that will allow you to get a job. So it's hard to prosecute the employers because most of the working illegals have these fraudulent documents.
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Well then they should make it much harder to generate counterfeits! Personally I don't think the businesses even go as far as to process paperwork, when a contractor swings by Home Depot to pick up cheap labors I doubt he processes any paperwork.
 
WillNever said:
Arizona is a gun-happy, right-wing and racist shit hole. I've been there several times and I wouldn't live there if you paid me. If you live there, you might want to pack your bags soon.
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So you're saying it is just For California to block business trade with Arizona because you just personally don't like them?

And because you have a personal grudge against Arizona it is OK for other Americans to stop all trade with them, when all there doing is setting laws for there own state?

Dude thats not right and if California does, the rest of the USA should Put trade Sanctions On California.
 
soullust said:
So you're saying it is just For California to block business trade with Arizona because you just personally don't like them?

And because you have a personal grudge against Arizona it is OK for other Americans to stop all trade with them, when all there doing is setting laws for there own state?

Dude thats not right and if California does, the rest of the USA should Put trade Sanctions On California.
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:bravo: I don't see any sense in putting trade sanctions on Arizona because of their opinions. That doesn't seem like a good decision in a Republic, in which peoples opinions matter. If they want to do it, I say let them, it's their state.
 
Yeah bro, i don't know how, some people really and truly think it is all right for Cali to even threaten to do this.
 
this law will probably get overturned or repealed. Hell the MLBPA is involved in getting rid of this filthy law.
 
pjdude1219 said:
this law will probably get overturned or repealed. Hell the MLBPA is involved in getting rid of this filthy law.
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You think that the current makeup of the SCOTUS is going to overturn this? Really? The FBI already uses profiling as a standard for investigation and it's held up in court for eons. What makes you think it'll be thrown out, especially now that AZ is adjusting the law to make "profiling" a bit more restrictive. One has to prove harm in a court of law. Potential harm is not something that can be tried in court.

~String
 
how facinating that those who call random breath testing "police harrasment" even though by definition it targets EVERYONE who happens to drive down road x, who insist the police use silly and inacurate "walk in a straight line" tests rather than objective and acurate breath and saliva tests because thats "unreasonable search and sizure" are the very people infavor of these laws. love the hypocrates
 
superstring01 said:
You think that the current makeup of the SCOTUS is going to overturn this? Really? The FBI already uses profiling as a standard for investigation and it's held up in court for eons. What makes you think it'll be thrown out, especially now that AZ is adjusting the law to make "profiling" a bit more restrictive. One has to prove harm in a court of law. Potential harm is not something that can be tried in court.

~String
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it will get repealed long before it gets before the SCOTUS. the MLB is going to put pressure on them and it will get repealed. their not going to chance losing the 100 of millions of dollars the diamondbacks make for the state.
 
superstring01 said:
You think that the current makeup of the SCOTUS is going to overturn this? Really? The FBI already uses profiling as a standard for investigation and it's held up in court for eons. What makes you think it'll be thrown out, especially now that AZ is adjusting the law to make "profiling" a bit more restrictive. One has to prove harm in a court of law. Potential harm is not something that can be tried in court.

~String
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It isn't the profiling that makes it likely to be struck down as unconstitutional, it's that the States have no power (even in the absence of federal action) to pass laws that interfere with the federal governments exclusive power to conduct foreign relations, which arresting foreigners specifically for being foreign does seem to impact.

It's called the "dormant foreign affairs" or "dormant foreign relations" doctrine."

From the Supreme Court's web site:

It was not until 1968, however, that the Court applied the general principle to invalidate a state law for impinging on the nation’s foreign policy interests in the absence of an established federal policy. In Zschernig v. Miller, the Court invalidated an Oregon escheat law that operated to prevent inheritance by citizens of Communist countries. The law conditioned inheritance by non-resident aliens on a showing that U.S. citizens would be allowed to inherit estates in the alien’s country, and that the alien heir would be allowed to receive payments from the Oregon estate “without confiscation.” Although a Justice Department amicus brief asserted that application of the Oregon law in this one case would not cause any “undu[e] interfer[ence] with the United States’ conduct of foreign relations,” the Court saw a “persistent and subtle” effect on international relations stemming from the “notorious” practice of state probate courts in denying payments to persons from Communist countries.
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http://supreme.justia.com/constitution/article-2/26-dormant-foreign-relations.html
 
Pandaemoni said:
It isn't the profiling that makes it likely to be struck down as unconstitutional, it's that the States have no power (even in the absence of federal action) to pass laws that interfere with the federal governments exclusive power to conduct foreign relations, which arresting foreigners specifically for being foreign does seem to impact.
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Incorrect.

The state of AZ is not interfering with the federal government's conduct of foreign affairs. Once the individual crosses into Arizona, the state is allowed--and indeed is obligated--to enforce federal and state laws. Verifying that a person is legally present in the USA is not an international action.

~String
 
pjdude1219 said:
it will get repealed long before it gets before the SCOTUS. the MLB is going to put pressure on them and it will get repealed. their not going to chance losing the 100 of millions of dollars the diamondbacks make for the state.
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The law is supported by 7 out of 8 Arizona citizens. Who is going to repeal it? Such an act would require a re-vote in both houses AND for the governor to sign that act into law. You think that professional baseball is going to cause a state to alter a law?

~String
 
Giambattista said:
Who stopped all the assassination attempts before that?...
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W. By allowing security to do their jobs.

superstring01 said:
You and I didn't, but a great number of our ancestors did. People were systematically exterminated and forced from their land.... ~String
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We are not responsible for the sins of our fathers. We owe no men anything. This is 2010. We do owe our citizens enforcement of our laws. Letting all the criminal aliens in here to trash this country is criminal. ANYONE involved in aiding/abetting a criminal alien should be punished. Harshly.

PieAreSquared said:
..The vast majority of them are good, honest, hardworking and NICE people.They want the same things that most everyone else wants .. to provide a good live for their families.
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No, they're not and they have proven they're not. Most are here to steal, kill and destroy. Like Satan. They steal ID's, SS#'s, jobs, education, welfare etc. They have killed more innocent Americans DUI than the war in Iraq. They have destroyed housing by being the first/majority to stop paying their (illegally-obtained) mortgages. They destroy neighborhoods, schools, hospitals and everywhere they go/everything they touch. Most are single men who come here and live like animals. They send most of their money back to MX and suck this country dry. I support shoot-to-kill at the border. It has gotten that bad.
 
superstring01 said:
The law is supported by 7 out of 8 Arizona citizens. Who is going to repeal it? Such an act would require a re-vote in both houses AND for the governor to sign that act into law. You think that professional baseball is going to cause a state to alter a law?

~String
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Money always tells. we are talking about the loss of millions of dollars of revenue for the state and that's just the MLB, other businesses also have reason to avoid arizona. also there is a strong measure to put it on referendum.
 
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