Controversial AZ Immigration Bill is now Law

clusteringflux said:
I don't get the "show me your papers" hype. Doesn't everyone have to show papers?
If I drive, I have to have a legal license , a vehicle registration and proof of current insurance all of which are papers requiring other papers to be obtained.W/ out those papers I will be fined and in some cases have the vehicle impounded and be jailed. If my business wants to operate or get a loan, there'a a mountain of papers that need to be verified. Use a credit card or buy a fucking pack of cigarettes, I have to show my ID or "papers"..All of which is to show I'm in compliance of the law.

My question is what makes this different? Is AZ different than Ohio, and everyone just trusts the word of everyone else?
Obviously, it's a reference to Nazism, as if AZ is giving the police a right to kill the undocumented people. Where is the parallel, cuz it's lost on me?
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your driving down the road all the sudden lights flick on you pull over.. why did you pull over sir. because your not white now show me your papers. if you dont have a problem with this im not sure wha to say. you can be pulled over now just because of the color of your skin you could be compliant with every single law yet your not white so you got pulled over.

i wonder how many lawsuites are going to come out of this
 
Cops have random check points all of the time here, they don't need a reason. Besides, I think you're confused about what the law actually says.
 
Here's the Bill if you'd like to read it. I didn't see any reference to color, white ,brown or otherwise.

http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/04/16/AzSB1070.pdf

and again, it's been said to be like Nazi tactics.. How? The laws are already in place, but not enforced so who are the Nazis? ...the Feds who made the laws originally?
..And how is being sent to immigration for deportation the same as mass murder anyway?
 
clusteringflux said:
I don't get the "show me your papers" hype. Doesn't everyone have to show papers?
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Not without some kind of cause - all that's required for this one is that a cop "suspects" you might be in the country illegaly.

clusteringflux said:
If I drive, I have to have a legal license , a vehicle registration and proof of current insurance all of which are papers requiring other papers to be obtained.W/ out those papers I will be fined and in some cases have the vehicle impounded and be jailed. If my business wants to operate or get a loan, there'a a mountain of papers that need to be verified. Use a credit card or buy a fucking pack of cigarettes, I have to show my ID or "papers"..All of which is to show I'm in compliance of the law.
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But not if you just want to walk down the street, go about your daily life, etc.

When was the last time a cop stopped you on the street and demanded to see your papers? Have you ever, once, had to seriously contemplate the prospect that you would be arrested simply for being outside without your ID on your person, purely on the suspicions of a cop?

clusteringflux said:
My question is what makes this different?
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See above. That you have to show ID to buy a beer is not the same thing as having to carry ID at all times under threat of arrest and deportation.
 
Thanks for the bill. Look at 11-1051-B
FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).
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Shorter: "If an officer lawfully makes eye contact with you, he can request your INS records."
-- It references 8 USC § 1373(c)
The Immigration and Naturalization Service shall respond to an inquiry by a Federal, State, or local government agency, seeking to verify or ascertain the citizenship or immigration status of any individual within the jurisdiction of the agency for any purpose authorized by law, by providing the requested verification or status information.
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http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_00001373----000-.html

So if you are in AZ, the Feds will look up your immigration records. Hundreds of millions of US Citizens have no immigration records, however. The Feds require the states be sane, AZ's craven politicians require that the Feds be the ones to put brakes on AZ.
 
quadro said:
So, who should we really be favoring here? Americans who couldn't even be bothered to complete the free education we paid to give them (and so have no valuable skills, or work ethic, or anyway sufficiently stable lives to handle even laughably easy stuff like high school)?
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Yes.

A lot of them are black, for another factor. The class of people involved is not just dropouts and similar, for another. And the ripple effects spread - as far up as the benefits trickle down.

There is a moral erosion involved, in having one's "menial" work done by a certain class of designated menial people. One loses respect for the work and the people simultaneously.

Degrading the base of the economy can benefit the upper tiers, but it's not a good structural setup for the fans of democracy and stuff like that.

And the safety valve effect, helping to preserve a Mexican government that would have been replaced long ago without the crutch, has done no one any good on that side of the border either.
clustering said:
If I drive, I have to have a legal license , a vehicle registration and proof of current insurance all of which are papers requiring other papers to be obtained.
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You don't have to show the personal papers unless the cop has cause to pull you over.

And you won't be arrested for not having them - going downtown in handcuffs for forgetting your wallet in your other pants is not something that happens to white people in the US.
 
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iceaura said:
There is a moral erosion involved, in having one's "menial" work done by a certain class of designated menial people. One loses respect for the work and the people simultaneously.

Degrading the base of the economy can benefit the upper tiers, but it's not a good structural setup for the fans of democracy and stuff like that.
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I tend to agree - and my chosen solution is to incorporate the workers into society fully, rather than maintaining them as an illegal underclass (which can be openly oppressed and victimized).

That bit of rhetoric was intended to provoke thought amongst types who are, in other contexts, notably given to rhetoric about the impropriety of rewarding "the lazy" on the backs of "the hard working" through government intervention in markets. It was not intended as a call to debase the low end of American workers in favor of continued reliance on illegal immigrants.

iceaura said:
And the safety valve effect, helping to preserve a Mexican government that would have been replaced long ago without the crutch, has done no one any good on that side of the border either.
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Possibly true, but if we're going to go down that road we'd have to consider that a lot of the pressure driving the valve is itself a result of other US policies (NAFTA and farm subsidies not least among them). So I don't really see the goal of fomenting revolution in Mexico as a valid consideration in our immigration policy.
 
quadro said:
So I don't really see the goal of fomenting revolution in Mexico as a valid consideration in our immigration policy.
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Well if you're going to put it that way - - --
 
I get outraged when I see these parasites demanding rights. Fck them. Let them go back to their own countries and demand rights. They are having big rallies all over the country Saturday. I hope ICE goes in with one fell swoop, catches all of them and deports their criminal asses back to Hell or wherever they came from. There are very few things that enrage me. Criminal aliens are near the top of my list.
 
PieAreSquared said:
spoken like a true xian.....fuck them.. JC is proud of the mouth you use to praise him
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True Christians obey our laws. True Christians want others to obey our laws, too. True Christians are patriots and do not want these parasites taking over our country. Jesus does not care if I abbreviate swear words. Stupid little manmade words mean nothing to Him. He loves me no matter what I say/do. That's the cool thing about "JC". You don't earn His love. He is perfect. I am not.
Meanwhile I stand on my post. We should deport ALL criminal aliens. Yesterday.
 
sandy said:
True Christians obey our laws. True Christians want others to obey our laws, too. True Christians are patriots and do not want these parasites taking over our country. Jesus does not care if I abbreviate swear words. Stupid little manmade words mean nothing to Him. He loves me no matter what I say/do. That's the cool thing about "JC". You don't earn His love. He is perfect. I am not.
Meanwhile I stand on my post. We should deport ALL criminal aliens. Yesterday.
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hmmm a verse comes to mind ... but hey those are man made words too

you prolly don't know the verse.. you mouth being a witness

but show otherwise

as far as me calling you on it.. there's a verse for that too ;)
 
clusteringflux said:
Cops have random check points all of the time here, they don't need a reason. Besides, I think you're confused about what the law actually says.
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Yes, and I don't think they're very constitutional... it is little more than law enforcement writing warrants on the fly at random in order to gain access to anyone's property they choose.

Of course, "freedom loving" suckers of Bushdick having been rejoicing that the Oxymoron Act AKA "Patriot" allows just such issuance of warrants for any cause under the sun.
 
.....Where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the united states, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person.
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Reasonable suspicion of illegal activity is all that any cop needs at anytime to question anyone, anywhere..and yes, if it's suspected that youre breaking the law and you cannot prove otherwise you go to jail until they figure it out.. No difference, guys. none.

I wouldn't doubt that many immigrants that are here legally are pleased that someone is willing to acknowledge their accomplishment and essentially stand up for them.
 
sandy said:
I get outraged when I see these parasites demanding rights. Fck them. Let them go back to their own countries and demand rights. They are having big rallies all over the country Saturday. I hope ICE goes in with one fell swoop, catches all of them and deports their criminal asses back to Hell or wherever they came from. There are very few things that enrage me. Criminal aliens are near the top of my list.
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so does that mean i get to say fck americans and to go back to spain? your forgetting that WE STOLE this land it was never ours we just forcefully took it from the natives. so maby go back to the holy land? this isnt our land keep that in mind when you make thoes huge racist sweeping statements

hell part of this country belonged to mexico before we just came in and took it. they just want back whats rightfully theres so i this case sandy wouldnt you be the criminal alien?
 
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