Black Hole Theory

[livingin360]

I was thinking what if we are in a black hole and black holes form within black holes and new universes are born within black holes and the matter is infinitely iterated? If that was the case though it would stop at one point but maybe matter is infinite. If matter is infinite then its just a infinite iteration but each iteration hits a end. If we are in a black hole though how could we find the opening to the black hole that we are in? Would we see the light from the other side? These are my internal ramblings on a potential theory of black holes. If all matter seperates and is broken apart the matter on the other side would be just like the matter was in ours at the beginning of the universe if im correct?

 

[cosmictraveler]

If all matter seperates and is broken apart the matter on the other side would be just like the matter was in ours at the beginning of the universe if im correct?

But what if the black hole is only like a garbage disposer and just annihilates everything into nothing sized particles and traps them inside until it gets to full then it explodes as a ultra nova?

 

[James R]

We're not in a black hole. Anything in a black hole must move constantly towards the singularity. Time and space inside black holes do all sorts of funny things.

 

[Gravage]

We're not in a black hole. Anything in a black hole must move constantly towards the singularity. Time and space inside black holes do all sorts of funny things.

Not to mention, life would never evolve. In a black hole you only have sub-atomic particles that MIGHT survive the most extreme gravity. No life-no humans.
In the black hole area there are the most extreme conditions in entire universe, where none and nothing can survive.

 

[CptBork]

Actually Sean Carroll (famous for his GR textbook) has been promoting such ideas, I've seen him talking about it in person. Many like-minded cosmologists believe it may indeed be possible for infinitely large universes to be born inside black holes, and black holes inside such universes could give birth to more universes still. I imagine it requires modifications to General Relativity such as attempts to account for quantum effects, and perhaps it goes even deeper than that. It's all purely speculative though, and I think cosmologists are waiting for someone to discover a working unified field theory before they put a serious effort into addressing these kinds of questions.

 

[cosmictraveler]

Then why do black hole go ultra nova destroying themselves and everything within 1000 light years? :shrug:

 

[CptBork]

Then why do black hole go ultra nova destroying themselves and everything within 1000 light years? :shrug:

Who says they do? If you're talking about the birth of a new universe, the theory is that the new universe would be contained inside a possibly infinite pocket of newly-created spacetime which itself would be contained inside the black hole's event horizon.

 

[cosmictraveler]

Who says they do? If you're talking about the birth of a new universe, the theory is that the new universe would be contained inside a possibly infinite pocket of newly-created spacetime which itself would be contained inside the black hole's event horizon.

This leads to a runaway process and to a final, gigantic flash of energy in which the black hole evaporates." Not sure how much energy would be released in the final moments, but I know one theory about gamma-ray bursts that are sometimes detected is that they are the signatures of small "primordial black holes" created in the big bang which are just evaporating now.

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?fo...t=this paper&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13267223501434

 

[CptBork]

This leads to a runaway process and to a final, gigantic flash of energy in which the black hole evaporates." Not sure how much energy would be released in the final moments, but I know one theory about gamma-ray bursts that are sometimes detected is that they are the signatures of small "primordial black holes" created in the big bang which are just evaporating now.

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?fo...t=this paper&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13267223501434

How can you say for certain? How do you define the energy of a baby universe created inside a black hole, if we're not even sure whether negative energy does or doesn't exist? How do we know that a finite lifetime as seen by an external observer couldn't correspond to an infinite lifetime as seen on the inside? It's all speculation at this point, the only theories we can rule out are those which contradict themselves in some fashion.

 

[OnlyMe]

Actually Sean Carroll (famous for his GR textbook) has been promoting such ideas, I've seen him talking about it in person. Many like-minded cosmologists believe it may indeed be possible for infinitely large universes to be born inside black holes, and black holes inside such universes could give birth to more universes still. I imagine it requires modifications to General Relativity such as attempts to account for quantum effects, and perhaps it goes even deeper than that. It's all purely speculative though, and I think cosmologists are waiting for someone to discover a working unified field theory before they put a serious effort into addressing these kinds of questions.

Even scientists, including physists, are allowed to have fertile imaginations.

 

[Gravage]

How can you say for certain? How do you define the energy of a baby universe created inside a black hole, if we're not even sure whether negative energy does or doesn't exist? How do we know that a finite lifetime as seen by an external observer couldn't correspond to an infinite lifetime as seen on the inside? It's all speculation at this point, the only theories we can rule out are those which contradict themselves in some fashion.

When you're inside there are only sub-atomic particles that can exist (perhaps), maybe not even that, there are simply no conditions in which life could evolve. No known laws of physics can "survive" inside the black hole-they are totally different from the rest of the universe, and we do know, that the laws of physics in our universe enabled to create conditions for life to evolve, in a black hole there are not such laws of physics compatible to our own universe.

 

[Boris2]

No known laws of physics can "survive" inside the black hole-they are totally different from the rest of the universe, and we do know, that the laws of physics in our universe enabled to create conditions for life to evolve, in a black hole there are not such laws of physics compatible to our own universe.

we have relativity to explain what happens inside a blackhole all the way down until quantum effects take over.

 

[khan]

I was thinking what if we are in a black hole and black holes form within black holes and new universes are born within black holes and the matter is infinitely iterated? If that was the case though it would stop at one point but maybe matter is infinite. If matter is infinite then its just a infinite iteration but each iteration hits a end. If we are in a black hole though how could we find the opening to the black hole that we are in? Would we see the light from the other side? These are my internal ramblings on a potential theory of black holes. If all matter seperates and is broken apart the matter on the other side would be just like the matter was in ours at the beginning of the universe if im correct?

General relativity predicts the existence of singularities at the heart of a gravitationally collapsed object like a black hole. A complete theory of quantum gravity may predict something else though. My own assumption is that singularities of space-time cannot actually exist, but instead, space-time and mass-energy are condensed into a highly symmetric unified state, or condition, much like the pre-bang universe was before the symmetry was broken and the universe rapidly inflated.

 

[river]

I was thinking what if we are in a black hole and black holes form within black holes and new universes are born within black holes and the matter is infinitely iterated? If that was the case though it would stop at one point but maybe matter is infinite. If matter is infinite then its just a infinite iteration but each iteration hits a end. If we are in a black hole though how could we find the opening to the black hole that we are in? Would we see the light from the other side? These are my internal ramblings on a potential theory of black holes. If all matter seperates and is broken apart the matter on the other side would be just like the matter was in ours at the beginning of the universe if im correct?

assuming that black-holes are physically possible in the first place , their not

 

[river]

in a galactic core of a galaxy we are talking of fluid dynamics because the particles are so closely compressed that the particles act as a fluid

and you can only compress a fluid to a certain point where it can't be compressed any further , three dimensionally

think hydraulics

 

[wlminex]

Living in a blackhole? (BH). . . . not too far-fetched IMO . . . there have been much wierder ideas presented on Sciforums. I seem to recall in one of my posts a few months ago - somewhere - I speculated that if we 'lived' in a blackhole everything outside of our BH environ would 'appear' to be receding (expanding) away from us - funny, I guess - . . . .that 'appearances' can be so deceiving . . .

 

[river]

Living in a blackhole? (BH). . . . not too far-fetched IMO . . . there have been much wierder ideas presented on Sciforums. I seem to recall in one of my posts a few months ago - somewhere - I speculated that if we 'lived' in a blackhole everything outside of our BH environ would 'appear' to be receding (expanding) away from us - funny, I guess - . . . .that 'appearances' can be so deceiving . . .

whatever

 

[river]

anyway to reiterate

in a galactic core of a galaxy we are talking of fluid dynamics because the particles are so closely compressed that the particles act as a fluid

and you can only compress a fluid to a certain point where it can't be compressed any further , three dimensionally

think hydraulics

 

[AlphaNumeric]

When you're inside there are only sub-atomic particles that can exist (perhaps), maybe not even that, there are simply no conditions in which life could evolve. No known laws of physics can "survive" inside the black hole-they are totally different from the rest of the universe, and we do know, that the laws of physics in our universe enabled to create conditions for life to evolve, in a black hole there are not such laws of physics compatible to our own universe.

This is not what general relativity says.

For sufficiently large black holes the forces you experience just inside the black hole's event horizon would be the same as you're feeling now. Normal size black holes have extreme gravitational effects within the event horizon but it gets weaker as the black hole gets larger. This is because the event horizon radius goes like M while the surface gravity goes like 1/M. Inside sufficiently large black holes the space-time can be very close to flat.

 

[AlexG]

in a galactic core of a galaxy we are talking of fluid dynamics because the particles are so closely compressed that the particles act as a fluid

The central parsec around Sagittarius A (the galactic center) contains thousands of stars as well as a supermassive BH of about 4 million solar masses. We're talking of orbital dynamics and astrophysics, not fluid dynamics.