Black Crime

[alexb123]

In the UK we have operation Trident to tackle black on black gun crime. However, Gun crime is the tip of a more general black crime problem. The black community openly admit to the gun crime problem and take steps to reduce this form of crime. This includes high profile black celebrity’s using the media etc.

However, if you were to mention that there is also a general black crime problem you would be labelled racist. Surely the black community should be tackling the low level crime that can be a stepping-stone to the gun crime that is killing people here.

What are your views? Also how do other countries tackle crime problems from ethnic communities?

 

[Huwy]

people can't even begin to address the issue because they will be labelled "racist" when really they are the people who are most likely to want to change the situation!

 

[apendrapew]

What can be done about black violence?

To answer that question I think we first need to address why they are violent as populations.

Based on what I've read and what I know, the issue seems to be both cultural and biological. But the biological component is what produces the cultural component, so ultimately, they're violent because of their biology. All culture does is exaggerate and distinguish behaviors and characteristics that are already there. This is true for males and females too. In psychology, this is a well-documented phenomenon known as group polarization.

It should be noted that a black person growing up in, say, a white culture, will likely assimilate with few problems and even be popular (white kids seem to admire blacks for some reason). They will take on 'white' values and function normally like a regular white. Point? Isolated blacks aren't nearly as threatening. I live in New Hampshire where there aren't a lot of blacks, so I know this to be true. However, it's well documented that bad things inevitably happen when you have groups of blacks together. Bad things seem to happen precisely when a 'black culture' is produced.

Ultimately, blacks are not uneducated, less intelligent, poor and have a low standard of living because of culture and stereotypes, though they arguably help reinforce and exacerbate their situation; it's biology. Biology would explain why this is true not only in the US, but all over the world. For now, this makes sense to me.

So if biology is the ultimate underlying reason for their violence, what can be done about blacks? Not much. As long as blacks hang out together, there will be an appropriately named 'black culture'.

 

[Baron Max]

Good post, apendrapew, and I suspect that you'll be labelled as a racist if anyone else reads it carefully.

Baron Max

 

[apendrapew]

I suspect that you'll be labelled as a racist if anyone else reads it carefully.

I can't help being a racist. I don't think anyone can.

 

[duendy]

hmmmmmm, i have read it carefully, and feel quite justified to announce to all-readers and the world if necessary, that you are not just racist, but a raving NAZI. Have you thought of starting your own KKK unit by chance, sure i some some vacancies in the nazi SS gazette the other day?

Listen. there is no such thing as 'black crime'. as most blcak people will inform ypu, therer is crime, not 'black' crime.

dp you call crime done in thew white community 'white' crime?

and what is all this psycobabble about biology, and psychologism, they have been known to bethe biggest bunch of fukin racists known to human kind, cause their vile evil narrow minds pretend to make a science out of their ingrained bigotry.

and as for crime. have you heard of the BUSH FAMILY. what are tey doin, white crime or black crime?....do you know what they have been up to want educatin whitbooooy?

how bout, and thewrer s even more than tis--starting illegal wars, killing thousands of innocent pople, causing the illnesss and death of their own soldiers by not informing them about the awful effects DU radiation poisoning, doing same to the whole population of Iraq, Afghanistian, Iraq, Kosovo, where DU has made the places uninhabitable, causing cancers, and genetic deformations of babies for generations to come, DU having a half shelf life of over 4 billion years....is tht enough for you. what do you say about THAT CRIME? where wuld you rate ii

errr are you one of the Illuminati?

duuude, you are as racist as can be!

 

[Roman]

What can be done about black violence?

To answer that question I think we first need to address why they are violent as populations.

Based on what I've read and what I know, the issue seems to be both cultural and biological. But the biological component is what produces the cultural component, so ultimately, they're violent because of their biology. All culture does is exaggerate and distinguish behaviors and characteristics that are already there. This is true for males and females too. In psychology, this is a well-documented phenomenon known as group polarization.

It should be noted that a black person growing up in, say, a white culture, will likely assimilate with few problems and even be popular (white kids seem to admire blacks for some reason). They will take on 'white' values and function normally like a regular white. Point? Isolated blacks aren't nearly as threatening. I live in New Hampshire where there aren't a lot of blacks, so I know this to be true. However, it's well documented that bad things inevitably happen when you have groups of blacks together. Bad things seem to happen precisely when a 'black culture' is produced.

Ultimately, blacks are not uneducated, less intelligent, poor and have a low standard of living because of culture and stereotypes, though they arguably help reinforce and exacerbate their situation; it's biology. Biology would explain why this is true not only in the US, but all over the world. For now, this makes sense to me.

So if biology is the ultimate underlying reason for their violence, what can be done about blacks? Not much. As long as blacks hang out together, there will be an appropriately named 'black culture'.

I definitely acknowledge that a predominant number of blacks engage in 'antisocial' behavior and stuff that is pretty much deemed by society as bad, but I do not think there is enough evidence to support a biological thesis. Nor is there enough evidence to discredit it, but before you start calling every negro fundamentally bankrupt of morals, you should take pause and consider the implications of your actions.

Furthermore, there may be a gene linked to violence, but I doubt very much that it is linked with any sort of race as simple as black v. white. If you take even the slightest look at the last 2000 years of history, the worst atrocities and bloodiest wars were caused by whites. You could argue that is because whites have significantly advanced military technology compared to blacks or whatever, but the fact is, whites are just as willing to engage in violence as blacks.

Most crime is a function of poverty and overcrowding. I think you could find statistics just about anywhere to support this, so I'm not really going to look them up. Modern sociologists believe that education and wealth are major determinates of what causes criminal behavior.

Blacks are, as a whole, less educated and less wealthy than whites. But this is quite understandable. Look at the racism they must face, such as a bunch of Texans believing they are biologically inferior to whites. Racism, such as the kind both apendrapew and baron max is very alive and well in America.

It's no surprise, really. Just 50 years ago America was still trying to solve the issue of integration. That means there are a great number of people out there who have parents who were raised in a very racist environment. Racism is still very much a part of America today, and blacks have had very few generations to catch up.

If your ancestors were slaves for 200 years, followed by all economic and social freedom being taken from you, based simply on the color of your skin, what do you think that would do to you as a people, as a cultural and as a racial identity? How do you think it would play on the minds of the oppressors?

 

[Baron Max]

So ....should we make excuses for blacks who commit crimes? And if so, isn't it racist if we treat them differently than we treat whites and other non-whites? Surely that isn't what you're suggesting, is it?

Why is it that, while there are many, many more impoverished and uneducated whites, they don't commit nearly the crimes that blacks do, in the same situations? What explanation is there for that?

Racism has it's basis in many facts and statistics ....it's not just some religious cult that sprang up overnight. Check facts and stats ....and make comparisons to other "races", THEN try to tell us why the blacks have the highest rates of crime.

Just yelling, swearing and calling someone a racist does NOT erase all of statistics.

Baron Max

 

[devils_reject]

True...all true. But while you are talking about petty crimes, which by the way white people also have a considerable helping hand in, consider the big white collar crimes. White collar crimes causes inflation whether you like it or not, which leads to a recession in the economy, thereby making life harder for black people and influencing these crimes. Crimes like many other things starts from the top and is passed all the way down. But I am not making excuses for anybody.

 

[Roman]

So ....should we make excuses for blacks who commit crimes? And if so, isn't it racist if we treat them differently than we treat whites and other non-whites? Surely that isn't what you're suggesting, is it?

I don't think I said that anywhere. I was suggesting we not condemn blacks based on the color of their skin.

Why is it that, while there are many, many more impoverished and uneducated whites, they don't commit nearly the crimes that blacks do, in the same situations? What explanation is there for that?

I'd like to see your numbers supporting this, links too. In fact, I was wondering this as I wrote my previous post, and was hoping someone could direct me to an academic study.

Racism has it's basis in many facts and statistics ....it's not just some religious cult that sprang up overnight. Check facts and stats ....and make comparisons to other "races", THEN try to tell us why the blacks have the highest rates of crime.

So you must be my man. You speak with such authoritative tone that surely you must know where these numbers are and who gathered them. Blacks have the highest rate of crime, but they also have the highest rate of poverty. What I would like to see are some graphs or sommat comparing white and black crime controlled for region, wealth and education.

For the ignorant Texans out there, this means comparing crime statistics of blacks and whites in similar communities, who have similar educations and similar amounts of wealth.

Just yelling, swearing and calling someone a racist does NOT erase all of statistics.

Agreed.

 

[apendrapew]

Roman:

before you start calling every negro fundamentally bankrupt of morals

That's not what I'm doing. Perhaps I should have specified that I was speaking in generalities. I thought that was a given. Oh well.

there may be a gene linked to violence

Are you serious?

You could argue that is because whites have significantly advanced military technology compared to blacks or whateve

You certainly could.

but the fact is, whites are just as willing to engage in violence as blacks.

This is not true. You could find statistics just about anywhere to support this, so I'm not really going to look them up.

Blacks are, as a whole, less educated and less wealthy than whites. But this is quite understandable. Look at the racism they must face, such as a bunch of Texans believing they are biologically inferior to whites. Racism, such as the kind both apendrapew and baron max is very alive and well in America.

I acknowledge that bad racism does not help their situation. But you make it out to seem like the underlying reason for all their woes. Tell me, is this true?


I think you are getting the wrong idea about me. I am not a racist in the sense that I think blacks are inferior. I am capable of making black friends, in fact, I have a few black friends. I acknowledge that they are black, but as long as they exhibit behaviors and characteristics that I deem good in a person, I do not care. In other words, I am a racist like most people. I just try not to be so full of shit.

If your ancestors were slaves for 200 years, followed by all economic and social freedom being taken from you, based simply on the color of your skin, what do you think that would do to you as a people, as a cultural and as a racial identity? How do you think it would play on the minds of the oppressors?

Jews have had it much worse, wouldn't you agree? They have flourished magnificently.

 

[Roman]

Are you serious?

Yes.

but the fact is, whites are just as willing to engage in violence as blacks.

Uh, ok. How many Nazis were black? How many Mongols were black? How many Saddam Husseins were black? How many Yakuzas or Mafiosos are black? How many Crusadors? Inquisitors? Cossacks? Conquistadors? Mezoamericans?

I acknowledge that bad racism does not help their situation. But you make it out to seem like the underlying reason for all their woes. Tell me, is this true?

Here you are, saying that 'generally' black people aren't as good as white people.

I'm just saying that blacks have a reduced opportunity chance for historical reasons and current prejudice. Pretty much any infrastructure for blacks was set up to hinder them and keep them from white society. Blacks had to start from zero in a modern democracy under crippling racism. Imagine getting torn to bits by dogs just for sleeping with a white woman, or maybe you just whistled at her. Then a lynch mob shows up and burns you alive as you hang from a tree.

Then there are the ongoing prejudices, which blacks are just as guilty of as whites. From whites, who numerically hold more jobs positions and power than blacks (and from the get go, statistically as well, controlled for population), and from blacks who consider themselves black. It's simply an issue of acknowledging race and making up thoughts about it.

I often wonder what would happen if the federal government just dropped the entire issue altogether. No more race on surveys, welfare, education, anything.

Jews have had it much worse, wouldn't you agree? They have flourished magnificently.

Ehh, I think it's all about location. Jews in Pre-WWII Europe didn't do so hot (what do you think zionism was all about?). What exactly is Jewish? Jewish is esentially Arabic, isn't it? At least, Semitic. There are plenty of Semitics out there who are quite backwards.

 

[alexb123]

There seems to be much talk of crime rates and poverty causing black people to commit crime.

I don't think that this stands up, because here in the UK black females are high achievers in education. Therefore, I would guess that black females do not have the crime problem that we see in Black males. If poverty is the cause it should effect black females as much as males. Would you agree?

 

[Roman]

Testosterone and culture seem to affect men to committ more crime than women, especially the violent type. How many female boxers are there? How many women are really into football? How many women decide to go out tonight, drink, and then stomp someone's face in?

The industrialization of the South at the turn of the century caused a great deal of the current situation we see in inner cities.

In 1900, racism was alive and kicking in the South. Southern states began to harvest their natural resources, fueling an industrial revolution that occured in the North half a century prior. Cheap, unskilled labor was needed, and blacks filled the position. At the time, 60% of all unskilled labor was black [The Enduring Vision, Boyer et al, 2005, pg 665]. Blacks flooded the cities to work. Of course, it's the South, so whatever small advancements black make were stymied by Jim Crow laws.

And this all happened up until about 40 years ago.

 

[alexb123]

I take your point that females do not commit crime on the same level as males. But I am saying that Black Females are scoring about adverage in terms of education. This means they are mainstream and not part of the sub-culture that many young black males are involved in. Yet they have the same background of poverty etc. Why is this? If we can work out why the females are not part of the problem and are in part of the solution. Then we might be able to understand where Black males are going wrong.

 

[duendy]

so, some people here are scapegoating black people as being more prone to crime than whites.

and some say they have back friends while they believe this...?

i should imagine there ARE somewblack pople who believe this. we just had a tv big brother where trhis one black dide was s up his arsew--ie., tinking himself sooo upperclass, he also slaggeds off anothe black younger man in the house cause he was from the gehtto etc. so tis bigotry and racism is not spcific to whites. fiar enough. thispoisonous attitude is common to most people of all colour, but does this make it right?

NO.

IT SUCKS.

IT BREEDS CONFLICT.

who dropped the bomb on Hiroshomo? was it a black man?

who are the string pullers that stagew conflict, terrorism, ecocide, genocide (especially against darker skinned people) etc etc etc--who pump serious hard drugs, and guns into gehtoos of black and ethnic people,?....can you hear me oh naive white persons? what are they then? NOT criminals? howww convenient for you. you turn a blind eye to all that evil shit and slag off black people who are victims of it just like poor white people. They love you doing that cause it takes attention away from what is really going on. don't you GET it? thought you were ao bright?

have you heard of empire building, colonialism, which all involves mass violence on every level

are you seriuuus?

you are great advertisment for stupid white men

 

[alexb123]

so, some people here are scapegoating black people as being more prone to crime than whites.

and some say they have back friends while they believe this...?

i should imagine there ARE somewblack pople who believe this. we just had a tv big brother where trhis one black dide was s up his arsew--ie., tinking himself sooo upperclass, he also slaggeds off anothe black younger man in the house cause he was from the gehtto etc. so tis bigotry and racism is not spcific to whites. fiar enough. thispoisonous attitude is common to most people of all colour, but does this make it right?

NO.

IT SUCKS.

IT BREEDS CONFLICT.

who dropped the bomb on Hiroshomo? was it a black man?

who are the string pullers that stagew conflict, terrorism, ecocide, genocide (especially against darker skinned people) etc etc etc--who pump serious hard drugs, and guns into gehtoos of black and ethnic people,?....can you hear me oh naive white persons? what are they then? NOT criminals? howww convenient for you. you turn a blind eye to all that evil shit and slag off black people who are victims of it just like poor white people. They love you doing that cause it takes attention away from what is really going on. don't you GET it? thought you were ao bright?

have you heard of empire building, colonialism, which all involves mass violence on every level

are you seriuuus?

you are great advertisment for stupid white men

So you are saying there is no crime problem among young black males? Does that include black men shooting black men? Because I see many people on TV saying what a big problem it is.

Also please stop comparing politics and war to life on the street. They are two differant ball games. Politics has much more to answer for, but it has no place in this debate.

Also this thread is about solutions and how to change things for the better by understanding the situation without ignoring certain facts that on the surface don't look good for black males. If you would take a step back and then come forward with less emotion then maybe we can all learn from each other

 

[Baron Max]

I'm just saying that blacks have a reduced opportunity chance for historical reasons and current prejudice. Pretty much any infrastructure for blacks was set up to hinder them and keep them from white society. Blacks had to start from zero in a modern democracy under crippling racism.

Well, the Chinese did, too, but where is this same massive rate of crime commited by the Chinese?

The Mexicans did, too, but where is this same massive rate of crime commited by the Mexicans?

The Vietnamese did, too, but where is this same massive rate of crime commited by the Vietnamese?

See? If it could all be explained as easily as you think/say, then the same rates of crime would exist among many other ethnic/racial groups in similar/same situations. But it doesn't! OOoooh, what now? How can you explain it now?

And Alex is saying what I've said for years ...unless we look at the situation in realistic terms, without making excuses and bullshit, then we're never going to be able to help anyone, including the blacks. The stigma of racism has kept us from studying the issues and thereby helping. As it is, we're not even "allowed" to publish studies that separate crime rates with racial or ethnic backgrounds. That ignorance, forced and otherwise, is nothing but hiding our heads in the sand and hoping that the problems go away!

Baron Max

 

[apendrapew]

“
but the fact is, whites are just as willing to engage in violence as blacks.
”

Uh, ok. How many Nazis were black? How many Mongols were black? How many Saddam Husseins were black? How many Yakuzas or Mafiosos are black? How many Crusadors? Inquisitors? Cossacks? Conquistadors? Mezoamericans?

Point made. Blacks aren't the only ones committing crimes. I never disputed that.

I'm just saying that blacks have a reduced opportunity chance for historical reasons and current prejudice. Pretty much any infrastructure for blacks was set up to hinder them and keep them from white society. Blacks had to start from zero in a modern democracy under crippling racism. Imagine getting torn to bits by dogs just for sleeping with a white woman, or maybe you just whistled at her. Then a lynch mob shows up and burns you alive as you hang from a tree.

Then there are the ongoing prejudices, which blacks are just as guilty of as whites. From whites, who numerically hold more jobs positions and power than blacks (and from the get go, statistically as well, controlled for population), and from blacks who consider themselves black. It's simply an issue of acknowledging race and making up thoughts about it.

You're talking about discrimination in the US being a major cause for their situation as an ethnicity. But how do you explain their situation in other places like Africa and Britain, as Alex pointed out. There certainly seems to be a 'black' problem. I find it unlikely that biology doesn't play a large part.

Jews have had it much worse, wouldn't you agree? They have flourished magnificently.

Ehh, I think it's all about location. Jews in Pre-WWII Europe didn't do so hot (what do you think zionism was all about?). What exactly is Jewish? Jewish is esentially Arabic, isn't it? At least, Semitic. There are plenty of Semitics out there who are quite backwards.

Let me rephrase my question. Wouldn't you say they are doing much better than blacks in comparison?

 

[James R]

Wow. You don't see this amount of uninformed prejudice all in one place very often.

Based on what I've read and what I know, the issue seems to be both cultural and biological. But the biological component is what produces the cultural component, so ultimately, they're violent because of their biology.

You haven't established that black communities are any more violent than white communities, and you're already galloping off into possible reasons.

I live in New Hampshire where there aren't a lot of blacks, so I know this to be true.

So, you know all about black people, even though you don't know any personally, and don't live in an area where there are many black people. Interesting.

However, it's well documented that bad things inevitably happen when you have groups of blacks together.

Really?

And I suppose you have evidence that fewer "bad things" happen with groups of white people?

Bad things seem to happen precisely when a 'black culture' is produced.

What is this "black culture" you speak of, as if it is something different from "American culture"?

Ultimately, blacks are not uneducated, less intelligent, poor and have a low standard of living because of culture and stereotypes, though they arguably help reinforce and exacerbate their situation; it's biology.

Biology makes them uneducated. Again, an interesting thesis.

As long as blacks hang out together, there will be an appropriately named 'black culture'.

And as long as hippy musicians hang out together there will be a "hippy musician culture". So what?

I definitely acknowledge that a predominant number of blacks engage in 'antisocial' behavior and stuff that is pretty much deemed by society as bad, but I do not think there is enough evidence to support a biological thesis.

A "predominant number". Where do you get your statistics?

So ....should we make excuses for blacks who commit crimes?

Should we make excuses for whites who commit crimes?

Why is it that, while there are many, many more impoverished and uneducated whites, they don't commit nearly the crimes that blacks do, in the same situations?

Establish your facts first. Prove to me that impoverished and uneducated white people commit fewer crimes than impoverished and uneducated black people, per capita. Then we can start discussing reasons.

Racism has it's basis in many facts and statistics...

No. It's just irrational fear and lack of knowledge of the other which manifests as bigotry.

So you are saying there is no crime problem among young black males? Does that include black men shooting black men? Because I see many people on TV saying what a big problem it is.

Do you think there could possibly be more reporting of "black crime" than "white crime"?

Well, the Chinese did, too, but where is this same massive rate of crime commited by the Chinese?

Do you have statistics on Chinese crime rates? Interesting, seeing as the Chinese government controls the flow of information. What is your source?

See? If it could all be explained as easily as you think/say, then the same rates of crime would exist among many other ethnic/racial groups in similar/same situations. But it doesn't!

Are you aware that rates of reporting crime vary across different countries, and even within different areas of the same country?

And Alex is saying what I've said for years ...unless we look at the situation in realistic terms, without making excuses and bullshit, then we're never going to be able to help anyone, including the blacks.

Right.

We should strive to present things in realistic terms in the hope of making the racists see some sense.