Beyond My Existence

(my post from the other thread)
You will never prove this becuase the only way you can precieve anything is through senses

You have a berry. It looks like a berry. It feels like a berry. It smells like a berry. It tastes like a berry. All evedence points to it being a berry. You have no proof that it is not a berry. It must be a berry.

Your senses may be tricking you, but you will not sense a lack of senses with touch, taste, smell or sound.

Any statement that your senses can't prove is a belief.

OG!
 
Any statement that your senses can't prove is a belief.
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Can the truth be found beyond human sensation? Have we hade the evolutionary need to precieve such things, infa-red, really high pitched sounds, ultra-violet. Because we cannot sense those does that mean that they do not exist? If we where to base our senses on such things how would it change our perception of the universe? Can you tell what a berry is through infa-red? Can you taste ultra-violet radiation?

Your senses may be tricking you, but you will not sense a lack of senses with touch, taste, smell or sound.
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Does a man who live in compete ignorance realize what he is ignorant of? Is it possible that we are just ignornate of certain senses that lead to a true perception of reality? Say if a man/women refuses to open their eyes because he/she belives they don't exist, is he/she blind?
 
The obcession of proving everything is absurd. Does a scientist have to prove everything that he learned for himself. Of course not. We have no choice but to believe. Although we can choose what to believe.
 
Is thought then just a way to verify ones existance? Is the gift of the human race that we know we are alive?
 
Perhaps it is the curse of the human race. Animals aren't burdened with all these questions, they just live...
 
Originally posted by axonio98
An amoeba doesn't think therefore it doesn't exist.
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If existence applies to the independent consciousness and not the physical body, that's right; this was what Descartes was referencing. There are giant holes in his proof, but it was not intended to be all-encompassing; it was a response to early observations that one had no idea if the external world was a dream or a tangible, physical reality.
 
thus it is a question of wether an amoeba exists or is simply your dream...

Another way to look at it is: It does not think therefor the question does not exist. The amoeba still does.
 
Good topic to begin my career at sciforums :cool:.

This is a question that has haunted me in the past. I guess I had a habit of internalizing problems, philosophical problems included. Now, however fascinating the presented dilemma is...it totally failes to disturb my sense of reality. If the tree falls and no one is there to listen does it really matter whether it falls or not? Presenting this argument to a philosopher is never a good idea from my experience. But this is where my philosophy has lead. This is problem that every thinker must come into, and no one can solve it, but it evolves our way of thinking.

Cactus Jack, from my humble opinion, presented a very good argument for the existence of other people. If you can find a conscious being who can truly offer a new approach to life then I'd really like to consider him as an existing person. But it's no proof of course. I know that I interact with many people believing that they do exist. And I have to rely on that to make social interaction meaningful. Although whether they exist or not they still seem to have a lot to say.
 
Originally posted by prozak
[it was a response to early observations that one had no idea if the external world was a dream or a tangible, physical reality ]

maybe i'm God dreaming in heaven. :eek:
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Do you only exist if you are consious of your exsitance?
Is is the knowledge of consiousness what truly makes us alive?
 
I believe so Emptry Dragon. I think the point is the self consciousness. Existence, the greatest dilemma of philosophy, can only be understood at some level when you consider the consciousness as "an element of existence".

You can only prove your existence if your conscious. If your not your existance can not matter to your self - there is no self. Your existence only has a significance to a self conscious being. In a void where there exists only unconsciousness the existence can not possibly have any meaning at all. Thus the unconsciousness existence without conscious existence may be, in practise, considered unexistent. Because that (unconscious)existence is not existing for anyone - it's not really existing at all. And if it exists, as said, it can not possibly have any other quality than mere existence. Even that can not be proved in this case. The void...is still a void without the consciousness.

For the second question. Yes...from my opinion.
 
Shai, Empty

If knowledge of consiousness creates existance, does that mean when you dream you are effectively creating a new existance that lasts only as long as your dream?
 
I might add that knowledge of existence creates the existence as we know it. Since we can't have knowledge of existence without the experience of existence. So it's next to impossible to observe existence without the subjective experience. This makes the problems of existence so difficult to answer.

But...I'd say yes. I believe that we, effectively, great a unique universe from our experience...and that universe is self in all of its forms. However, dream serves a purpose so the existence of dream will live on at some level. I suppose you could view the dream as an identifiable experience...to be temporary existence.
 
Well, you can not see me sitting at my computer, and while I can never prove it, let's assume I really am sitting at my computer. So this universe goes on wether you're looking or not... Does a dream? In a dream, does anything exist behind the door you decide not to open?
 
Originally posted by Shai


You can only prove your existence if your conscious.
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I believe my fridge is conscious. Every time i open it's door a light opens. I can swear the bastard knows i'm there! :D
 
That's a point well put notme2000. My very limited explanation of existence is based on my personal assumption of "irrelevance of universe happening to unconscious". I can not possibly know if universe goes on and on without my own experience. I'm pretty sure my dream doesn't. But since for me universe exists only the way I can comprehend it...the difference is unimportant. For me, nothing happens behind the door I decide not to open, whether in "real" universe or in a dream, all same for me in the end. So I always try to open those doors where ever I see them...All in all, it's very subjective.

Just smash the light axonio and live a life not having to wonder if your fridge is conscious ;)
 
I understand your point, but things outside my view will eventually come to effect my life, which is why I am so interested in it...
 
interesting

If we exist, because of our thoughts. Then what about people that are unconsious or people that are in comas? They exist to us because we see them and know that are alive. If you're unconsious and you are not aware that you are, then do you exist?
 
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