What risky is actually making ti to mars, it will give humans the idea that they have a future.
Bases on Mars? What's the holdup?
- Thread starter HGVonGalten
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I just returned from a week surfing, and we take our trailer (caravan to the Brits) and this thread came to mind. All those that think spending two years aboard space craft would be without issue, should get some experience of boating, living in an RV, climbing mountains etc, and understand how much resource of each resource they need each day to survive comfortably, and then think how long they could live happily on a reduced amount.
Having to fill up water tanks in our trailer makes you realise the quantities of water we use, same goes for dealing with the waste. Of course, air comes in through the windows, and food we can resupply, unlike a Mars mission. Now, our trailer is 18feet long, and about as wide as the mockup of an ISS module I've been inside, so comparable to living quarter dimensions on the ISS, and probably not much smaller than the area any Mars mission pilots would get, and I know I'd go stir crazy in such a small place for two years.
I even made a small mistake venting a water system as we prepared to leave. I've done this procedure dozens of times before, but this time, missed one step and got sprayed. This also made me think about the dangers of a manned Mars mission that takes so long; familiarity breeds contempt! I've performed the close down operations on the caravan so many times I don't think too hard anymore, and that's why I forgot to switch off a pump before I bled the water system. Astronauts, perforning the same tasks day after day would inevitably suffer from the 'second nature' thoughts, and perhaps abandon checklists, and eventually make a mistake, it's human nature. I was lucky I didn't get scalded, but medical aid wasn't far away anyway. In space, a simple mistake like that could have far more serious ramafications.
So Nasor thinking that each and every crew member could exceed the current endurance records, and maintain the required mental balance and attention required for such a tricky job sems to not be talking from experience, nor from hard data, like I said, only 12 astronauts have the cumulative flight time for Mars missions, only one the continuous flight time, and such a mission like the one proposed by Russia, requires a constant staff of six on Mars.
So, my challenge to you, Nasor, is to plan a week, cut off from all outside influences, with just what you can store in one room, and live in that room. No going out, no daylight, no food or water coming in, no bath, just the same sanitary conditions as you get in space, and see how you feel after a week. Then, try and imagine a month, and then a year, and then see if it would be so easy to hand wave over the human element.
Having to fill up water tanks in our trailer makes you realise the quantities of water we use, same goes for dealing with the waste. Of course, air comes in through the windows, and food we can resupply, unlike a Mars mission. Now, our trailer is 18feet long, and about as wide as the mockup of an ISS module I've been inside, so comparable to living quarter dimensions on the ISS, and probably not much smaller than the area any Mars mission pilots would get, and I know I'd go stir crazy in such a small place for two years.
I even made a small mistake venting a water system as we prepared to leave. I've done this procedure dozens of times before, but this time, missed one step and got sprayed. This also made me think about the dangers of a manned Mars mission that takes so long; familiarity breeds contempt! I've performed the close down operations on the caravan so many times I don't think too hard anymore, and that's why I forgot to switch off a pump before I bled the water system. Astronauts, perforning the same tasks day after day would inevitably suffer from the 'second nature' thoughts, and perhaps abandon checklists, and eventually make a mistake, it's human nature. I was lucky I didn't get scalded, but medical aid wasn't far away anyway. In space, a simple mistake like that could have far more serious ramafications.
So Nasor thinking that each and every crew member could exceed the current endurance records, and maintain the required mental balance and attention required for such a tricky job sems to not be talking from experience, nor from hard data, like I said, only 12 astronauts have the cumulative flight time for Mars missions, only one the continuous flight time, and such a mission like the one proposed by Russia, requires a constant staff of six on Mars.
So, my challenge to you, Nasor, is to plan a week, cut off from all outside influences, with just what you can store in one room, and live in that room. No going out, no daylight, no food or water coming in, no bath, just the same sanitary conditions as you get in space, and see how you feel after a week. Then, try and imagine a month, and then a year, and then see if it would be so easy to hand wave over the human element.
phlogistician,
I don't think it is without issue but it is not a serious problem, submariners do it all the time, they manage to live in an enclosed artificial space with certain death all around them and months without even seeing sunlight. Also its easy to prepare future Martians at Mars travel simulating training camps for years on end.
I don't think it is without issue but it is not a serious problem, submariners do it all the time, they manage to live in an enclosed artificial space with certain death all around them and months without even seeing sunlight. Also its easy to prepare future Martians at Mars travel simulating training camps for years on end.
die indeed.
In short 2 years in a tin can is survivable, it simply requires some mental fortitude, and the right personalty... probably not draqon's. Can you imagine what 20 min delay would do to his internet forum activity, he would shrivel up and die.
you really underestimate me...I was able to wait many years for a right girl to come to my life, I was able to wait 4 years for to rejoin my parents, I was able to wait a week without food, and be alone for quite some days...
I can do it.Yawn
This is getting silly. As has already been pointed out, someone already did it, and was fine. You can try to hand-wave that fact away with posts about living in an RV all you want, but the only actual data on the subject indicates that it is not a problem. Do you suppose that the person who spent over a year in space was some sort of super-human with special abilities that ordinary astronauts wouldn't have? Because that's pretty much the only way you can get around the fact that it has already been proven possible.
you really underestimate me...I was able to wait many years for a right girl to come to my life, I was able to wait 4 years for to rejoin my parents, I was able to wait a week without food, and be alone for quite some days...
Oh please, lets see you last 2 years from sciforums then?
why should I? its not for a Martian cause...
Surely it for you to prove a point, if you can survive 2 years without sciforums, I will do what ever is possible to get you to mars.
oh please...NASA better endorse it, I don't want to do this just to prove something to some silly geese
oh please...NASA better endorse it, I don't want to do this just to prove something to some silly geese
Oh nasa will endorse it, trust me.
whats nasa?
NASA does not endorse something this idiotic. Now lets get back to discussion on Mars. the real holdup it seems on Mars mission is technical to me...the sort of landing apparatus needed for aerobraking procedure would exceed the current Spirit and Opportunity landers...so they proposed the inflatable cone to maximize the drag resistance to slow down the vehicle
draqon,
Chicken.
Yes the size of a lander taht can fit humans would have to much mass per surface area for a conventional landing on mars. Yes an inflatable aeroshield would works, so would an atmosphere skipping landing system (that would require wings), or better yet why land humans?
Chicken.
Yes the size of a lander taht can fit humans would have to much mass per surface area for a conventional landing on mars. Yes an inflatable aeroshield would works, so would an atmosphere skipping landing system (that would require wings), or better yet why land humans?
One man did it. In sight of the Earth. With resupply, with the possibility of rescue.
Try it, learn from the experience, and get back to me.
WRONG. The actual data shows it is a huge problem! Muscle wastage, lack of sunlight, psychology, you know the term 'stir crazy' yes? Think astronauts are somehow superhuman and would never suffer from this?
No, I just think you can't extrapolate from an orbiting space station to a space vehicle that gets no resupply.
It hasn't been proven possible. One guy, just one guy, has the continual flight time required. Only 12 have the cumulative flight time. Until you can PROVE that six peopel can do it routinely, you've proved nothing.
Submariners spend what, at most, four months submerged, several hundred metres below the sea, with the possibility of escape and rescue. Nuclear subs are pretty big too, and while living quarters aren't big, you can like, walk places, and talk to different people. Oh, and get a shower.
Compare that to spending two years in a spacecraft and the only way to clean yourself being a moist tissue.
They aren't recruiting for people who will give up and die. They would want people who would use ingenuity to stay alive.
I am one of such people, phlogistician.
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