Are religious descriptions of science deliberately deceiving?

Seattle

Seattle

Valued Senior Member
It would seem to me that most articles published in religious oriented publications describing science are deliberately deceiving. I've read quite a few articles and they are mostly deceptive and seemingly deliberately so.

To describe the Big Bang or stellar formation or Evolution or whatever it takes a certain familiarity with the subject so when you see misstatements it appears to me to be deliberately done.

In many, many cases parts of the explanations are embellished with notes such as "science agrees with this".

When you describe Evolution as being something where all the evidence isn't in and the Big Bang as a giant explosive fireball or imply that Evolution says that we come from "monkeys". You know the intention is to deceive.

If you have any knowledge of any area of science, go and read as many Christian explanations of what science says and you will see what I'm referring to. It isn't hard to find as it's virtually everywhere. It seems there are no accurate descriptions of scientific subjects on religious oriented sites.

Doesn't this seem like the most un-Christian approach to take?There are even sites describing why not to "trust" "experts". The problem for them with Evolution isn't which expert to trust since they all point to Evolution and none point to Creationism. Their attempt at obfuscation is to claim that no lay person can understand this stuff and thus we have to rely on experts and which expert should we trust. Trust the Christian scientist expert is the conclusion?
 
Seattle said:
Doesn't this seem like the most un-Christian approach to take?
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Science explores reality on purely mechanical terms--they are more concerned with the external Universe.
Spirituality explores reality on purely spiritual terms--they are more concerned with the internal Universe.

As it stands now, neither can proclaim authority over the other. Perhaps some day they will meet in the middle and realize they are right.
 
Seattle said:
When you describe Evolution as being something where all the evidence isn't in and the Big Bang as a giant explosive fireball or imply that Evolution says that we come from "monkeys". You know the intention is to deceive.
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Idk, from the arguments I've read, most have never bothered to even understand Evolution or the BB, they hear the buzz words from their congregation and usually go from there. One time I was talking with another guy about evolution at the work place (bad idea) and along came another guy who heard our conversation and started climbing all over the chairs and tables screeching, "Look at me, I'm an evolved monkey - Hahahaha!"
Then, he went on to tell us all about his Lord and Savior.

Now, if we look at the Discovery Institute, that indeed is pure deception because those guys are expected to understand the subject matter.
 
Bowser said:
Science explores reality on purely mechanical terms--they are more concerned with the external Universe.
Spirituality explores reality on purely spiritual terms--they are more concerned with the internal Universe.

As it stands now, neither can proclaim authority over the other. Perhaps some day they will meet in the middle and realize they are right.
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Bullshit. Religion talks about material things all the time. Species, Noah's Ark, the origin of humanity... Anyway, show me a spirit, there is no such thing.
 
Not ''deliberately,'' more like out of ignorance. There might be some deliberate ignorance whereby a religious person closes his/her ears , shouting''la la laaa'' not wanting to be educated on the topics that conflict with their religious beliefs. An interesting side note, Islam treats science a bit differently than fundamental Christianity. Islam tends to view science as a means for confirming the Qur'an, while many fundamental Christians view science as a means to explain Scripture. Islam also offers a basic world view including beliefs about physical reality, epistemology, ontology, etc. But, Islam still shares common ground with Christianity, in that both adhere to the OT for knowledge of the origin of humankind.
 
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Are religious descriptions of science deliberately deceiving?

When they (religions)
  • rely on faith
  • really cannot articulate faith
  • have a gazillion descriptions of heaven and hell
you really can't expect them to be precise about science

:)

 
Seattle said:
Doesn't this seem like the most un-Christian approach to take?
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Why? Christian charity, christian purity, christian forebearence, christian suffering, christian humility ....
where did you ever hear anyone refer to christian accuracy, or factuality?
They're going to save your soul from becoming a meterialist by any means necessary. If it means preying on your fears and ignorance, or flattering you with the assurance that nobody understands the things you don't understand; intellectuals are just making shit up to serve their own agenda - well, that's okay, because that little white lie saved yet another unfortunate soul from going over to the dark side.
Bowser said:
As it stands now, neither can proclaim authority over the other.
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and yet religious apologists never stop waling on science, using what they perceive as chinks in its armour to delegitimize the entire structure,
while scientists, if they deal with religion at all, do so on a basis of measurable effects
 
That the fundies who post on science forums like this are invariably dishonest, and posting in bad faith, has been a longstanding observation here.

The question was why. If their sources are as described in the OP, that might partly answer that question.
 
wegs said:
Not ''deliberately,'' more like out of ignorance.
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Very deliberately. So deliberately as to fund "think-tanks" and "colleges" whose entire purpose is to discredit one another of the sciences; so deliberately as to recruit woomongers with sciency-sounding credentials to write screeds and make videos "explaining" why the generally accepted facts about something are wrong; so deliberate as to fake up declarations signed by 11,000 "scientists", host lectures and symposia.... Oh, yea, it can't get much more deliberate.
wegs said:
But, Islam still shares common ground with Christianity, in that both adhere to the OT for knowledge of the origin of humankind.
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That's the crux of it, yes. If god didn't create Adam and give him dominion over the earth, then every power structure the religious institutions have created - every power structure: political, cultural, economic and moral - loses is foundation. A direct and personal Creator, who gave you the faculties and abilities you have and "allowed" you to exercise free will - has authority over you.
If you 'just growed', nobody has authority over you.
They can't afford to lose this one. They've made some half-assed attempts at appropriating evolution ("Yes, but it was God who put it all in motion." or "To Him, a billion years is but a single day," kind of thing) but it carries nowhere near the conviction of "I made you from a nothing. Kneel!"
 
"We are created in His likeness" has a special appeal apparently as well. When they try to get clever and accept "science" but not Evolution in its entirety it gets messes. "I accept that things change and adapt as the Earth changes but I don't believe the evidence is quite there for us coming from the monkeys".

Which leads to messy questions such as, Did God intervene to create Homo Erectus 1.5 million years ago and then Neanderthal Man and then Homo Sapiens 200,000 years ago? Did he intervene 4.5 billion years ago to create Earth or just 14 billion years ago to create the Universe or did "he" step in prior to that?

There's a reason Trump lies all the time. It's easier and more consistent.
 
Nobody who has power ever gives it up willingly, civilly or with dignity.
It's the most potent, most addictive drug in the world; it turns those who who taste it into obsessive maniacs.
 
This topic reminds me of a radical Christian named Ken Ham who spent millions of dollars, reconstructing Noah's Ark. I lost track of that story but this topic brought it to mind. It's a theme park, now?? lmao

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...hs-ark-theme-park-is-a-boring-homophobic-mess

So, did he hear a calling from God to bilk people out of money to support him reconstructing this ark, in order to make even more money by turning it into a cheap theme park? Cringe.
 
wegs said:
This topic reminds me of a radical Christian named Ken Ham who spent millions of dollars, reconstructing Noah's Ark. I lost track of that story but this topic brought it to mind. It's a theme park, now?? lmao

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...hs-ark-theme-park-is-a-boring-homophobic-mess

So, did he hear a calling from God to bilk people out of money to support him reconstructing this ark, in order to make even more money by turning it into a cheap theme park? Cringe.
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You just aren't a believer. You're supposed to take it on faith. To do otherwise is the Devil influencing your thinking. The Lord works in mysterious ways, it's not for us to know or to judge him. He knows all, not us.

The Bible is God's infallible word. I think you need to read that more, perhaps though a study group to help you understand it. A little more prayer couldn't hurt. The Lord loves it when you pray to him, he loves you that much. You can't pray too much.

Let's be Prayer Warriors together!
 
Seattle said:
It would seem to me that most articles published in religious oriented publications describing science are deliberately deceiving. I've read quite a few articles and they are mostly deceptive and seemingly deliberately so.
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Mixing religion with science is like mixing oil with water.

Most level headed religious scientists know this thus ignore any subject matter that mixes these mutually exclusive subjects.

Don't look to religion for scientific evidence and vice versa.
 
davewhite04 said:
Mixing religion with science is like mixing oil with water.

Most level headed religious scientists know this thus ignore any subject matter that mixes these mutually exclusive subjects.

Don't look to religion for scientific evidence and vice versa.
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Isn't it more like a Ferris Wheel?
 
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