Answer the question.

[Motor Daddy]

Have you ever seen infrared imaging? Where red indicates hot spots, orange and yellow are cooler, blue is cold, etc? Imagine that as a two dimensional graph where red is the highest point, yellow and orange somewhat lower and blue even lower. When you drop your ice cube into your water, the ice cube is the lowest point on the graph and the water is the highest. As the ice melts, the high point lowers and the low point rises. The peaks are still in the same places but their height has changed. When the system reaches equilbrium - i.e. the temperature is constant - the graph becomes a flat line; there are no peaks; energy can no longer flow.

I think I said that, that the ice cube gets warmer and the water gets colder, until they are 1 temperature.

But you claim there is 1 kw-hr of energy somewhere after I operate a 100 Watt light bulb for 10 hours. Where is it? Where is the energy in the water after the ice melts? Where is the energy in the gallon of gas, and how is it distributed?? So many questions for you to answer, and you keep talking about ice cubes melting...

Of course. The energy content of any point in the universe is constantly changing and can be calculated a any time.

Calculated? I thought you said energy was distributed, and spread out? Now energy is a calculation and not a distribution or a spread? Help me out, you're killing me!

 

[sideshowbob]

I think I said that, that the ice cube gets warmer and the water gets colder, until they are 1 temperature.

How do you think the ice cube gets warmer? Energy flows from the water to the ice.

But you claim there is 1 kw-hr of energy somewhere after I operate a 100 Watt light bulb for 10 hours. Where is it?

Some of it is in the light. Some of it is in the heat. The heat from the bulb will, in turn, heat up the room. The energy will continue to flow away from the bulb as long as energy is flowing into it (and even after, until the temperaure equilibrates}.

Where is the energy in the water after the ice melts?

It's still in the water (except for any that leaks out of the glass into the room).

Where is the energy in the gallon of gas, and how is it distributed??

Some of it is converted to mechanical motion in the car. Some is convertd to heat. Some is retained in the chemical bonds of the exhaust. The heat spreads out from the car into the atmosphere. The exhaust also speads out into the atmosphere.

Calculated? I thought you said energy was distributed, and spread out? Now energy is a calculation and not a distribution or a spread?

Yes, the distribution can be measured and calculated. What's mysterious about that?

 

[Motor Daddy]

How do you think the ice cube gets warmer? Energy flows from the water to the ice.

How much energy flows from the water to the ice, and how much from the ice to the water, and where is the energy in the water at the end when the ice is melted, and how is the energy distributed? The gallon of gas too!?

Some of it is in the light. Some of it is in the heat. The heat from the bulb will, in turn, heat up the room. The energy will continue to flow away from the bulb as long as energy is flowing into it (and even after, until the temperaure equilibrates}

How much energy is in the light? How far away is the light?

It's still in the water (except for any that leaks out of the glass into the room).

That sounds like potential energy? We are not talking about potential, we are talking about actual (what happened in the past, and how much work and time?)

Yes, the distribution can be measured and calculated. What's mysterious about that?

Everything! To start with, the time. 10 hours elapsed, where is it? How is the time related to energy?

 

[sideshowbob]

How much energy flows from the water to the ice, and how much from the ice to the water, and where is the energy in the water at the end when the ice is melted, and how is the energy distributed? The gallon of gas too!?

Energy flows from the water to the ice, not from the ice to the water. Enery can only flow from high to low, just like water. The energy in the water is in the water as I said. When the water is at an even temperature, the energy is evenly distributed.

How much energy is in the light?

It depends on how much electrical energy you put in and how efficiently it is converted to light.

How far away is the light?

The photons that left the bulb at 10 AM are one hour times the speed of light farther away than the ones that left at 11 AM.

That sounds like potential energy? We are not talking about potential, we are talking about actual (what happened in the past, and how much work and time?)

There is no fundamental difference between potential energy and any other form of energy. They are all easily interconverted.

How is the time related to energy?

You're already over your head with the simplest concepts. When you understand that energy flows, we can get into the flow rate.

 

[Motor Daddy]

Energy flows from the water to the ice, not from the ice to the water. Enery can only flow from high to low, just like water. The energy in the water is in the water as I said. When the water is at an even temperature, the energy is evenly distributed.

You don't have a clue about what you are talking about. You use the word energy like it's some cure all for everything you can't explain. It's laughable!

It depends on how much electrical energy you put in and how efficiently it is converted to light.

Electrical energy? What, Power*time?

Again you seem to think the word energy is some tangible, when in fact it's a mathematical calculation of power*time, and the TIME isn't over until it's over. There is no potential about it! 100 Watts for 10 hours is 1kw-hr of energy, PERIOD! It is NOT 1kw-hr of potential energy. It is not a gallon of gas, it is an hour ride in a car up a hill! Duh?

There is no fundamental difference between potential energy and any other form of energy. They are all easily interconverted.

Wrong again. A gallon of gas has a potential to do work over time. A potential to do work and doing work are two different animals. Work that was done was measured energy. A gallon of gas, well, unless you burn it it's useless! But burning it takes time!

You're already over your head with the simplest concepts. When you understand that energy flows, we can get into the flow rate.

You don't even understand what a unit of energy is. You don't understand what a kw-hr is. You don't understand the difference between operating a light bulb for 10 hours and having a gallon of gas sit in the garage for 10 hours. Laughable!!

 

[sideshowbob]

A potential to do work and doing work are two different animals.

It's the same energy, just in different places at different times. Energy moves.

You're the one who brought up entropy. Are you aware that entropy is a themodynamic quantity? Are you aware that thermodynamics concerns energy (thermo/heat) and movement (dynamics)? Bottom line: entropy is about the movement of energy.

 

[Motor Daddy]

It's the same energy, just in different places at different times. Energy moves.

The gallon of gas is not energy. Prove it!

I mean show me how much work the gallon of gas does while it's in the can in the garage for 100 hours. How much work was done in the 100 hours while the gas was in the can?

 

[sideshowbob]

The gallon of gas is not energy. Prove it!

The gallon of gas contains energy: chemical energy (which you can convert to mechanical energy in your car), heat energy (which you could use to melt an ice cube), even gravitational potential energy (which you could convert to kinetic energy to run a turbine).

 

[Motor Daddy]

The gallon of gas contains energy: chemical energy (which you can convert to mechanical energy in your car), heat energy (which you could use to melt an ice cube), even gravitational potential energy (which you could convert to kinetic energy to run a turbine).

So the gallon of gas contains heat energy, and yet it doesn't melt a plastic gas can?

Come on, if I lit the gallon of gas on fire it would melt the plastic gas can, possibly even explode the can into small pieces under the right conditions. So how does the plastic gas can contain all that heat energy while the gas is not lit, and the can not melt?

 

[sideshowbob]

So the gallon of gas contains heat energy, and yet it doesn't melt a plastic gas can?

The water contained enough heat energy to melt the ice but not enough to melt the glass. No mystery there.

Come on, if I lit the gallon of gas on fire it would melt the plastic gas can, possibly even explode the can into small pieces under the right conditions.

Yes, because the fire is the chemical energy beng released. There's more chemical energy than heat energy in the gasoline.

So how does the plastic gas can contain all that heat energy while the gas is not lit, and the can not melt?

The can only contains its own heat energy and the gasoline contains its own heat energy.

 

[Motor Daddy]

Yes, because the fire is the chemical energy beng released. There's more chemical energy than heat energy in the gasoline.

The gas is not on fire, it is in the can. It is not melting the can, and yet you claim it contains heat energy.

If the gas contained heat energy it would be melting the plastic can, but it's not. So no heat energy!

If you want to tell stories about what you claim you can do with a can of gas in the future, GREAT! Call it Potential. For now, the gas is in the can and the time is elapsing and the can is not melting! The can did not melt last night, or even the past 2 weeks in the garage while it just sat there, not heating up, not melting the can, and not exploding. It was just a gallon of gas in a plastic can, not melting, for 2 weeks!!

 

[sideshowbob]

The gas is not on fire, it is in the can. It is not melting the can, and yet you claim it contains heat energy.

It doesn't contain enough heat energy to melt the can. What do you not understand about that?

 

[Motor Daddy]

It doesn't contain enough heat energy to melt the can. What do you not understand about that?

That's what I said, it doesn't contain heat energy because the can isn't melting. You're the one claiming the gas has heat energy. Prove it. Show me how the can melts due to the gas having all that heat energy you're talking about??

 

[sideshowbob]

That's what I said, it doesn't contain heat energy because the can isn't melting. You're the one claiming the gas has heat energy.

Do you know what the word "enough" means? I have money but I don't have enough money to buy Texas. The gasoline contains heat energy but it doesn't contain enough heat energy to melt the can.

 

[Motor Daddy]

Do you know what the word "enough" means? I have money but I don't have enough money to buy Texas. The gasoline contains heat energy but it doesn't contain enough heat energy to melt the can.

So the gas basically contains the same energy as water does, as long as they are at the same temp, 72 degrees?

 

[sideshowbob]

So the gas basically contains the same energy as water does, as long as they are at the same temp, 72 degrees?

The same "kind" of energy, yes, but not necessarily the same amount.

If you drop an ice cube into the gas can, will it melt? If it does, where did the heat come from?

 

[Motor Daddy]

The same "kind" of energy, yes, but not necessarily the same amount.

If you drop an ice cube into the gas can, will it melt? If it does, where did the heat come from?

Why did you quote "kind?"

 

[sideshowbob]

Why did you quote "kind?"

Don't be confused by details. Do you understand now that water and gasoline both contain the same heat energy that melts an ice cube?

 

[Motor Daddy]

Don't be confused by details. Do you understand now that water and gasoline both contain the same heat energy that melts an ice cube?

We are not talking about melting ice cubes in gas. You made a claim that the gas has energy, and that energy is distributed (spread out) in the gas.

What units will you be using, kw-hr? How do you plan to measure that phenomenon??

 

[sideshowbob]

We are not talking about melting ice cubes in gas.

Sure we are. An ice cube melts in gasoline the same way it melts in water, and for the same reason - because heat (energy) is transferred from the liquid to the ice.

You made a claim that the gas has energy, and that energy is distributed (spread out) in the gas.

If there is no heat (energy) in the gasoline, what melts the ice? If it is not distributed throughout the gasoline, where is it? At a single point?

What units will you be using, kw-hr? How do you plan to measure that phenomenon??

You don't need to worry about the units unless you're measuring a quantity. For now, all you have to understand is that the gasoline contains heat energy as well as chemical energy.