Discussion in 'World Events' started by Biggles, Jun 27, 2001.

  1. Biggles Custos morum Registered Senior Member

    Why all this anarchy at any global political event?, eg: Davos, Gothenburg etc...
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2001
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  3. thecurly1 Registered Senior Member

    Biggles, your pretty smart if your gonig to Cambridge.

    Let me quickly explain why there is so much anarchy bull at these world gatherings. Spoiled middle class kids, (a bit like the '60s hippies) that don't understand world politics want to act like they care about something. They perceeve large governments, (the US especially) as the big bully of the world. Most of them are paranoied idiots that don't understand if the world worked better together, there would be a lot less problems. People are too uptight and worried.

    Melow out my fellow homosapiens!
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  5. Chagur .Seeker. Registered Senior Member

    Hey curly1,

    Did you bother to consider the possibility that there are people living in Cambridge who may not be attending the University?

    And, that a large majority of those protesting are fed up with Corporate abuse and are not anarchists? By the way, those playing for the TV cameras and destroying property were one thing: vandals ... not Anarchists!
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  7. thecurly1 Registered Senior Member

    To Chagur

    I was commenting you on what I thought was the university you were attending. I didn't mean to come off scarcastic. But anyways, I understand about the corporate abuse. Some of it I believe.

    Biggles said, "why is there all this anarchy at any global political event?" He wasn't talking about anarchists, he was talking about the disorder and general adjatation that occurs at these events. I was commenting on those idiots that like to screw up WTO meetings and such.

    I personally believe that these organizations are a lot more timid than the paranoied believe. All i'm saying is that those people and us should melow out a little bit, become less woried about things that aren't hurting us and just relax. I think the world is getting to uptight and worried about stupid things. If we all melowed out then we'd be a lot better off. Trust me.

    Thanks for replying to my message Chagur.
  8. barf Registered Member

    i refute!

    if you had to answer the question; what country is the "big-bully" of other countries in the world? what would you say?

    they are..
    who else tests bombs on middle eastern countries?
    who else build massive nuclear arsenals in peace time?
    whos bitches are the NATO and the UN?

    you're from the US.. please dont tell me you think your country isnt the most corrupt, figure head of bad government that exists in the world.

    you'll be the first smart patriotic person ive ever met if you can prove otherwise.

    the only ppl who like the US are its residents (and then its only because they're stupid plebs).. ill make a wager that if you asked 10 people from random non-US locations if they liked the american government, that almost all of them would say no.

    sorry to sound cynical and nasty.. but the US isnt exactly the greatest country in the world.

    and whats with the proselytisation of democracy!!!*(&(*$&(!&$
    can i get a person from the US to answer that?
  9. thecurly1 Registered Senior Member

    You obviously aren't from the US...

    I am the smartest patriot- corrections to your analisys of the United States of America.

    1) we test bombs in bombing ranges of our middle eastern allies, we're not droping them at random on civilans.

    2)If you knew anything about the US military is that we have cut defense spending constantly since the end of the Cold War. Last month President Bush said he was astonished by the number of nuclear weapons in are arsenal and would speed up the scaling back of these weapons, faster than it is allready being done.

    3)The United Nations has voted us out of the Human Rights Council, and disagreed on actions before. The UN isn't our bitch. If anything I praised the UN in a thread a few days ago, look it up.
    NATO was founded by the US to protect our allies from attack by other countries. The Feb. bombing of Iraqi AA sites wasn't a NATO mission, but that of the US and UK.

    4)Does the US government have corruption? Yes. Is the US a perfect system of governemnt? No. But there is less corruption in the United States than there is in the Russian Federation, and many of the former Soviet states. We aren't the perfect system of government, and that isn't the point. The day any government is viewed by the people to be perfect (I never said it was at any point) is the day we should all be very frightened, because that means the public has completely capitualted to its government.

    5)You wanna know what a bad government is? A governemnt that has a one-couple one-child birth policy. Like the PRC. The Peoples Republic of China will only allow one couple one child because of overcrowding. If a second child is born, without permission from the state the child is killed like this. When the baby's head first pokes out of the mother's womb, a doctor takes a syringe of formaldihide, sticks it into the baby's soft spot of the head and injects the solution into the brain. If that isn't the ultimate act of cruiltiy I don't know what is.

    6)We don't sponsor terrorist to run around in rental cars, and blow up embassies, or tear holes in the sides of ships. We have never used chemical, or biological weapons on our on civilians, a la Sadam Hussein.

    7)For the mistakes of putting German, Japanesses, and Italians in interment camps during WWII, the US government shelled out over a BILLION dollars in reperations to those who we punished.

    I find it quite interesting how other foreign countries will take shots at us when we do something just slightly distastefull. But when there is a crisis, when another country needs help with a plague, or needs money to keep vital health care programs going, we the United States of America, and its tax payers have payed well over a trillion dollars in foreign aid since the end of the Second World War. Even when we were five trillion dollars in debt, we still shelled out cash to coutnries that have needed it.
    The US has lead the way in vaccinating the world from Smallpox, and is nearly completing to erradicate Polio from the world.
    The ultimate act of unshelfishness was, even before Pearl Harbor, Roosevelt put American ships in the Atlantic to commit unrestricted, covert warefare on German U-boats to help our friend Britian.
    If you can name anyother country, and give examples of such little selfishness I will shut up.
    P.S. I assume that you think your country is better than us, I'd like to know where you are from barf.



    Action of the Second Continental Congress, July 4, 1776

    The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen United State of America

    WHEN in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the Earth, the seperate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the causes which imples them to the Seperation.
    WE hold these truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness-That to secure these Rights, Governemtns are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governedd, that whenever any Form of Governmetn becomes destructive of these Ends, it si the right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likelye t effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governemnts long established should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experinece hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abues and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, envinces a Design to reduce them under absolute future Security. Such has been the pateinet Sufferance of these Colonies; and now the Necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The History of the present King of Great-Britian is a History of repeated Injuries and Usurpations, all having in direct Object the Establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid World.

    WE the people of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the commond defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution fo rhte United States of America.


    Amendment I
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free excerise theorof; or abridinging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    Amenment II
    A well regulated Militaia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bare arms shall not be infringed.
    Amendment III
    No Solider shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, with outht eh consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.
    Amendment IV
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizuress, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searches, and the persons or things to be seized.
    Amendment V
    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamouse crim, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall nay person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeporady of life or limb, nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;' nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation.
    Amendment VI
    In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and sistric wherein the crime shall have been commited; which district shall have been perviously aseertianed by law, and to be informed of the nature and causes of the accustaion; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defence.
    Amendment VII
    In Suits at common law, where the value in controvery shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be perserved, and no fact tried by a jury shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States than according to the rules of the common law.
    Amendment VIII
    Ecessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor crule and unusual punishments inflicted
    Amendment IX
    The enumeration in the Constituion of certain rights shall not be constructed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
    Amendment X
    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States are reserved to the States respecitively, or to the people.

  10. Chagur .Seeker. Registered Senior Member


    Why don't you and Jagdwuf team up and start your own thread?

    Like '101 Reasons Why Amerika is WONDERFUL!'
  11. Corp.Hudson Registered Senior Member


    I live within the geographic boundary that the United States government claims as its own, and I do not like the government or give it my consent.

    Not all so called U.S. citizens are mindless supporters of democracy.
  12. Biggles Custos morum Registered Senior Member

    So ,Corp.Hudson, what would you support? What's your alternative, please elaborate...

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    Last edited: Jul 4, 2001
  13. thecurly1 Registered Senior Member

    A dual reply...

    First Corp.Hudson, I am far from a mindless supporter of American democracy. As a matter of fact I may even be slightly more critical, on valid issues as you are. I don't support President Bush's decree of drilling for Alaskan oil which I view as unnecessary. I also had extreme doubts about the 2000 Election, I think more happened than we were told, and I don't think the Supreme Court should have stopped the recount. As a matter of fact the whole state should have been recounted.

    Biggles, that was a great reply to Corp.Hudson's doubts on democracy. Would you prefer to live under a communist police state, or a fascist state where you have absolutely no say in your government and what they do to you? I would find it interesting for anyone, especially American to prefer a totalitarian state, and give up their rights. Luckily we DON'T live in a totalitarian state, but one of democracy, which so far has proven a lot better system of governing than the alternative.

    Thanks again both of you for replying.
  14. Chagur .Seeker. Registered Senior Member

    The times they are a-changing ...

    If my math is correct, you weren't born until '86 (accepting your statement that you are fifteen years old), three years before the Berlin Wall came down ('89).

    Considering how things have gone for the people of Russia and in most of the other republics that formed the U.S.S.R. (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics), and the recent election of Putin in Russia, I'd say that there are quite a few people in that part of the world who would be more than happy to return to the 'bad old days'.

    Far closer to our shores, the Cuban people have for the past forty two years supported Castro and a government we have tried to destroy since its inception. Doesn't that strike you as a little odd? Particularly in light of the fact that Cuba has one of the highest literacy rates in the Western Hemisphere?

    Neither the Russian or the Cuban people are illiterate peasants thanks to the Socialist systems of government they lived under for a good number of years, yet neither are falling over themselves to embrace democratic capitalism. Ever wonder why?
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2001
  15. thecurly1 Registered Senior Member

    Good reply...

    Yes I am fifteen, so that does make me only three years old when the Berlin Wall fell. But I do know a lot about the Cold War. Socialism works great on paper, that's why it was highly enticing during the Great Depression, when it seemed like many of the democratic nations where crumbling. If my memory serves me correct the socialist party was elected in Britain during the twenties or thirties, don't quote me. Anyway, I'm not saying that socialism or communism can't do anything, it did make Russian citizens more educated than they where under the Czars but at what price? I thoroughly believe that freedom is something that should never be traded for any other prize for the public. Luckily for the Russians they barely got their freedom back.
    Putin took over as President after Yeltsin left at the start of 2000. He didn't get in there on the account of elections, though he was voted in later. I truly feel sorry for the Russians, who seem to be hard working, good hearted people who don't deserve the poverty that is taking place right now. There will be those who want the old guard returned, but they are generally older citizens, the youth hold the key to success in Russia. We must also remember that the Russian Federation is celebrating its 10th anniversary this year, and that democracy and a free market economy in Russia will not be an overnight success story. It took years for Taiwan and Japan to become great countries after their economies and societies had undergone great changes. I think that Russia is on the upswing and not the other way.

    I hope.
  16. Chagur .Seeker. Registered Senior Member

    I agree, thecurly1.

    Now, if we'd only get off Cuba's back.

    Enjoying having you around.
  17. ripleofdeath Registered Senior Member

    hey all
    im confused! -

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    which country is based on socialism?
    i have not heard of any
    maybe germany is close?
    enlighten me please
    or is someone confusing socialism with communisim?

    groove on all

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  18. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member


    I agree that there sould be some easings of the policies that the US has toward Cuba. But you gotta admit, Fidel has not made it any easier on himself. He has thumbed his nose at most oppurtunites or tried to embarass the US when he could get a free or cheap shot in. That's not the mark of someone you want to be trade partners with.

    In his favor, the US has not exactly been the best of neighbors either. But then I wouldn't want him to watch my back but I would rather wacth him real close after the missle crisis. At the time it was about 200 to 300 miles away from home. Just a short missle skip and a jump.

    He is now pretty much isolated from such prospects happening again. I know there is a large Hispanic culture in Miami who would love the chance to see family and relatives again. The only way they can now is to go somewhere out of the US and take a flight from there to Cuba. Cuba could do with some cash and trade but the tones would have to change and I don't think either is going to back down. As long as it remains in this state there will be no changes.
  19. thecurly1 Registered Senior Member

    When Castro dies, I think the regime will die with him...

    The real thing that kept Yugoslavia alive was Tito being their leader for so long. When Castro dies, (he's in his 80's now?) the people with help from the US will probably rise up against Castro and restore democracy in Cuba. Castro has largely wrecked his country, not the US. If he'd been a little bit softer we would have lifted the embargo.
  20. Corp.Hudson Registered Senior Member


    You say that when Castro dies, the people will rise up against him...

    So is Castro going to be a member of the living dead, or what?
  21. Corp.Hudson Registered Senior Member


    Sorry it took me so long to respond...

    What system would I prefer besides "democracy"?

    Before I state my preferred governmental system, I wanted to say that I found your responses interesting. It seems that the people of this board are unaware of any system of governance other then "Democracy" and dictatotorial systems.

    I personally think that tribalism is the best governmental system.

    It has survived 3 million years, it is highly adaptable (it works for small bands of people or vast nations), and those living under it are invariably better off then those not living under it.
  22. FA_Q2 Member Registered Senior Member

    What vast nation has a tribal government?

    It seems that even though you say how bad the US government is you haven't left it. Why are you still here?

    I would also like to say that the US is not a democracy. It is a republic.
  23. Corp.Hudson Registered Senior Member


    There were many large tribal nations, before the age of exploration.

    Probably the best example of a large tribal nation that was prosperous and well organized is the Cherokee Confederacy. Consisting of 13 states, a multicameral legislature, and a constitution, the Cherokee Confederacy was actually the largest influence on the founding fathers...many of them studied with the cherokee, and observed the government in action before even attempting to form the US government.

    And why am I still here?

    Well, geographically, the US is my home. I have spent all if my life in Colorado, it is what I know.

    Also, I don't share the belief that land can be owned. It is a foreign concept to me. So "leaving" the US is a simple process, and I plan on doing it on my 18th birthday.

    And the US is a democratic republic, btw.

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