An Alternative to Capitalism

Nasor said:
Inflation is about 3-4% annualy. It's pretty trivial compared to income tax.
What is your rate of GDP growth? India is leading the world, with 6%. China is ahead of the US, in second place (5%, I think). So what's the US? Do you see the obvious problem?


EDIT: Also, keep in mind that inflation is different with different products. The figure you showed is just the average. Search for CPI....
 
TruthSeeker said:
It's not that simple. The current education system only prepares people to work in the system. We need a system that teaches values and principles.

Isn't that the parents' job? Any one's values and principles can be different from anyothers. Should we force feed these principles down my throat or someone else's throat? I think it is perfectly acceptable to earn as much money and humanly possible... some do not.
 
Absane said:
Isn't that the parents' job?
Sure! And most parents have absolutely no idea what they are doing! So if we have schools to teach engineering, which is nearly not as important as parenting, why don't we ever give a shit about parenting!? :rolleyes:

Any one's values and principles can be different from anyothers. Should we force feed these principles down my throat or someone else's throat?
Ok then! So let's allow muslim children to believe that mutilating human beings in the name of Allah is perfectly acceptable, then! :rolleyes:

I think it is perfectly acceptable to earn as much money and humanly possible... some do not.
You mean "steal" from poor third world countries...
 
TruthSeeker said:
Sure! And most parents have absolutely no idea what they are doing! So if we have schools to teach engineering, which is nearly not as important as parenting, why don't we ever give a shit about parenting!? :rolleyes:

Then they shouldn't be parents.


Ok then! So let's allow muslim children to believe that mutilating human beings in the name of Allah is perfectly acceptable, then! :rolleyes:

That's called extremist Islam. That majority of Islamic followers don't want to kill people. Stop learning from the news. Oh wait.. they are sympathetic to the feelings of these extremists.

Anyway I was neglecting extremism.. which is bad in any system. I was talking "in general." Like capitalism verus socialism... or whatever.


You mean "steal" from poor third world countries...

How do I steal from third world countries? Or the US in general?
 
Last edited:
Absane said:
That's called extremist Islam. That majority of Islamic followers don't want to kill people. Stop learning from the news. Oh wait.. they are sympathetic to the feelings of these extremists.

Anyway I was neglecting extremism.. which is bad in any system. I was talking "in general." Like capitalism verus socialism... or whatever.
Well according to you, extremism is ok.

How do I steal from third world countries? Or the US in general?
Corporations.
 
TruthSeeker said:
Well according to you, extremism is ok.

Well I forgot to mention that. Sorry. In general. However... I ask. How do you know Osama is not correct? I'm not supporting him. I wish him dead. But I ask from an objective standpoint.


Corporations.

List a few and explain why/how they steal. Anyway I asked how I steal from the "third world." However, as you wish. Discuss.
 
Absane said:
Well I forgot to mention that. Sorry. In general. However... I ask. How do you know Osama is not correct? I'm not supporting him. I wish him dead. But I ask from an objective standpoint.
So killing is ok?

List a few and explain why/how they steal.
Classical examples:
Nike and Walmart- sweatshops in China
Nestle- introduced free baby formula in Africa claiming that it is better then breast milk, and when they ran out of milk supply (ya know, women run out of milk after not breastfeeding for a certain amount of time) they started charging. Millions of children die of starvation.

Anyway I asked how I steal from the "third world." However, as you wish. Discuss.
Outsourcing is the most used practiced of poverty exportation.
 
Anything that is taken is given freely. Money is offered for services and people, entirely by their own accord, flock to provide. In fact, if you removed that source of supposed 'exploitation', a fair number of people would probably have nowhere to turn except for the grim reaper.

Make sure you don't kill anyone with your charity, ok?
 
A REAL ALTERNATIVE TO CAPITALISM... is love and sharing.

for 100,000 years or more... mankind, worked as family teams.. tribes.

we had no need of money, or buisness or any such nonsense.

we all simply lived, and shared.. and worked together for common goals.

we could still do that.

-MT
 
Clockwood said:
Anything that is taken is given freely. Money is offered for services and people, entirely by their own accord, flock to provide. In fact, if you removed that source of supposed 'exploitation', a fair number of people would probably have nowhere to turn except for the grim reaper.

Make sure you don't kill anyone with your charity, ok?
Not true. Outsourcing destroy local jobs all over the world. Jobs that would give a whole lot more to people, if they weren't destroyed by the big multinationals.
 
Mosheh Thezion said:
THE ONLY alternate to capitalism, is.... to regulate it... in moderation and in cycles as needed.

many people like to blame capitalism for poverty.

but poverty is caused by greed, selfishness and heartlessness.

of which many here show an abundance of.

-MT

Depends. Poverty is caused by many factors. Geography, disease, wars, greedy capitalist creditors who'd rather see a poor country collapse into further poverty (and see millions die) than see their debt repayments postponed for a year or two, greedy/naive/inexperienced/untrained governments of the poor countries, lack of education, poor economic planning and economic policies, poor central banking decisions, people like us who choose not to donate to the poor countries (but complain about it all the time), famine, drought, and maybe laziness (but that's a very small minority, because there are very very very very few people who'd choose to do nothing and starve rather than work and eat).

The problem is a lot of people assume it's the final reason (laziness). They think that if poor people (in Africa, for example) got off their butts and worked, they wouldn't be in a mess. That right there is the most flawed bit of idiotic reasoning EVER. Compare African climate to the rest of the world. Compare African soil nutrients to the rest of the world. Compare Africa's modern history to the rest of the world (Slavery for a couple of hundred years; then colonialism that ROBBED their countries of advancement, education, nutrition, natural resources, innovation, and natural movement of ideas and technologies; and now tough and unfair import restrictions on African goods flowing to us while trying to force African nations to let down their restrictions on our products, robbing them of a chance to expand their industries and businesses; and crippling debts that we Westerners are forcing down on them, with impossible debt repayment plans. Africa also has no capable road systems and don't have the money to build them. They are racked with diseases like malaria and AIDS, and it's killing their important societal figures: teachers, middle aged workers, children, and farmers. We Westerners give VERY little to Africa in terms of foreign aid. Complain and whine all you want about how generous we are, but that amount itself is pitiful to what would get Africa off it's feet and on to a better path. I think per capita spending on Afican health and medicine is $10. In North America it's in the 100s or 1000s of $ per year, and we're still obese and sick.

If I had to place blame on African poverty, I'd probably put 50% of it on North Americans (like me) and Europe, 40% of it on their natural habitat (bad climate, short growing seasons, bad soil, little rain, ideal tropical conditions for mosquitoes to flourish, etc...), and 10% on the dictators/fake democratic leaders/autocrats/etc... for robbing their own country of money and foreign aid.

In addition, paraphrasing Colin Powell: The war on terror is tied to the war on poverty. You help eliminate poverty, then you'll start a chain reaction that will eventually lead to eliminating a whole host of things that plague us today:

1. Once poverty is eliminated, birth rates will go down to manageable levels. That will free up more resources to spend on less people.

2. With more resources to spend, you can invest in further improving infrastructure, research (e.g. more efficient crop yields, seeds, technology specific to Africa, medicine, etc...). This in turn leads to more jobs.

3. Education will increase as families can afford to send their children to school (because they have less children) and have more disposable income.

4. Increased education means better trained workers of the future and more opportunities to improve their own country.

5. Improved education means a more broad understanding of the world, instead of hateful rhetoric taught by religious leaders and corrupt warlords. With that, terrorism will decrease as people choose to study and work instead of kill and spread fear.

6. All this will lead to better relations with the industrialized countries, breaking down economic barriers, bilateral relations, and a march towards democracy and freedom.

All that, because you rid the developing world of povery.
 
I would like to add a little bit, though.

There's an opposrtunity cost to this stupid war. The money used in this stupid war, could have been used to erradicate poverty in the Middle East, which would have almost completely stopped terrorism.

Poverty alone is not all. Good parenting can do wonders in this world. Of course, it is way easier to be a good parent when you have enough money.
 
TruthSeeker said:
I've noticed from the thread "Does capitalism work?" that a lot of people here knows that capiatlism doesn't work. So I wonder which other system could be used...

(1) But first, we need to lay down the imperfections of capitalism,

(2) and to define why we created capitalism in the first place- that is, the purpose of capitalism. That also include the goals we wish to achieve with our new system.

(3) After that, we need to find alternative solutions to the specific problems that capitalism attempts to solve, while keeping in mind the lessons we have learnt from capitalism.

(4) Finally, we need to find a way to work those solutions together in a concise, efficient and precise system.


...
So who's up for all that work? :eek:


PS: A few alternatives that already exist....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communitarianism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism



Capitalism is just a system which organizes people. It's a tool, how are you going to organize them?
 
TruthSeeker said:
Not true. Outsourcing destroy local jobs all over the world. Jobs that would give a whole lot more to people, if they weren't destroyed by the big multinationals.

Create new jobs then. Start a local investment club, and fund a local business, and if you can't do this, then start a venture capital company and invest in businesses that arent outsourceable or that would provide the most jobs for the buck.
 
TimeTraveler said:
Capitalism is just a system which organizes people. It's a tool, how are you going to organize them?
The same way modern Human Resource Management does- information technology.
 
TimeTraveler said:
Create new jobs then. Start a local investment club, and fund a local business, and if you can't do this, then start a venture capital company and invest in businesses that arent outsourceable or that would provide the most jobs for the buck.
That only solves the problem in the short-run. How about creating sustainable communities? Overconsumption of goods can never lead to a sustainable system.
 
Back
Top