Al Franken is Gone, Sexual Harassment Allegations are Harming Democrats

[ElectricFetus]

Al Franken is going to step down because of the allegations against him. On a tactical level this sucks, because how can we insure we can replace him with a democrat? On a strategic level it is long shot, for some politicians like Roy (we will see how the Alabama election goes) or Trump may be completely immune to sexual misconduct allegations, this could lead to a copying of their strategy of deny and immediately sue their accusers for slander, in short Franken's apology was seen as admission of guilt for any allegation. This could lead to an atmosphere in which politicians become even more recalcitrant, an attitude that favors the right.

The logic is simple: the right don't believe an accusation against their candidate/politicians, it does not matter how much evidence, it is all "fake news" to them. The Left on the other hand do, and as a results democrat candidates/politicians can be taken down while the republicans can't.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/06/al-franken-senate-smith-211125
https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...-seat-but-minnesotas-not-as-blue-as-it-seems/

 

[spidergoat]

On a strategic level, it's critical to make a moral distinction between the parties.

 

[ElectricFetus]

On a strategic level, it's critical to make a moral distinction between the parties.

What use are morals if evil wins the government? Morally we can't simply believe ANY allegation without proof or criminal trial, either that or the morally devoid like Donald Trump will pussy grab their way to the presidency every time while left wing politicians are stuck careerless and apologizing endlessly for accusations. And the political, social and moral damage republican domination will do is simply unacceptable.

 

[spidergoat]

The Republicans won by creating moral confusion about Hillary. Morally, we are obligated to consider the preponderance of the evidence. Personal testimony isn't proof, but multiple, independent, contemporary testimonies about relatively ordinary events can constitute compelling circumstantial evidence. These accusations aren't arbitrarily taking down innocent people, I'm not too worried about that.

 

[ElectricFetus]

The Republicans won by creating moral confusion about Hillary. Morally, we are obligated to consider the preponderance of the evidence. Personal testimony isn't proof, but multiple, independent, contemporary testimonies about relatively ordinary events can constitute compelling circumstantial evidence. These accusations aren't arbitrarily taking down innocent people, I'm not too worried about that.

It is the evil that can get away because ONLY democrats consider sexual harassment claims as proof of guilt. Consider Roy again:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...minds-about-roy-moore/?utm_term=.6f44768d8c31

Look at that, they are willing to disbelieve the claims against him, why? because they can't handle a 'godless baby killing' democrat representing their 'god fearing christian' state. Meanwhile we all know Bill Clinton molested women, yet would you rather have had Bob Dole?

We already know the right wing are willing to create false accusation to prove their "fake news" narrative, how long until they churn up multiple, hard to disprove, claims against any democrat they want? Criminal accusations should be judged in a court of law or ethic committee, not by a lynch mob.

 

[origin]

The Democrats are being all moral and doing the right thing. The Republicans are just denying everything. They are saying all the women are liars and the guys didn't do anything. Trump has gone as far as to say the tape of him bragging about how he gropes women is a fake recording.

So what do you think? Will the American public go with the party of liars and deniers or with the party that takes responsibility.

I no longer have any faith in the American electorate so I am afraid we will elect the liars, hell we already did with Liar-in-Chief.

 

[Kittamaru]

The Democrats are being all moral and doing the right thing. The Republicans are just denying everything. They are saying all the women are liars and the guys didn't do anything. Trump has gone as far as to say the tape of him bragging about how he gropes women is a fake recording.

So what do you think? Will the American public go with the party of liars and deniers or with the party that takes responsibility.

I no longer have any faith in the American electorate so I am afraid we will elect the liars, hell we already did with Liar-in-Chief.

Aye... sadly, those brainwashed by the GOP aren't likely to recognize reality even if it smacked them in the face... much less acknowledge it as such. Unfortunately, this just means that "playing by the rules" is an instant recipe to fail so long as the GOP has any influence whatsoever... I mean, fuck, in PA, their argument in the Gerrymandering case is that "it's not illegal to rig election lines to favor a party"... seriously? When the defense can be that blunt about it, and not immediately lose the case... well, how fucked are we?

 

[Bowser]

The logic is simple: the right don't believe an accusation against their candidate/politicians, it does not matter how much evidence, it is all "fake news" to them. The Left on the other hand do, and as a results democrat candidates/politicians can be taken down while the republicans can't.

Or it might be the precursor for the future. Do you trust those who recognize their shortcomings, or those who claim to have none?

 

[gmilam]

We all have the vote, so the government we have must be the government we want, right?

 

[Kittamaru]

We all have the vote, so the government we have must be the government we want, right?

Except for gerrymandering, extreme lobbying, extensive campaign bribery, er, finance "reform", and the numerous instances of Voting machines found to be vulnerable to (or having been subject to) potential tampering.

 

[spidergoat]

So what do you think? Will the American public go with the party of liars and deniers or with the party that takes responsibility.

I'm pretty sure responsibility is the winning position. The current Republican party seems increasingly desperate for votes, hence the dirty dealing.

 

[ElectricFetus]

Or it might be the precursor for the future. Do you trust those who recognize their shortcomings, or those who claim to have none?

I does not matter who I trust, it matters who enough voters trust, apparently anyone, literally anyone with a (R) by there name.

I'm pretty sure responsibility is the winning position. The current Republican party seems increasingly desperate for votes, hence the dirty dealing.

The present republican party control everything, elected a fucking pussy garbing pig boar as president no less. Though they are destine to loss seats in the 2018 election that is simply historical precedent that what ever party holds the presidency almost always looses seats in the house and the senate, it has nothing to do with them being lying pieces of shit: their fanatic voters will vote for them no matter what.

 

[spidergoat]

The present republican party control everything, elected a fucking pussy garbing pig boar as president no less. Though they are destine to loss seats in the 2018 election that is simply historical precedent that what ever party holds the presidency almost always looses seats in the house and the senate, it has nothing to do with them being lying pieces of shit: their fanatic voters will vote for them no matter what.

The fanatic faction won't likely become the majority. They depend on low voter turnout, low passion, and a chaotic Democratic Party. This was a perfect storm of rural white rage. I'm not at all dispirited by temporary wins. Don't forget, the GOP MO is all about short term gains, and stealing from the future. They are hurting themselves, because the direction of society is towards greater social justice, not less.

 

[Bowser]

I does not matter who I trust, it matters who enough voters trust, apparently anyone, literally anyone with a (R) by there name.

Would you trust those whose faults were easily identified or those whose faults were well concealed? Franken's recognition that he screwed up would have been enough for me. There was no need for him to step down, other than to satisfy our vindictive desires.

 

[ElectricFetus]

The fanatic faction won't likely become the majority. They depend on low voter turnout, low passion, and a chaotic Democratic Party. This was a perfect storm of white rage. I'm not at all dispirited by their temporary power grab. Don't forget, the GOP MO is all about short term gains, and stealing from the future. They are hurting themselves, because the direction of society is towards greater social justice, not less.

Your faith in a progressive future is cute, I see no reason to believe the opposite, that as the rich get their tax plan then the public gets more irate and a revolution happens and a new totalitarian goverment kills us all. In short either social justice OR the poor kill the rich and the rich kill the poor. I see no reason things will get better in a sensible civil manner, historically much blood is spilled and I see no reason that dynamics is not also in the direction of society. Trump is just the tip of the iceberg, what happens when that white rage decide to fire their precious guns?

More so if the direction of social justices is in claims of sexual abuse instead of law and order, I think we are fucked. If that is our future, which by the away the republicans are apparently immune to, it is one where republicans can get any democrat removed by hiring a few anonymous women to make claims of sexual assault. Again I ask you would you rather have had Bob Dole, over Bill Clinton? And that was proven sexual abuse, just wait until the republicans start making shit up!

 

[birch]

Franken's recognition that he screwed up would have been enough for me.

No, not for a position of authority. That's the price you pay when you want a position of authority is that you must have better moral character and judgement as you are in a position of greater power over others.

It's not about being vindictive at all. the problem with just a lip service apology is that it can give anyone who is not even genuine the idea that one can do anything and get away with it if they just make a simple apology afterward.

 

[ElectricFetus]

Would you trust those whose faults were easily identified or those whose faults were well concealed? Franken's recognition that he screwed up would have been enough for me. There was no need for him to step down, other than to satisfy our vindictive desires.

Hey I have no problem with Franken, aside for having voted against him in the primary in 2008, his performance as senate has been good, not great.

The problem is that the republicans don't operate under the same morality, they can literally grab pussy without asking and become president, their voters base has no problem voting for the most morally reprehensible pieces of shit so long as it has an (R) by its name.

Back to Franken, I honestly don't care, unless a criminal trial or a senate ethics committee declares him guilty of misconduct, but with how democrats do not have the loyal voter base republicans have, his chances of losing the election of 2020 were good, so him resigning and being replaced may make sense.

 

[mathman]

Franken's resignation may shame the Republicans in the Senate to expel Moore, once he is elected.

 

[Bowser]

No, not for a position of authority. That's the price you pay when you want a position of authority is that you must have better moral character and judgement as you are in a position of greater power over others.

It's not about being vindictive at all. the problem with just a lip service apology is that it can give anyone who is not even genuine the idea that one can do anything and get away with it if they just make a simple apology afterward

You will never find the perfect human, no matter how hard you search. People screw up, Birch.

 

[Bowser]

The problem is that the republicans don't operate under the same morality, they can literally grab pussy without asking and become president, their voters base has no problem voting for the most morally reprehensible pieces of shit so long as it has an (R) by its name.

The thing about a Republican is that his ass is always bare for all to see. The same was true for Bernie Sanders, only his objectives were quite the opposite. As for Hillary, well, we could only assume she was perfection, since she constantly reminded us. I can appreciate you because I feel I know you, nothing seems to be hidden.