Aircraft carriers - ramps - makes less than zero sense to me

Sarkus;

In the video I watched a pickup pull a portable 'runway' in the -x direction while a pilot flew his small 'cub' class plane off the 'runway' in the +x direction. Takeoff speed would have been approx. 50 mph. It is a real world demonstration that it can be done, and without any sophisticated high tech preparation.

Whatever the source of the mental block, lack of in depth analysis, fixation on one factor over all others, etc., seeing is believing.
It isn't necessary to remove friction, and it's needed if the pilot wants to apply brakes.

My error is to visualize the typical conveyor operation of moving material, which is held in place by friction. If a small cylinder is placed on a sheet of paper, and the paper is slowly pulled in the -x direction, the cylinder, having near zero contact with the paper, will acquire a small torque around its center, causing it to roll in the +direction, contrary to typical conveyor operation. The wheel is the cylinder in the airplane case and it is rotating in the +x direction. The motion of a conveyor belt can only increase its rotation rate via friction. Yes these factors were mentioned, but understanding comes when you can explain it to yourself.
 
exchemist said:
Ahhh. The ghost of Motor Daddy is laid to rest.................:biggrin:
Click to expand...

Motor Daddy took his super-human knowledge of physics with him, wherever he went. We shall never know his secret. I still have faith that phyti will continue to do physics like MD in the future.
 
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Neddy Bate said:
Motor Daddy took his super-human knowledge of physics with him, wherever he went. We shall never know his secret. I still have faith that phyti will continue to do physics like MD in the future.
Click to expand...

I hear he's been hanging out here:

https://ilovephilosophy.com

Come join me...I mean him... LOL

Hi Neddy!!!

rpenner,
The sides are 1.77...units, which is close enough! Done deal! A thing of real beauty!

https://imgur.com/tR0FPxH
 
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Jonathan Ainsley Bain said:
There are basically two types of fixed-wing aircraft carriers.
Those that use a 'ramp' and those that use a catapult to
help with the launch of the aircraft.

Now the catapult (steam or electric) is not the issue here.
They seem fine ; but are only used by the French and Americans.

But for the life of me, that ramp which the rest of them use makes
less than zero sense. Because in order to gain that extra height
the aircraft must lose horizontal velocity.

But a loss in horizontal velocity INCREASES the chance of a stall.
And horizontal velocity is what the catapult adds to assist the aircraft.

Jumping in the air is not flying. The wing requires horizontal velocity
to generate vortexes which cause lift. Flying up, is not lift.
So actually it would be better to not have anything than that ramp.

After all, the American navy does not seem to use ramps anywhere
from what i can see. And it certainly is a much cheaper solution.
That catapult is a huge maintenance problem.

Thoughts, anyone?
(Please no search-copy-pastes, if you really understand this, in your own
words or in a graphic image you have made yourself.)
Click to expand...

No horizontal velocity is created, in fact, velocity increase rate, if not actual is decreased as soon as the aircraft encounters the ramp. All that is "created" is altitude with provides distance from the sea allowing a bit more time for acceleration to flying speed. Given the effects of temperature, barometric pressure, weather, weight, etc. on lift thus required flying speed, the ramp concept limits operational capability. The catapult can be adjusted to overcome all variables to achieve the required speed under any conditions and reasonable loads.
That's why America used catapults. Ramps are cheaper in construction and require little maintenance. That's why the others use them.
 
Motor Daddy said:
I hear he's been hanging out here:

https://ilovephilosophy.com

Come join me...I mean him... LOL

Hi Neddy!!!

rpenner,
The sides are 1.77...units, which is close enough! Done deal! A thing of real beauty!

https://imgur.com/tR0FPxH
Click to expand...
phyti said:
Sarkus;

In the video I watched a pickup pull a portable 'runway' in the -x direction while a pilot flew his small 'cub' class plane off the 'runway' in the +x direction. Takeoff speed would have been approx. 50 mph. It is a real world demonstration that it can be done, and without any sophisticated high tech preparation.

Whatever the source of the mental block, lack of in depth analysis, fixation on one factor over all others, etc., seeing is believing.
It isn't necessary to remove friction, and it's needed if the pilot wants to apply brakes.

My error is to visualize the typical conveyor operation of moving material, which is held in place by friction. If a small cylinder is placed on a sheet of paper, and the paper is slowly pulled in the -x direction, the cylinder, having near zero contact with the paper, will acquire a small torque around its center, causing it to roll in the +direction, contrary to typical conveyor operation. The wheel is the cylinder in the airplane case and it is rotating in the +x direction. The motion of a conveyor belt can only increase its rotation rate via friction. Yes these factors were mentioned, but understanding comes when you can explain it to yourself.
Click to expand...
that’s like a car hitting the red line
 
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