>this is the problem with you so-called scientists around here. you want facts and specificity yet when it's your turn you jumble it all together and mess the whole thing up!>
This thread starts with the statment 'AIDS is biowarfare'; I’m taking it that only humans engage in bio warfare, hence the implication that this thread proposes that AIDS and HIV is man made, unless you don’t link HIV with AIDS which would lead to a different discussion –I agree. I wasn’t saying that You propose, but that the tread is proposing an argument for discussion.
From the links I find the argument consists of the following
1) That HIV can pass through condoms ‘’holes’;
While holes large enough for HIV to pass through have been found in natural membrane condoms, latex condoms do not allow the HIV to pass through the condom unless the condom has been damaged or torn.
http://www.safersex.org/condoms/work/ss6.4.html
2) Where has it been for the last 5000 years. AIDS as a Weapon of War by Dr. William Campbell Douglas, M.D.
In chimps.
3) The soviets accused the US of master mining the AIDS/HIV virus.
They also accused them of not landing on the moon…
So at the end of the article it comes to;
4) 1. The green velvet monkey of Africa doesn't get human AIDS. You
can't reproduce the disease in monkeys even by injecting AIDS virus directly into them.
2. After injecting the virus into monkeys, you can't transmit it to other monkeys, much less to humans.
3. Genetically, AIDS (HIV-1) is not even close to the monkey form of immunodeficiency virus.Ed. Note: For references on the three items above, see: Seale, Dr. John J.,Royal Society of Medicine, Sept. 1987, Seale, Dr. John J.,The Origin of AIDS -- International Conference on AIDS, Cairo, March 1988.]
4. AIDS started not in the villages but in the cities of Africa, where there are no wild monkeys.
5. The doubling time of AIDS infection being about 12 months, one monkey biting one native and then spreading the disease would have taken 20 years to reach a million cases. Seventy-five million Africans became infected practically simultaneously. At the same time, the disease became rampant in the U.S., Haiti and Brazil.
If the first case was in 1965 and the frist US cases were in the 1980’s…Interestingly Africa did not show infection until the upper classes became infected.
so in answer.....
‘Then came the conspiracy theorists. One of the first was British doctor John Seale, who published an article in the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine in 1985 that claimed the US Army had concocted HIV out of genetic material from viruses causing bovine leukemia, visna in sheep, lentiviruses from horses and goats, and human T-cell leukemia/lymphocyte virus. The recipe, Seale said, had been cooked up at Fort Detrick, Maryland, in 1977. Lying behind Seale's thesis were two articles that had appeared the same year in Literaturnaya Gazeta, the journal of the Soviet Writer's Union, and told much the same story. According to Professor S. Drozdov of the Research Institute of Poliomyelitis and Encephalitis in Moscow, the CIA had let the virus loose by testing it on federal prisoners in the USA and in the field in Africa.
None of these claims bore much relation to scientific or to historical facts. The earliest identified AIDS cases date back to 1959, when the concept of genetic coding was unknown. Reverse transcriptase was discovered in 1970, and retroviruses were discovered in people in 1978. But it was not until 1983 that the technique of polymerase chain reaction, which revolutionized research into and manipulation of DNA, was invented. Essentially the cloning technology that the 'invention' of HIV requires did not exist in 1977. In 1986, the Soviets admitted they had their own cases of AIDS, and after the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989 the Soviet Academy of Sciences apologized for disseminating the notion that AIDS was an American invention, an idea that, it
admitted, had been inspired by the KGB. The US State Department had already concluded as much, and believed the accusations were designed to discredit the USA in developing countries.’
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1999/jun/m23-016.shtml
Apart from the Dr Searle reference, which seems based on telling a good story without much scientific basis, I can’t find a reference to research. Did he ever prove that in the technology from 1980’s could use the ‘genetic material from viruses causing bovine leukemia, visna in sheep, lentiviruses from horses and goats, and human T-cell leukemia/lymphocyte virus’ to put together to form HIV-1? And then use the resulting viruse to infect human tissue? And how did he explain HIV-2?
I do sympathise the feeling in the 1980’s there was much alarm about where the mystery disease was from. The US and the Soviets were doing much which was hidden, but much like Iraq, most of it was on paper. The Strecker Memorandum needs to prove that the required technology was in existence, and that the research groups existed, and preferable eye witness testimony. The main reason I’m distasteful toward the Strecker Memorandrum is that I don’t see the need for it to explain the rise of HIV and AIDS, and the burden of proof is thus on those opposing the majority view of HIV and AIDS as a non-man made viruses.
Now on an interesting side point. There are some who would say that the Nazi testing never happened
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/040127/323/ekfto.html has a good article on just how hard it is to prove that such actions took place.
