AI is ridiculous concept that many misinterpret.

[Michael 345]

Anyone who knows any computer language and code knows A.I. as perceived by the world is utter nonsense.

http://www.sciforums.com/members/sagar-gorijala.288840/

Looks like AI has got to the stage where it can put a word salad together which .... what???

Make pronouncements

 

[Michael 345]

Is AI closer?

https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.amp...de-brain-speech-signals-into-actual-sentences

 

[Bob-a-builder]

@ Billvon,

It seems like you are an active member here. I guess that makes you king troll as your intelligence seems lacking.

I invite everyone to re-read Billvons last posting and see if it makes a lick of sense.

A computer CAN NEVER... EVER... EVER... THINK... (PERIOD!). That especially includes random numbers.

You think your PUF method of arriving at random numbers sounds like a romper room grade school whining more than anything sensical.

If software seeks variables outside its programming like where the second hand is on a watch to arrive at a random number between 1 and 60 (in essence what it does even if it is above your intelligence level to grasp)
THEN IT IS NOT THINKING OF A RANDOM NUMBER... IT IS GETTING IT FROM THE SECOND HAND OF THE WATCH... PUF' are just a fancier method of doing just that even if it is beyond your cranial capacity (Billvon/king troll).

GOOGLE SEARCH HERE.... https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...hUKEwi4qeeIlefjAhVSXc0KHXmgBlMQ4dUDCAo&uact=5


You can push your woo that computers are internally generating random numbers

Also you are cluesless that even today every program is reliant upon IF/THEN statements in most every line. Some algoryths will use hundreds of comparison statements.

In the YEAR (you seem like a very uneducated programmer) since YOU learned BASIC programming has never evolved past using ONLY IF/THEN statements...

If you cannot recall your basic classes... IF/THEN statements are the bulk of all programming... ALWAYS! This will not change just because you do not have the brain capacity to grasp it or if you whine about how it is not true.

How do you think programming works? (Please dont answer... I'm sick of your spewing nonsense stuff).

Maybe you can demonstrate ANY PROGRAM... IN ANY LANGUAGE OF YOUR CHOICE. That is not fully reliant upon if/then statements.

Without an if-then statement you mioght be able to print yyour name upon the screen.. nothing more.

I didn't reply to your above nonsense right away as i wanted your idiocy to be on display for all to see.

You may not grasp how idiotic your last posting was... someone with a more intelligence might.

Here is a sample of what programmers do...

importjava.util.Arrays;
importorg.slf4j.Logger;
importorg.slf4j.LoggerFactory;

/**
* Java program to removeduplicatesfrom this array. You don't
* need to physically delete duplicate elements, replacing with null, or
* empty or default value is ok.
*
* @author http://javarevisited.blogspot.com
*/
publicclassTechnicalInterviewTest{

privatestaticfinalLogger logger = LoggerFactory.getLogger(TechnicalInterviewTest.class);

publicstaticvoidmain(String args[]) {

int[][] test =newint[][]{
{1,1,2,2,3,4,5},
{1,1,1,1,1,1,1},
{1,2,3,4,5,6,7},
{1,2,1,1,1,1,1},};

for(int[] input : test) {
System.out.println("Array with Duplicates : "+ Arrays.toString(input));
System.out.println("After removing duplicates : "+ Arrays.toString(removeDuplicates(input)));
}
}

/*
* Method to remove duplicates from array in Java, without using
* Collectionclassese.g. Set or ArrayList. Algorithm for this
* method is simple, it first sort the array and then compare adjacent
* objects, leaving out duplicates, which is already in theresult.
*/
publicstaticint[]removeDuplicates(int[] numbersWithDuplicates) {

// Sorting array to bring duplicates together
Arrays.sort(numbersWithDuplicates);
int[] result =newint[numbersWithDuplicates.length];
intprevious = numbersWithDuplicates[0];
result[0] = previous;

for(inti =1; i < numbersWithDuplicates.length; i++) {
intch = numbersWithDuplicates;

if(previous != ch) {
result = ch;
}
previous = ch;
}
returnresult;

}
}

Output :
Array with Duplicates : [1,1,2,2,3,4,5]
After removing duplicates : [1,0,2,0,3,4,5]
Array with Duplicates : [1,1,1,1,1,1,1]
After removing duplicates : [1,0,0,0,0,0,0]
Array with Duplicates : [1,2,3,4,5,6,7]
After removing duplicates : [1,2,3,4,5,6,7]
Array with Duplicates : [1,2,1,1,1,1,1]
After removing duplicates : [1,0,0,0,0,0,2]


Read more:[url]https://javarevisited.blogspot.com/2014/01/how-to-remove-duplicates-from-array-java-without-collection-API.html#ixzz5vYhjHaKh

Maybe you cannot see IF/THEN statements in the above because your brain only seems to understand BASIC (and not even that).

I invite you to show ANY PROGRAMMING.. IN ANY LANGUAGE.. to back up your woo claims that If/Then/else statements are not key to most every aspect of programming...

Every line of code is either
A) An IF/THEN STATEMENT ... (even if you cannot grasp that they exist in every language and not just our BASIC) is a part of every program. All computers can do is compare.
or
B) A direction for the computer to do something GUIDED BY COMPARISON IF/THEN statements.

There is no third type of code.

Sadly this simple knowledge will likely not sink into this Billvon person.

HOWEVER! I do invite BILLVON to give us his version of an "IF/THEN" free program... I mean there must be at least ONE(1) if his stupid claims are true?

Unles his claims are bogus.... Hmmm... That seems more accurate..

JUST ONE PROGRAM BILLVON... I'll accept portions of a program like an Algorithm also... I don't want to explain what they are but maybe someone will explain it to you.

Can BILLVON show us a single program that is not wholly reliant up-on IF/THEN statements to prove his sanity? Or will he instead argue nonsesne and state agian and again that he is right and everyone else is wrong. Sadly that is not scientific whatsoever... I mean why even bother with science whan we could just ask Billvon.

Just ONE (1) PROGRAM to back up your woo claims Billvon.. Just ONE (1).

That or whine some more that you are always right so we (Scientific establishment) must be wrong.










[/URL]

 

[TheFrogger]

For a=1 to 9

Print a

Next a

That code doesn't contain any if/then/else statements.

 

[billvon]

A computer CAN NEVER... EVER... EVER... THINK... (PERIOD!). That especially includes random numbers.

You are provably wrong. I gave a few examples.

You think your PUF method of arriving at random numbers sounds like a romper room grade school whining more than anything sensical.

PUF is just one way, used more often for software security than generating true random numbers. Intel's RDRND mechanism is much better, if generating a lot of random numbers is your goal (which it is in cryptography.) Your ignorance of that is not a sufficient argument to claim that RDRAND does not exist.

If software seeks variables outside its programming like where the second hand is on a watch to arrive at a random number between 1 and 60 (in essence what it does even if it is above your intelligence level to grasp)
THEN IT IS NOT THINKING OF A RANDOM NUMBER... IT IS GETTING IT FROM THE SECOND HAND OF THE WATCH

Correct. RDRND does not do that. It gets a random number by looking at thermal noise, an inherently random process.

You can push your woo that computers are internally generating random numbers

If you believe "facts"="woo" then you will not get very far in science.

Also you are cluesless that even today every program is reliant upon IF/THEN statements in most every line.

Just as every single one of your neurons does exactly the same thing. Fire or not fire. On or off. Yes or no. That's it.

In the YEAR (you seem like a very uneducated programmer) since YOU learned BASIC programming has never evolved past using ONLY IF/THEN statements...

Since I'm not claiming that, looks like your attack here has failed miserably.

Look, you are clearly completely ignorant of neural networks and random number generators - and talking about BASIC programming is not going to let you learn anything about those topics. Why not do some learning on that topic? Then you will not appear so foolish to everyone here.

 

[James R]

Bob-a-builder:

Two months on from the start of the thread and you're still arguing the same nonsense?

It seems like you are an active member here. I guess that makes you king troll as your intelligence seems lacking.

It sounds like you're unqualified to judge billvon's intelligence, so stop the personal insults, okay?

A computer CAN NEVER... EVER... EVER... THINK... (PERIOD!). That especially includes random numbers.

That's the same assertion that you started with 2 months ago. You're not presenting any new arguments to make your case. Maybe it's time to give up.

You can push your woo that computers are internally generating random numbers

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...hUKEwi4qeeIlefjAhVSXc0KHXmgBlMQ4dUDCAo&uact=5
There are a number of ways that computers can generate random numbers, as you have been informed. Sticking your head in the sand won't change that.

I'm also not sure why you're fixated on random numbers, when you're supposed to be talking about intelligence. Do you think the ability to generate random numbers is a signature of intelligence or something?

Also you are cluesless that even today every program is reliant upon IF/THEN statements in most every line.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...hUKEwi4qeeIlefjAhVSXc0KHXmgBlMQ4dUDCAo&uact=5
It sounds like you haven't read the source code of many programs.

Programs typically include variable assignments, branch instructions, subroutine and function calls, mathematical operations, input/output operations, data manipulation of many different types, and more.

Possibly you've been misled because you're only familiar with simple BASIC programming.

Maybe you can demonstrate ANY PROGRAM... IN ANY LANGUAGE OF YOUR CHOICE. That is not fully reliant upon if/then statements.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...hUKEwi4qeeIlefjAhVSXc0KHXmgBlMQ4dUDCAo&uact=5
TheFrogger gave you a short one just above. Oh, yeah, and there's another programming structure for you - iteration.

Without an if-then statement you mioght be able to print yyour name upon the screen.. nothing more.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...hUKEwi4qeeIlefjAhVSXc0KHXmgBlMQ4dUDCAo&uact=5
Nonsense. You really haven't done much programming, have you?

Every line of code is either
A) An IF/THEN STATEMENT ... (even if you cannot grasp that they exist in every language and not just our BASIC) is a part of every program. All computers can do is compare.
or
B) A direction for the computer to do something GUIDED BY COMPARISON IF/THEN statements.

There is no third type of code.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...hUKEwi4qeeIlefjAhVSXc0KHXmgBlMQ4dUDCAo&uact=5
Let's assume you're right. Then what?

You brain is a computer, too, so according to you it must be built of IF/THEN statements. Does that mean you're unintelligent?

 

[Steve Klinko]

Anyone who knows any computer language and code knows A.I. as perceived by the world is utter nonsense.

It is a credit to the ingenuity of mankind that we have created games and such where the bad guys appear to think, where computers can beat chess masters.

In truth. There is absolutely zero thought occurring.

Computers can do two(2) things only.

A) It can compare two values
B) It can turn a light on or off (and by light I mean switch - You have to watch your wording carefully on this forum)

Every line of computer code in every computer language is simply either
A) an if/then statement.
B) a direction to a switch/light.

IF X>Y go to Line 200 Else line 200 (type stuff).

A computer that actually thought would not even be practical.

If a computer was organic and grown. Then that is a life form and hardly a computer. I have seen such arguments. No algorithms can emulate true thought.

If you look at a flowchart for any computer software it has two(2) types of boxes.

A) Diamond shapes - These are decisions based on comparing values.
B) Boxes - These turn switches on and off.

There is no such box where a computer considers the task. There is no real bad guy in your PlayStation.

If a computer wins at chess, it is not because it is more imaginative. It wins because it has looked at every possible future move and calculates accordingly. Zero thought.

Hope this help some of the folk in this forum sleep better.

Want to put your mind at ease. Spend 1 hour learning to code.

No computer will ever be capable of true thought. Not unless its organic... and then its a life form

Yes.

The reality is that any Computer Language will be translated to Machine Code otherwise called Assembly Code. Here's all you have with a typical set of machine Code:

Math: Add, Sub, Mult, Div
Binary Logic: Or, And, Xor
Move Data: Mov RAM to RAM, Mov RAM to CPU, Move CPU to RAM,
Jump Execution: Unconditional, Conditional (=, <, >)

There isn't much else.

Which operation above is going to be a Thought for a Computer?

Furthermore:
Which operation will be an experience of Pain for the Computer?
Which operation will be an experience of Pleasure for the Computer?
Which operation will be an experience of Fear for the Computer? (I'm not getting into a Self Driving Car without this one)
Etc.?

 

[billvon]

The reality is that any Computer Language will be translated to Machine Code otherwise called Assembly Code. Here's all you have with a typical set of machine Code:

And the reality of your brain is that it is made of neurons. And every single neuron only does one of two things - it fires or it doesn't fire.

Which neuron will be an experience of fear for you?
Which neuron will be an experience of love?
Which neuron will be an experience of loyalty?

Please identify these neurons in your brain!

 

[Write4U]

Furthermore:
Which operation will be an experience of Pain for the Computer?

One of the strengths of AI is that it can operate in hazardous environments without feeling pain.

Which operation will be an experience of Pleasure for the Computer?

For what purpose? AI do not need to feel pleasure to perform at maximum efficiency..

Which operation will be an experience of Fear for the Computer? (I'm not getting into a Self Driving Car without this one)

What is the benefit of fear when accurate corrective operations to potentially dangerous situations can be performed at much faster rate by AI, than human response?
Calculus is a particular strength of computers.

Etc.?

AI do not need any human emotions, such as motive or incentive. They can be programmed for analysis of environmental properties.

They do as programmed to do, without complaint, fatigue, or individual desires.

The three laws of robotics are not based on emotion, they are based on programmed permissions and restrictions.

 

[Write4U]

How Google Deep Dream Works
BY NATHAN CHANDLER

From a distance, Deep Dream images look almost normal, but then you realize that all the shapes are made up of odd composite elements.

DEEP DREAM UPLOAD BY HOWSTUFFWORKS STAFF

The millions of computers on our planet never need to sleep. But that doesn't stop them from dreaming. While we humans work, play and rest, our machines are ceaselessly reinterpreting old data and even spitting out all sorts of new, weird material, in part thanks to Google Deep Dream.

Deep Dream is computer program that locates and alters patterns that it identifies in digital pictures. Then it serves up those radically tweaked images for human eyes to see. The results veer from silly to artistic to nightmarish, depending on the input data and the specific parameters set by Google employees' guidance.

One of the best ways to understand what Deep Dream is all about is to try it yourself. Google made its dreaming computers public to get a better understanding of how Deep Dream manages to classify and index certain types of pictures. You can upload any image you like to Google's program, and seconds later you'll see a fantastical rendering based on your photograph.

https://computer.howstuffworks.com/google-deep-dream.htm#

I have read that many dictionaries make reference to other dictionaries and when there is a difference in definition, this may cause an extended exchange of definitions until all AI settle on an acceptable form.

 

[Steve Klinko]

One of the strengths of AI is that it can operate in hazardous environments without feeling pain.
For what purpose? AI do not need to feel pleasure to perform at maximum efficiency..
What is the benefit of fear when accurate corrective operations to potentially dangerous situations can be performed at much faster rate by AI, than human response?
Calculus is a particular strength of computers.
AI do not need any human emotions, such as motive or incentive. They can be programmed for analysis of environmental properties.

They do as programmed to do, without complaint, fatigue, or individual desires.

The three laws of robotics are not based on emotion, they are based on programmed permissions and restrictions.

I had assumed that the OP was about what Computers can and cannot do with AI. Many people believe that Computers can actually Think, and the Marketing Hype around that is almost unethical. I don't, and the OP doesn't, care about Why we would want Computers to Think or have Emotions. What OP says and what I say is that it is ridiculous to even think Computers are doing any of that or can do any of that.

 

[billvon]

Many people believe that Computers can actually Think, and the Marketing Hype around that is almost unethical.

Depends on your definition of "think." If it's one of the common dictionary definitions, like "direct one's mind toward someone or something; use one's mind actively to form connected ideas" then programs do actually think. Witness the marketing AI who knows when a woman is pregnant before her husband does.

 

[Steve Klinko]

Depends on your definition of "think." If it's one of the common dictionary definitions, like "direct one's mind toward someone or something; use one's mind actively to form connected ideas" then programs do actually think. Witness the marketing AI who knows when a woman is pregnant before her husband does.

The thinking was done by the programmers not the machine. The IBM Watson didn't win Jeopardy but a team of Engineers and Programmers won Jeopardy. I hope you don't believe your home thermostat cycles the AC on because it periodically Thinks it is too hot.

 

[DaveC426913]

The thinking was done by the programmers not the machine. The IBM Watson didn't win Jeopardy but a team of Engineers and Programmers won Jeopardy.

Then you might as well say you don't think at all, it was actually your parents who did that for you.

No, the engineers gave a computer the ability to learn - to figure out for itself the logic that links questions and answers - something the engineers did not give it in the first place.

 

[billvon]

The thinking was done by the programmers not the machine.

Incorrect! The basic programming was done by programmers, but the learning was done by the machine itself. Nowadays complex AI tasks are trained, not programmed.

The IBM Watson didn't win Jeopardy but a team of Engineers and Programmers won Jeopardy.

That's like saying you didn't succeed - any successes you had were because your parents made you.

I hope you don't believe your home thermostat cycles the AC on because it periodically Thinks it is too hot.

Nope. My thermostat is quite dumb; no learning at all.

 

[Steve Klinko]

Then you might as well say you don't think at all, it was actually your parents who did that for you.

No, the engineers gave a computer the ability to learn - to figure out for itself the logic that links questions and answers - something the engineers did not give it in the first place.

Saying the Computer learned is like saying a Library learned when a new book was added.

 

[Steve Klinko]

Incorrect! The basic programming was done by programmers, but the learning was done by the machine itself. Nowadays complex AI tasks are trained, not programmed.

That's like saying you didn't succeed - any successes you had were because your parents made you.

Nope. My thermostat is quite dumb; no learning at all.

But Learning is not Thinking. Neural Nets do Pattern Matching and that's it. There is no Thinking coming out of Neural Nets. That's pure superstition and Science Fiction.

You're being pretty mean to your Thermostat.

 

[billvon]

But Learning is not Thinking. Neural Nets do Pattern Matching and that's it.

And at a high level that's all you do, too.

Saying the Computer learned is like saying a Library learned when a new book was added.

Nope. You actually have to read the book (or train the AI) to learn something.

 

[DaveC426913]

Saying the Computer learned is like saying a Library learned when a new book was added.

No it isn't. Not at all.

You really should bring your understanding of computers into the 21st century.

 

[Write4U]

I had assumed that the OP was about what Computers can and cannot do with AI. Many people believe that Computers can actually Think, and the Marketing Hype around that is almost unethical. I don't, and the OP doesn't, care about Why we would want Computers to Think or have Emotions. What OP says and what I say is that it is ridiculous to even think Computers are doing any of that or can do any of that.

Well, this "learning" computer beat the 9th dan world champion in Go, the most intuitive game in the world.

Google’s AI beats world Go champion in first of five matches

In a landmark battle between man and artificial intelligence (AI), a champion of the game Go was narrowly defeated by his computer opponent.

Google's DeepMind AlphaGo program beat South Korea's Lee Se-dol in the first of a series of games in Seoul.

In October 2015,

AlphaGo beat the European Go champion, an achievement that was not expected for years.

A computer has beaten the world chess champion, but the Chinese game Go is seen as significantly more complex.

Algorithm vs intuition

The five-day battle is being seen as a major test of what scientists and engineers have achieved in the sphere of artificial intelligence.

Go is a 3,000-year old Chinese board game and is considered to be a lot more complex than chess where artificial intelligence scored its most famous victory to date when IBM's Deep Blue beat grandmaster Gary Kasparov in 1997.

But experts say Go presents an entirely different challenge because of the game's incomputable number of move options which means that the computer must be capable of human-like "intuition" to prevail.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-35761246#:[/quote]
Actually the AlphaGo AI beat Lee Se-dol 4 out of 5 games. The AI invented completely new strategies which had never been played before by humans in this 3500 year old game.

And Go is not a purely mathematical game. It is too complex with too many variables to respond to specific strategies as with chess. Time restrictions prevent the full calculation of all possible moves and their responses

Shen Kuo, a Chinese scholar in 11th century, estimated that the number of possible board positions is around 10172 in The Dream Pool Essays. In more recent years, research of the game by John H. Conway led to the invention of the surreal numbers and contributed to development of combinatorial game theory (with Go Infinitesimals[1] being a specific example of its use in Go).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_and_mathematics[/quote]